Are CHP certified on identifying car frames?

Hi All,
I took my 1931 Ford to the CHP(California Highway Patrol) office for a VIN check. The officer proceeds to tell me that the VIN# is good and matches my registration but that my car really is not a 1931 Ford. It is a "special construction vehicle". So now there is a stop on my registration until I have the title changed from 1931 Ford to special construction vehicle. Are CHP really certified to tell the difference between every car frame?

Thanks,
Nazs

 

The answer is yes and no. They have gotten a little tougher in alot of states. Unless it's a bone stock all original 1931 ford they can pull that on you. In some states in years past it was subjective, the less that was what Henry sold it with the more likely they would deam it special construction, or modified. Did they tell you what year, it would be registered as, or if emmision equip would be required as special construction? The answer somewhere will probably involve money leaving your pocket and going into the states hand.

 

They always say that crap. At least they didn't want to impound it and tear it down for inspection. That's what they wanted to do with my Hawg in the '80s.

If you want it to remain a '31 hire an attorney. Or look for a cop that is hot rodder friendly to fill out your paperwork. That's my new answer for everyone's legal woes. Hire an attorney.

 

a good registration service is worth it's weight in gold

 

Can you take it to a different place and hope they see it your way?

 

well...is your car really a 31 Ford?

 

Where are you at in California?

 

look up ipartout chevys here on the HAMB. he's the man.

 

I use a private licensed inspection agent. She comes to the house, inspects the VIN numbers and fills out the form that I need for the DMV. Once that is done, none of the desk jockeys at the DMV can question anything else about the vehicle. If you let these guys start running you through the wringer you'll spend the rest of your days jumping through their hoops. CA is getting even more strict on emissions, etc. so if they can get your car registered as a "special construction" then they can have their way with you and you become subject to every and all of their new rules. Keep it registered as a 31 and you will avoid MUCHO headaches down the road. The person I use for VIN verifications is in Valley Center, if you are close then I could hook you up.

 

I am located in located in the San Fernando Valley(about 30 minutes north of down town Los Angeles). The body is definitely an original 1931 Ford. I was told that CHP was the only place I could go to for the VIN verification. I was unaware I had other choices. I just feel the CHP officer did more than what he was asked to do. Sounded like more of a vehicle inspection than just verifying the numbers to the registered title I have. Anyone have a place near me to go to?

Nazs

 

I found that I need to register a 36 ford at DMV. This in ca. looking around I noticed signs at the walk up windows in large print saying we are here to disrupt your life and as a bonus we don,t care what you have for paper work. In bright lettering the sign also said don,t feed the animals.
your government at work.

 

Who was it that "told" you the CHP was the only place you could go? If it was the DMV and they're asking for the CHP form (can't remember the form number right now) then yes, that is the only place you can go. If it was a buddy or someone else that told you that, they're wrong. If all you need is a standard VIN verification then most any registration service, AAA and even the DMV can do it, DMV wants the car to look like a car, not a pile of parts, so depending how far along your car is, the other options may be the best.

Also, you never mentioned what exactly you have? Is it a scratch built tube frame or what?

 

Based on your comment, I assume you are running a '32 or homebuilt frame under your car. If that is the case, where are your Model A vin numbers located? You indicated that he said the VIN # was good. What was he looking at? Henry put the numbers on the motor, trans, and frame. I would think that a state vehicle inspection officer would know where to look for the number and would call you on it if it were not in the correct location (such as on a firewall tag).

I'm curious because I have seen alot of Model A's on deuce frames that claim to be titled with an original model A title and I don't see how that is possible in most states that have 'special construction vehicle' provisions. Seems any Model A on an aftermarket, '32, or homebuilt frame would need to be titled as 'special construction'. Am I wrong?..I hope so.

 

As said already, a Registration Service is the only way to go! I had a SPCN Harley and with it registered as a 2000 SPCN (special construction) I in turn owned a 2000 vehicle.

I believe if you have a 2012 special construction vehicle, you will have to worry about smog, etc. Seems like a headache.

