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Old 08-09-2011, 07:53 AM   #1
tlmartin84
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Default Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I know cliffords and offy make tons of parts for these engines. I've heard clifford's is overpriced.

I am specifically looking at the intakes. Cliffords offers a Weber Dual Carb setup, how much advantage would the dual carb have over lets say an offy intake with one single 4bbl carb (assuming the combined two barrels equal the same cfm's of one 4 barrel, making it a matter of distribution)?

Price wise the Clifford setup is around 1400. While the offy setup is closer to 600.

I'm also looking at boring it over, decking the head, MAYBE larger valves, and a camshaft upgrade.

Any other reccomendations would be great. Also any good 300 performance part supplier information would be good as well.

I have been to fordsix and that forum doesn't stay nearly as busy as this one.
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Check out Inliners International. Several years ago there was an article in theit 12 port news about cutting ford V8 head and rewelding the pieces for a 300" six.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The first question you need to answer is what do you want the motor to do. Once that is answered, you can start looking at what manifold will best fit your application. I run a Offy 4 bbl dual plane manifold on my 300. But then it is a truck motor and I built it for pulling, not racing. The single plane manifolds by both Clifford and Offy are designed for higher rpm applications. However, the big sticking point is the head. The 300 head needs a ton of work to get it to flow well enough to take full advantage of a big single plane intake.

Boring the block to 4.05 opens up alot of piston options. That is the same bore size as standard Ford FE series 360, 390, and 410 engines.

Decking is good, It never hurts to bring the compression up, just keep an eye on your clearances.

I run a Comp 270H cam in my 300, it has great low end torque and pulls good through the rpm range (only 4500 rpm, as the head gets pretty wheezy after that).

Lots of guys have built great 300's here on the HAMB, stay tuned and I am sure more will chime in. While your waiting, read the rules and go do an introduction.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

^ Listen to this man.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

This is going to be a driver, occasional fun. I still want something that lopes a little at idle and has plenty of getup and go when I need it (be fun to watch the guys in these 5.0 and 4.6 mustangs faces when I leave em at the light). Something that also gets decent mileage when I'm just cruisin on the freeway (18mpg would be nice but some of that I will take care of with gearing).

Frozen Merc what do you get mileage wise with your setup? Any Idea?

Also where do you all stop redlining your engines at? Im thinking 1800 would be a good cruising RPM on the 300, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Oh about the head, I'm getting conflicting info from cliffords.....they say not to port or polish the heads, that with this motor its about velocity of air versus volume.

Whats up with that? I was kind of stunned to hear that because first thing to pickup power through a head is to port and polish them.

The only logical sense that I can make from it is that the faster the air is moving the better chance it has to fill the 1 and 6 cylinders?
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

FrozenMerc knows his poo. The key to your question was "MAYBE larger valves". If you are not willing to step up to some high dollar head work, then accept the engine for what it is and build your self a 4800 rpm torquer. An open plenum single plane intake would only work against you.
You and your ride will both be happier.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Chubby I'm a little confused. You are saying an open plenum single plane is best for a torquer not for higher revs?

I very well may spend some money on head work, but I don't think I will need anything over 4800...... I'd just like some thump off the line....and good mileage after that

And don't forget looks.....A dual carb set up is SEXY.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I get 17-18 mpg with my 300 and an AOD behind it installed in a very un-aerodynamic truck. It will pull down to the 13-14 mpg range with an open car trailer behind it. 1800-2200 is a great cruising rpm range (60 to 65 mph).

I see no harm in doing some porting and polishing work. However, be careful. There is a bunch of back yard mechanics that have taken a die grinder to a head or 2 and had absolutely no performance gain to show for it in the end. I would recommend a light cleaning up of the bowl area around the valve stems and a gasket match. Anything else for a street motor is probably unwarranted. Remember, a street motor will spend 90% of its life below 3000 rpms, where porting is not necessary.

A set of headers, bumping the compression up to around 9.0 or 9.5:1, Offy Dual Plane, a good cam, and a 500 cfm 4 bbl will have you running circles around 5.0's in no time.

Good Luck
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

You mentioned boring it over to accept 390 pistons. I will probably bore it over as it is a high mileage engine. Are the wrist pins the same? Can I use the stock rods or is there something better on the market?

A 390 piston is taller than the original of a 300, correct? That in turn with light decking should raise the compression up considerable?

