Are CHP certified on identifying car frames?

If you take a car to CA DMV (make a appointment) to verify a VIN you can't take a shell in there, it has to be in what they call a "startable condition" . I bought a 67 Camaro from a kid that was givin to him by another guy who bought the car from a swapmeet and all I had was a old pink slip and a I sold a car to this person wrote on a piece of paper. To make a long story short, I went to Auto Club where the first lady didn't have a clue what to do with the paperwork got sent to another window where this lady was lost what to do then a young guy came over looked at the paperwork and said file this forum and do this and that then pay this back fee and the paperwork was done with a no-op. Then Auto Club told me get the VIN checked by CHP or DMV then come back and finish the paperwork up. I made the appointment with DMV took the Camaro there (on a trailer) and the guy said if I bolted a front seat (no interior in it) in he would sign it off but the car has to be in a what they call a "startable condition", the car had been sitting behind a house for years with a motor and trans bolted in it so we're talking body, motor, trans and thats all. I made another appointment bolted in a front seat and took it back to DMV but the guy who does the inspections was out sick. Made another appointment and got another inspector who said no way he's signing it off. We went round and round with me saying the first guy said bolt in a seat and it's good to go and this guy saying that guy never said that, in the end he signed it off and I got my new pink slip but what a hassle. On this Camaro the previous owner cut the dash out of it to make a race car but on a 67 Camaro the VIN is on the door jam and not on the dash (next year Camaro had them on the dash) if it was a 68 or later Camaro with the dash cut out I would've walked away from it knowing good luck trying to get it legal.

 

It wouldn't work in my state because any out-of-state titled cars MUST be inspected before license and registration is issued. When the inspector sees the VIN on the title and frame do not match, he'll send you away. Before he does, he'll run a check on both the VIN on the title and the VIN on the frame..if either come up stolen, you are charged with car theft.
It sounds like California has adopted this same procedure.
Make sure your VIN on the paperwork and the frame's VIN are the same.
In my state, if you don't have a title, you don't get a title, license or registration...you cannot drive your car on the street.
If you have a Nebraska title, you don't have to have your car inspected. Just glide through DMV when getting an old NE title transfered to your name.

 

Phew!! Very enlightening! Guess my outta state Buick will Not be inspected by CHP.
Hello AAA.

 

I bought my coupe body in Utah, and it came with a Utah assigned title with a Utah VIN and a tag that they permanently attached in the driver's door jamb. When I went to register it here in NV after it was driveable, I have to get a VIN inspection (make sure the title # matches the car#), and the inspector supervisor for that particular DMV said that my car was a Constructed Vehicle, and not a Model A, and told me I had to get to a safety inspection, gave me a hard time about no wiper, and said I had to get an emissions exemption at the DMV lab or get a smog. So, I jumped through all there hoops, got the exemption (my engine is pre-68, so no smog needed at least), came back with the paperwork, and my wiper installed, and the guy said I needed TWO wipers now, and had to gte it re-safety inspected. I just figured he would find something else the next time I came back, so I went to a different DMV, and they agreed that it was a constructed vehicle, but I didn't need a safety since I had a clear title, and the car had a VIN assigned, all I needed was the smog exemption. I was in and out within 1/2 hour, and got my plates and title in the mail pretty quick. A lot of BS at the DMV anywhere is just caused by people being difficult because they can, and if you get one of the cool people it goes super smooth.

 

I think I will buy a horse from now on...

 

Might still need a "brand inspection"!

 

I have probably registered a dozen pre-1955 cars & motorcycles, in California, in the last 10 years and have never had a serious issue. I highly recommend a Vehicle Verifier and I can provide contacts. Once you go to the DMV, there is no going back. You have set the wheels in motion and you'll probably end up talking to a VIN Officer at the CHP. Another thing, be prepared, have all your paper work organized and legible. Forms are available online from the DMV. If your '30 Ford has been titled and registered, out of state, as "Special Construction" then dont expect a miracle that you can register it as a Model A. If you are building a Hot Rod and you have a Model A body with a correct title and a aftermarket frame/powerplant, it's still possible to have it titled and registered in Ca as a "Model A". Even restorers will restamp the original engine number, (S/N), on the frame, normally on the bottom of the driver's side frame rail below the original stamping, aft of the 1st body hole. And please, no comments about the legality, if a CHP Officer accepts it who am I to argue. No one once to see you lift the body off the frame for verification when a mirror & flashlight will suffice. I have also seen S/N's, near where the battery is located, on top of the center crossmember. Dont show up with a modern metal tag screwed or rivited to the door jamb or edge and expect a Officer, Verifier or DMV rep to think this is a 1930's production practice. They're not that stupid.........well, not all of them anyway. Do your research, be prepared and be polite and, if you can, pay the couple hundred bucks for a licensed/bonded private Vehicle Verifier. They can save you a lot of time and headaches.