 

I am in the process of registering an original 1924 Dodge coupe,it now has a 318/904 combo so its not all original.Long story short went to DMV,was told that the vin must be verified,by CHP or DMV.The lady behind the counter said ,"do you have the car here?,I'll do it now".I am now trying to get it running to do just that.

 

AAA offices are also qualified to perform VIN verifications. Call in advance for an appointment, because they usually have only one individual on staff at each location certified to do them...

 

My bro is a CHP commercial vehicle inspector...he prob knows the guy you talked to...did you go to the CHP office off the Old. rd.?..i'm going to his house right now as a matter of fact..I'll ask him about it...

 

No offense to any of our fine HAMB members who are employed in the law enforcement community, but...

Police officers are "trained" to generate revenu.
By virtue of the fact that they are also human beings [and as such, tend to be lazy just like the rest of us], they will always choose the path of least resistance, as well as the path that makes them look good in the eyes of their supervisors.

If you show up and say "I want to title it as a 31", but it's easier [less paperwork] for him to send you down the specialty built path, you can bet that's what he's going to do... Also, if the specialty built route generates more revenu for the state, his supervisors are going to "encourage" him to send people down that path.

A good registration service, that knows all the little tricks and has the knowledge to hold the officer's feet to the fire is probably your best bet.

 

If you don't have an original Ford frame, he was correct to the letter of the law, and it sounds like he knew his stuff. It sounds like you got unlucky and got an officer that actually knew what he was talking about . Depending on how much paperwork, if any has been done, you could be stuck. If nothing has been done, join AAA and they can do the verify and usually don't know the difference as long as the number is right.
Is the VIN stamped in the frame a proper 31 VIN number?

 

all this .."Vin#" talk
on a 31 Ford?
No such thing

a "VIN#" didnt come out until the late 50's's early 80's was code changed, by its deffinition..

the numbers on the Ford Model A's were ..PRODUCTION NUMBERS..thats all

so by the cops use of the words VIN#..nada ..go back to school..bad cop no douhnut..

get a lawyer and fight it in court...,, because he's wrong..and so is anyone calling the Production number stamped on a frame of a Model A a VIN#..look up the definition of the VIN process and what its all about..tha A's production numbers give you nothing but a "place in line"...No paint codes, no interior codes, no accessory codes..etc..

if the cop didnt know this..than he sure as hell aint "certified" as far as im concerned

A Vehicle Identification Number, commonly abbreviated to VIN, is a unique serial number used by the automotive industry to identify individual motor vehicles. VINs were first used in 1954(that sure as hell leaves out your 31 model A dont it?). [1] From 1954 to 1981, there was no accepted standard for these numbers, so different manufacturers used different formats.

In 1981, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the United States standardized the format. [2] It required that all over-the-road-vehicles sold to contain a 17-character VIN, which do not include the letters I (i), O (o), or Q (q) (to avoid confusion with numerals 1 and 0).

Hey ..call it symantics or what ever..these people of all people should know what they are talking about , or they should step aside and let someone who knows WTF the deal is to do these jobs or why bother, amazes me who they will pin a badge on and give authority to.

 

it's doubtful he lifted the body in the chp parking lot....

which really is what makes this story funny, he told him his vin # (that model a's don't have, they have serial numbers) is OK but that his car isn't a 31. His body is a 31 so that means his frame isn't which is the only place a model A has any numbers, top of the frame UNDER the drivers side cowl

it's crazy how many times it has to be said to use a registration service, worth every penny, every time

 

I just did thisw last week,went to dmv got the request for a title or registration paper, filled it out with odometer reading vin etc, had a sherriff freind come over verify the vin went to dmv had to fill out a statement of facts paper and a bill of sale which i put down $100.00 and $123.00 later out the door with tags registration and a pink is on the way very easy to do! And my car is registered as a 31, just dont tell them the car is apart the less they know the better! Good luck

 

just did a online search for Vehicle Registration Service, San Fernando, CA and several came up including California Auto Registration 818-837-2207. likely other individuals too that you find by word of mouth-check with local Hot Rod shops,etc.