I apologize for the questions but this is the first motor I've ever rebuilt/built (except for a stock rebuild on a pinto motor in HS). And it's going in my 56. I just want to do it once and do it right. While I'm sure there will be more cars to come in my future, this is the one I want to do once and have forever.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
Chubby I'm a little confused. You are saying an open plenum single plane is best for a torquer not for higher revs?

I very well may spend some money on head work, but I don't think I will need anything over 4800...... I'd just like some thump off the line....and good mileage after that

And don't forget looks.....A dual carb set up is SEXY.
Just read what I wrote. An open plenum single plane intake will only work against you. (I understood it perfectly)

A dual plane is what you want. A really lopey "thumpin" idle is NOT going to help your milage, but I do really like em.

Engine building is like many other things- you can get any thing you want, but you can't have every thing you want.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I'm tracking now Chubby. Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Guy's? What about the later heads on the EFI 300's? I read online that they are a better head/flow better than the earlier heads? Fact, or someones opinion?
(I'm flipping a "mental coin" between a 300-6 or 302 for my F100)

Thanks gents!
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I've been flipping that same coin.......

I'm into the sixes all the way. Problem is I got a 302 sitting here, doesn't make good economical sense not to use it. But I'm gonna part it out and go for the six. Like I said earlier sixes are long lean and SEXY.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:37 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
I've been flipping that same coin.......

I'm into the sixes all the way. Problem is I got a 302 sitting here, doesn't make good economical sense not to use it. But I'm gonna part it out and go for the six. Like I said earlier sixes are long lean and SEXY.
It's tough doing what makes sense. I have 2-302's sitting in the garage, one thats a runner on a stand, and one thats already IN the effie. (Condition unknown) and I'm still thinking six, JUST because when you pop the hood it's something different.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:59 AM   #16
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Ak Miller did a lot with the 300. I don't know where to send you to look for it. Ak told me when he was still around. He liked turbo on propane. Made good HP and torque.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:14 AM   #17
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

What the hell is this "economic sense" crap? Economic sense is a nice used 4 cyl Ranger. We are Hot Rodders. Stand tall, ride low, go fast, and damn the economic sense!
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

How about Smokey Yunick and his "homogenizer"? He got 450 hp out of an iron duke. He said he it would be worthless on a 350 as it would make too much hp. Wish I had kept the article.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

homogenizer

http://books.google.com/books?id=qq6...ed=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The later efi head is better flowing than the carb head, but not much. However the efi manifolds (exhaust and intake) is were the real gains were made. If a person was dead set on keeping an exhuast manifold instead of header, the late model efi manifold is the way to go.

Pistons:
This is were a little research is required. There a large number of FE Ford pistons out there. All with different compression heights, profiles, etc. Part of the reason they work is that the 300 shares the same stroke as the 410 and 428 FE's (3.98").

Engine---Deck Height---Compression Height---Rod Length
300------10.00"---------1.757"------------------6.21"
352------10.17"---------1.836"------------------6.54"
360------10.17"---------1.836" or 1.775"-------6.54" (Some truck 360's ran 390 pistons to lower compression)
390------10.17"---------1.775"------------------6.49"
410------10.17"---------1.675"------------------6.49"

Piston Deck Clearance = Deck Height - (Stroke*0.5+Rod Length) - Comp. Height

Using that Equation
Piston Deck Clearance on a 300 = 0.043", 300 with 390 slugs = 0.015"

Basically, you should get a nice bump in compression by using stock 390 pistons in your 300, as the 390 pistons will sit 0.028" higher in the hole. I think the pins are the same diameter, however I may be wrong on that. Bottom line, Search around. There was a number of different FE's built that all used different shaped pistons. Plus there is a huge aftermarket supply for the FE's and a number of companies making different and custom pistons. You should be able to find something that will work well.
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Last edited by FrozenMerc; 08-25-2011 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Either the single 4V or the 2 x 2s will work fine on the street. I like the looks of multiple carbs.







Nobody makes a DUAL PLANE intake for the 300. Offy makes a DUAL PORT intake, but I am not convinced it is any better than either their single plane or the single plane Clifford, which both perform about the same.

I recommend the EFI cast exhaust manifolds on the street as their performance is comparable to headers without the headaches.

I recommend hypereutectic pistons instead of cast pistons with internal expansion struts. The stock pistons are prone to cracking.

Replace the fiber timing gears with metal ones.

Bowl blending and general port clean up makes a big improvement in these engines.

A larger intake valve and / or Chevy rocker arms from a 250 / 292 will help.