 

This bullshit is going on everywhere right now!!....The problem is with alot of these older cars is the computer is finally catching up with us....example take a 1932 ford that was parted out 40 years ago, the serial number was in 3 places on it...frame, motor and transmission case......Now a guy in texas has the original motor, A guy in Oregan has the trans case and a guy in Missouri has the frame....All three are building a 1932 ford and have collected aftermarket parts for their project.....Each state has diffrent laws about how to obtain a title using a original serial number...But it can be done in every state.......So now we have 3 diffrent cars out there all with the same serial number....Which was fine 10 years ago....But now that the computer has come along and states are joining systems to help prevent auto theft.....Now I ask you this? which one of those guys is intitled to be able to use the original Serial number??....This whole Deal is a big mess!!....And the truth is the law enforcment doesn't really know what to do about it other than assign state issued Aftermarket Vin numbers......I have seen stuff like this happen for years, Guys sell there original frame and build a aftermarket frame and stamp there number on it....Well what they don't realize is when they sold the original frame with the original serial number on it...They just sold their car, Now legally all they own is a bunch of parts...And another thing is I see this at the shows all the time, Guys will have their serial number stamped on one of those lil aftermarket tags you can buy for 2 bucks in the catalogs or swapmeet......THAT DON"T MEAN SHIT!! AND IT SURE AS HELL IS NOT LEGAL!!.......People need to get it through their head That restamping a Serial number or VIN number IS ILLEGAL!!..AND IS A FELONY!!.....IF you do not believe me, I can give you the names of a few guys at the levenworth correctional building, Just ask them.....The judge explained it to them right before they were sentenced.......Does it happen everyday?...Yes.....Does everyone get away with it?....NO......The bad thing is that the states do not give us many options when building a hot rod.......They want to treat us like crooks, And put us through so much bullshit just to get a title That it makes it not fun, So we look for ways around that.....I mean, I do not know about you But I am not putting a Cadlic convertor on My hotrod.....LOL.........One of the biggest problems that has made the states crack down hard on us is Guys building a 30-50K car and buying a 300.00 title and cheating the state out of thousands of dollars in sales taxes......It is because of all that money that the state is really leaning on us.....

One other thing is if the DMV is giving you a hard time, Try Going to another one in your area before you let them just bend you over.....As there seems to be no set laws, every county has some barney Fif Who thinks they know it all, And it is not the same thing the other one says.....Same state Same laws but One will help you and the other won't.....At least that has been my experience anyhow...

 

In Indiana, when you register a vehicle (any vehicle, new or old) that was purchased out of state, someone from the BMV has to come outside and verify the VIN and make sure it matches what's on the title. I've bought a few cars out of state, so I'm pretty used to it.

When I went to register my '70 Chevy C10 pickup, they looked through the windshield and didn't see a VIN on the dash where they are on newer cars, so they asked where they could find it on the truck. Now I knew they could find it on the metal plate in the door jamb or somewhere on the frame rail in the engine bay, but just for kicks I told them that I knew it was on the sticker on the inside of the glovebox door. The VIN is there, but obviously all a person would have to do is swap a glovebox door (or even print their own sticker) to switch VINs between vehicles...but it was good enough for them, and I got my registration.

 

Since the car is an out of state car it needs to be vin inspected. That way they can verify the title matches the car. The inspection can take place two places. One is when you go to the dmv they will defer you to OSP for an inspection, that is where most run into problems. The other way is if you have a good relationship with someone with a dmv dealers license, they can do the vin inspection and run it through like they got the car, inspected it and sold it to you. You never step foot in the dmv this way and you get a temporary registration and title shows up shortly.

 

Use a registration service, it's worth the forty bucks, don't register it as a special construction vehicle, they can later come back and make you smog it.

 

Once you have one of the state issued smog exemptions , you covered . I don't know where you got your info , but according to my DMV source that's why they give out exemptions .