 

Not trying to be a smartass, but what is the point you are trying to get at. Call it whatever you want; VIN, Serial Number, Production Number, whatever. It is still the unique series of numbers/letters specific to that vehicle that ties the vehicle's paperwork back to the car itself. Are you trying to say that a Model A 'production' number is somehow less valid than a modern 'VIN'? And are there folks that have actually successfully argued this in court??

 

No..im just saying its not a VIN#..its a production number..

Not the same..still a valid #..Just not a Vin#

a Vin # tells you way more about a vehicle ..than a production number

A vin# was designed for way more information..so no, its not the same.

is a production number a valid number to use for registration..you dam becha..and has been..but it still aint a Vin#
And any cop that is entrusted to do this type of work should know the dam difference

I guess to put it in their words..Its not LEGALLY a Vin#..its legally a production number

 

Seems easy enough to handle... where i am stuck, is with the matter of determining what to use as a production number on a car with out its originals available? Case in point; vehicle is purchased with a bill of sale ONLY as an unfinished project model a sitting atop an aftermarket 32 frame, no ID tag on cowl and no frame numbers... where do i start from this point? A local friend suggested i copy his PN(also an A) and change a few numbers around then request info if any available from the DMV, if no records appear then basically stamp the frame with your new PN and proceed with the verification suggestions mentioned above(very helpful by the way). Is this viable, or is there a more "proper" way of doing so?

 

First thing I would do is find out the official definition of a "special construction vehicle" in CA. In Idaho they are cars with frames that have been manufactured by the owner or a bought frame like TCI, replaced with a frame from a differant model (S-10) etc. Most altered street cars are titled with a special construction title when frame clips and major alternations have been made to an untitled vehicle. With that standard set it takes the liability off the state for any safety factors if a title is issued to be such. They also title the car as the year it appears under original manufacture and body design. They used to title the car for the year it was completed until I pointed out to the director the problem of an officer trying to identify a 1990 Ford Model A Coupe under an APB search.

 

The state of California recognizes the original Production Number as a legal VIN number for titling and registration purposes within the State of California, so therefore it is a VIN number within the context of California law. The production number is the one stated under "VIN" on the title and registration papers in California.
From the California Vehicle Code:
V C Section 671 Vehicle Identification Number


<!-- English content start in DMV Template SingleField -->Vehicle Identification Number

<!-- #EndEditable --><!-- #BeginEditable "section_number" -->671<!-- #EndEditable -->. <!-- #BeginEditable "section_content" -->(a) A "vehicle identification number" is the motor number, serial number, or other distinguishing number, letter, mark, character, or datum, or any combination thereof, required or employed by the manufacturer or the department for the purpose of uniquely identifying a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part or for the purpose of registration.<!-- #EndEditable -->
<!-- #BeginEditable "addl_section_content" -->(b) Whenever a vehicle is constructed of component parts identified with one or more different vehicle identification numbers, the vehicle identification number stamped or affixed by the manufacturer or authorized governmental entity on the frame or unitized frame and body, as applicable, and as defined in Section 670.5, shall determine the identity of the vehicle for registration purposes.

And because the number was apparently in plain site, again he was correct in stating that it wasn't a 1931 Ford Frame.

Copying another number and then changing a few numbers randomly and hoping its a clear number has certainly been done in the past. But it is illegal, a felony in fact if you get caught and they want to pursue. This can surface years later if the real car that has the numbers that you substituted shows up, maybe it's currently in another state or isn't currently registered. Just something to think about.

 

Not saying "copying a friends number sequence and then change a couple to make a different vin/serial number" won't work, because I do know for a fact that it has been done. Problem is ... what happens (slim chance but ....) if someone pulls the real car holding that serial number out of someones garage and goes to register it? They will be able to verify that their car is real ... you just might be charged with fraud. Worth it? You decide.

 

What is the tag on the passenger side firewall that has Ford script on it that I have seen??