The head from a carbed engine will flow better than an EFI head due to the valve shrouding on the EFI head, but the fast-burn characteristics make the EFI head a better choice for best fuel economy. The carbed head is also easier to modify for Chevy rockers.

Love those 300s.

www.fordsix.com
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Frozen Merc, thanks for the dimensions I was actually getting ready to ask if any of you had any clearances..... gives me a starting point for decking the head.

These motors all have pressed in head studs, are those sufficient or should they be yanked and threaded head bolts used?

As far as economic sense......if you have plenty of jack economics means nothing, when your poor you gotta put yah needs first, and wants second.....that being said I will probably still drop quite a few of unecessary dimes to hop up the six.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Cliffords say that they deck a 300 head 60 thousandths, but that doesn't jive with deck height that you show Merc (I'm not disputing you because I have found the same specs you quoted other places). My machinist also told me that he thought 60 thousandths sounded like quite a bit.

Are the guys at Cliffords blowing smoke or what?
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Short of a billet head, blower, or turbo, the biggest power increase for this engine is an aluminum Boss 351 derived head. At one time people made them by cutting and welding V-8 heads. Someone eventually made a casting that eliminated the need for all that work. I assume those heads are still available. If not, enough looking could probably find one.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:39 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by GassersGarage View Post
How about Smokey Yunick and his "homogenizer"? He got 450 hp out of an iron duke. He said he it would be worthless on a 350 as it would make too much hp. Wish I had kept the article.
I'm reading up on this and sitting here scratching my head wondering why in the crap someone is not producing these for the auto market today?

Not to be a conspiracy theorist but automakers and oil companies have to be working hand and hand. 50's model engines getting upwards of 20mpg's and with all the technology today (granted emissions plays a part) but the same displacement engine has worse fuel mileage........
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Frenchtown Flyer drag races the 300 so he is THE MAN to offer suggestions on a street 300. He knows what works and what doesn't.
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Old 08-11-2011, 06:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Frenchtown Flyer:
The intake made from the FI intake,, How did that perform? Seem an interesting project compared to buying the two by two from Clifford. Any background info?

Thanks:
Paul T
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Old 08-11-2011, 06:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

i have a 300 out of a 85 bronco, i did the offy intake, pacesetter's headers plus a basic tune up. the 300 ran considerably better. what do you plan on using for a trans? a manual is the only way, the 300 shares the same bolt pattern as the 289, 302 and 351 w so i believe you can use a Tremec trans.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I may try to go with a T5, however Ive also been told M5OD-R2 will work, and the f150(likely be a donor for me from a late 80's early 90's) had a five speed as well. I think it had a granny gear in it. Anyone have any idea what model that tranny or any other tranny that will bolt to a 300 is please post them.........
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:24 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The one pictured belongs to a friend. I built a similar one with three Holley carbs on an engine that made 365 rear wheel horsepower.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:27 PM   #31
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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I may try to go with a T5, however Ive also been told M5OD-R2 will work, and the f150(likely be a donor for me from a late 80's early 90's) had a five speed as well. I think it had a granny gear in it. Anyone have any idea what model that tranny or any other tranny that will bolt to a 300 is please post them.........
The 5 speed manual 300's came with the M5OD-R2. Hydraulic clutch. Hurst makes a shifter for them.

There ratios are 3.92/2.25/1.50/1.00/0.80.

There are other versions of the M5OD, but the R2 is the F-150/Bronco version.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

What type of speedometer does that m50d R2. I had an 00' F150 rebuilt and I know the dash was all electronic in it...........Thing that sucks is I sold that truck right after I had the tranny rebuilt. Would love to that thing back.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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What type of speedometer does that m50d R2. I had an 00' F150 rebuilt and I know the dash was all electronic in it...........Thing that sucks is I sold that truck right after I had the tranny rebuilt. Would love to that thing back.
Pretty sure it's elec.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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What type of speedometer does that m50d R2. I had an 00' F150 rebuilt and I know the dash was all electronic in it...........Thing that sucks is I sold that truck right after I had the tranny rebuilt. Would love to that thing back.
The stock M5R2 came with an electronic speedo, but it is the same fitting and gear drive as most Ford Trans. So a cable unit from many earlier Ford trans will work. I replaced the '65 3spd+OD (from a Galaxie) with an M5R2 in my '51, and the speedo unit worked fine in both trans. In fact, that speedo unit also worked in the 4 spd New Process 435 ('81 F250) that the 3 spd replaced.