 

all this .."Vin#" talk
on a 31 Ford?
No such thing

a "VIN#" didnt come out until the late 50's's early 80's was code changed, by its deffinition..

the numbers on the Ford Model A's were ..PRODUCTION NUMBERS..thats all

so by the cops use of the words VIN#..nada ..go back to school..bad cop no douhnut..

get a lawyer and fight it in court...,, because he's wrong..and so is anyone calling the Production number stamped on a frame of a Model A a VIN#..look up the definition of the VIN process and what its all about..tha A's production numbers give you nothing but a "place in line"...No paint codes, no interior codes, no accessory codes..etc..

if the cop didnt know this..than he sure as hell aint "certified" as far as im concerned

A Vehicle Identification Number, commonly abbreviated to VIN, is a unique serial number used by the automotive industry to identify individual motor vehicles. VINs were first used in 1954(that sure as hell leaves out your 31 model A dont it?). [1] From 1954 to 1981, there was no accepted standard for these numbers, so different manufacturers used different formats.

In 1981, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the United States standardized the format. [2] It required that all over-the-road-vehicles sold to contain a 17-character VIN, which do not include the letters I (i), O (o), or Q (q) (to avoid confusion with numerals 1 and 0).

Hey ..call it symantics or what ever..these people of all people should know what they are talking about , or they should step aside and let someone who knows WTF the deal is to do these jobs or why bother, amazes me who they will pin a badge on and give authority to.


Sorry Von rigg but every car in CA need a Vehicle Identification Number regardless of the vehicles year.

 

Please clarify...the car was purchased on a bill of sale and WITHOUT TITLE in CA. and with the frame numbers unreadable, as the frame was junk, so there is no way to verify a non-existent California title to this car. I wonder what the possibility is of using the numbers from the 63 Oregon title as the new VIN if the title clears records?

 

Then how is my '32 Ford registered with only the "production" #?

You contradict yourself in your post.

 

All vehicles with original production numbers are registered and titled using that number in Ca. & most other states. For DMV purposes it's used as your VIN, it's the law. This was already covered in this thread many times. If you get caught without an original body and frame, then you will loose that number and be assigned a new number and retitled with a special construction title.

 

Maybe you'd better call Austin.
Larry T

 

I know, Vandy. It was rhetorical.

 

Sorry but you are WRONG, at least for the state of California. Tis is the LAW and definition that is used, regardless of previous changes to Serial numbers VINS or anything else.

From the California Vehicle Code:
V C Section 671 Vehicle Identification Number

<!-- English content start in DMV Template SingleField -->Vehicle Identification Number

<!-- #EndEditable --><!-- #BeginEditable "section_number" -->671<!-- #EndEditable -->. <!-- #BeginEditable "section_content" -->(a) A "vehicle identification number" is the motor number, serial number, or other distinguishing number, letter, mark, character, or datum, or any combination thereof, required or employed by the manufacturer or the department for the purpose of uniquely identifying a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part or for the purpose of registration.<!-- #EndEditable -->
<!-- #BeginEditable "addl_section_content" -->(b) Whenever a vehicle is constructed of component parts identified with one or more different vehicle identification numbers, the vehicle identification number stamped or affixed by the manufacturer or authorized governmental entity on the frame or unitized frame and body, as applicable, and as defined in Section 670.5, shall determine the identity of the vehicle for registration purposes.

 

Never did i say it didnt..I think i have been extreamly mis-understood in my posts on this thread..so, im no further going to justify or explain myself..I got mine, you'll can figure it out on your own

 

---------------------
So, besides getting your paperwork squared
away and copacetic, did you end up getting
the 300 lb. DMV clerk too??? C'mon, fess
up. Inquiring minds *need* to know! LOL!


Mart3406
=====================

 

Let me just clear something up here.....Von Rigg Fink post is basicly correct, the production number was stamped on a small tag on the body..(and means nothing)...And the serial number was stamped on the frame, motor and sometimes on the transmission case....the body production number was for fords count and means nothing as far as idenifying the car.....But the serial number that was stamped on the frame and motor and sometimes on the trans was used to idenify the car....As I said in a previous post.....When you have a hotrod that has a homebuilt frame from new tubing, and has a late model motor and transmission in it......just because it has a real model A body on it and you have a model A title.....legally You can not use it....As when you got rid of the parts that had the original serial numbers on them, you got rid of the car......everything else is nothing more than parts.....Law says you can not alter a serial or Vin number, if you do it voilds the title.....So when you changed the frame and stamped your vin on the new one, You altered it, thus voiding your title....It is the same deal on harleys made before 1970.....people don't realize that according to the law the only part of the bike that really is the bike is the left engine case, As it has the numbers on it.....If you sell the left engine case You just sold your bike!!...Everything else on it is nothing more than parts....