The M5R2 is a great trans, good ratios, nice short shift pattern, and reasonably strong. It's biggest down fall is that the bellhousing isn't separate (Think AOD or C6 auto). This means it will only bolt up to Windsor and Cleveland V8's or the 240 / 300 sixes.
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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The stock M5R2 came with an electronic speedo, but it is the same fitting and gear drive as most Ford Trans. So a cable unit from many earlier Ford trans will work. I replaced the '65 3spd+OD (from a Galaxie) with an M5R2 in my '51, and the speedo unit worked fine in both trans. In fact, that speedo unit also worked in the 4 spd New Process 435 ('81 F250) that the 3 spd replaced.

The M5R2 is a great trans, good ratios, nice short shift pattern, and reasonably strong. It's biggest down fall is that the bellhousing isn't separate (Think AOD or C6 auto). This means it will only bolt up to Windsor and Cleveland V8's or the 240 / 300 sixes.
Just a note while I think of it ..Last paragraph above..I think the M5R2 may be able to bolt behind a flathead [8ba] using an adaptor plate made for a C4 auto as the bolt patterns are the same..
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I really love the DOHC valve cover.

Back in the day, there was a guy in Detroit, I think, that would cut up three 351C heads and the reassemble and furnace braze various pieces to make a 300-6 head. These were legal and lethal in NHRA.

Wonder if they ever made one out of aluminum?
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

There was/is a very high dollar race only cylinder head that was built by Alan Johnson for the 300's. It didn't have any water jackets. And I think it cost over $10K not including the valve train parts. Here's the link scroll to the bottom of the page. http://www.alanjohnsonperformance.co...nderheads.html
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:49 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Quote:
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Just a note while I think of it ..Last paragraph above..I think the M5R2 may be able to bolt behind a flathead [8ba] using an adaptor plate made for a C4 auto as the bolt patterns are the same..
If you're thinking of the Speedway adapter, I've had the same thought.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:26 PM   #39
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I've got a brand new cross flow head that can be bought REAL right if your interested

Tony
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:52 PM   #40
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Subscribed. Good info.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #41
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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I've got a brand new cross flow head that can be bought REAL right if your interested

Tony
Well how about some pics and more info?
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:52 PM   #42
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Well how about some pics and more info?
I'm out of the shop till Monday,
I can when I get back

Tony
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:17 AM   #43
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Just a note while I think of it ..Last paragraph above..I think the M5R2 may be able to bolt behind a flathead [8ba] using an adaptor plate made for a C4 auto as the bolt patterns are the same..
I have thought about that as well, as I have both that adaptor and an M5R2. I suppose you would also have to put a spacer the same thickness as the adaptor between the flywheel and crankshaft flange in order to get the input shaft to ride in the pilot bushing correctly, and the starter to line up correctly. Should be fairly easy to do.
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:10 AM   #44
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Back in the day, there was a guy in Detroit, I think, that would cut up three 351C heads and the reassemble and furnace braze various pieces to make a 300-6 head. These were legal and lethal in NHRA.

Wonder if they ever made one out of aluminum?
That was Steve Ambrose, Bob Huettman, and Ray Argenta. I worked with Steve and knew Bob. Maybe they used iron heads at one point. I only know of them using aluminum heads to do what you mentioned. Per my previoius post, someone eventually made a casting, eliminating the need for welding together sectioned heads.

As of a year or so ago they were still racing a 300, but a few years ago they went to a billet head. Although not streetable, the billet head makes more power than the production based head ever could.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:05 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Steve and Bob are still racing their seven second altered. Ray passed away a few years ago.

The problem with using V8 cylinder head sections - aside from all the welding headaches - is that the bore centers on the 300 (4.480") are different from all Ford small block V8s (4.380"). Unless a head is built from SIX individual head sections the combustion chambers will not be perfectly aligned with the cylinder bores. A small offsetr of .050" can mean a huge difference in flow in any given cylinder.

At any rate this discussion has strayed far from the original posters query of how to build a good street driven 300. Forget the troublesome, hybrid heads for a job like that.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:08 AM   #46
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Does anyone besides cliffords offer a bolt on dual carb intake for a 300??? I haven't found anything from offy.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

40 years ago I ran an H/G Anglia with a 310 Ford 6 in it. I had good luck at the time with a Holman Moody intake and a 600 Holley but they might be tough to find now. I used a Lakewood 302 bellhousing with a 428 Mustang top loader 4 speed behind mine. I highly recommend a good after market harmonic balancer that wasnt available back then. I had a hard time keeping the flywheel from loosening up. Tried extra dowels, locktite, safety wire, nothing worked for more then 6 runs. But this was a drag car, not a street car. Today Id use a C4 behind one
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:46 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I used to race a 300 dirt track car......
Like others have said you can bore it to 4.05 and use the 390 slugs with full floating wrist pins. My block was good so I kept the stock bore and used 351W 4 barrel (flat tops) pistons. I think 69 Mustang was the only time a 351W 4 barrel engine was offered until the 351HO came out in the 80's. Anyway, I used the cheap cast pistons from Warshaski's (think JC Whitney), and SBC Total seal rings.
Light porting and polishing, opened up the bowls, put in bigger SBC valves. Solid lifter Crane cam. Don't recall the specs but 284 duration comes to mind.
I had stock rods and used a steel crank from an industrial engine. Don't recall what carb I used but it was under carbed. If I was running one now I'd use a 650...on the track. You won't need that much for the street. Seems I had both Clifford and Offy manifolds but I can't remember which one was better.
I ran a stock Ford electronic ignition with the advance plate welded up. That ignition set up ran out of rpm's around 5800 which was fine with me because that's about the limit for stock rods.

Some (maybe all?) 240's had a closed chamber head that will give you more compression.

The aluminum cross flow head was pricey back in the day. Around 1990 they were selling for $5400 bare!
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:16 PM   #49
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

A stock crank and rods should be fine with the 390 pistons, headwork, and intake. Or would you guy swap out the rods for aftermarket?
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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I have thought about that as well, as I have both that adaptor and an M5R2. I suppose you would also have to put a spacer the same thickness as the adaptor between the flywheel and crankshaft flange in order to get the input shaft to ride in the pilot bushing correctly, and the starter to line up correctly. Should be fairly easy to do.
I would think that "if" the above adaptor [for c4 behind 8ba] requires a 289/302 flexplate then the 300" flywheel [or a 289/302/351 v8 "0" bal] flywheel with same tooth count would mount the same way [adaptor or?]to the 8ba crank..Just have to figure pilot bearing, depth and id to suit the trans..I think it would be slick, and Ford [sorta]..
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:35 PM   #51
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Does anyone besides cliffords offer a bolt on dual carb intake for a 300??? I haven't found anything from offy.
No. If you want multiple carbs you either have to build or modify your own or roll the dice and spend $400-$500 buying the intake from Cliffords. And hope you get it! If things haven't changed recently they will charge your credit card the day you order the parts. But they take a week to 6 months to ship the parts out. So if you order from them good luck!




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Originally Posted by Pops1532 View Post

Some (maybe all?) 240's had a closed chamber head that will give you more compression.

The aluminum cross flow head was pricey back in the day. Around 1990 they were selling for $5400 bare!

All the 240 heads have the smaller closed chambers ( 68cc ) compared to the carbed 300's 76cc. Swapping a 240 head onto a carbed 300 is good for a .5 bump in the compression ratio. So if you have a 300 that has around a 8.5:1 compression the 240 head will bump it up to 9.0:1.

They don't have the head listed in the price list so I don't know if he still sells them. But unless you have very deep pockets or race them professionally I can't see spending $10,000+ for a bare cylinder head!!





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A stock crank and rods should be fine with the 390 pistons, headwork, and intake. Or would you guy swap out the rods for aftermarket?

Yes they will be fine unless you plan to run some really high rpms. Just go with some ARP rod bolts in the stock rods and you will be good to go. If you are really worried have the rod beams polished and have the rods shot-peended.

I don't like 390 pistons for a 300. Boring the block .050" over just to run 390 pistons is a bad idea in my opinion. When boring the block I don't like to remove any more material then necessary. I prefer the 351W piston option. But they require you to bush the rods down to the .912" piston pin diameter if you have 68 or newer rods. But to me that's a better choice then the 390 pistons.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:22 PM   #52
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Anyone kept tabs of mileage after they bored theres over? I don't think 5 thousandths is going to kill the life of it....but maybe I'm wrong???
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Its fifty thousandths with the 390 slugs - not five. And I agree with Fordman75, thats a lot to take out. My el cheapo choice would be the 352 piston (4.000) with about .050 taken off the tops, using the stock rods.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:48 AM   #54
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Yeah that 5 was sposed to be 50, I was in a hurry, typo on my part...... So this brings me back to what I originally thought about doing, leaving the pistons stock(maybe an upgrade to aftermarket pistons). and shaving the head 60 thousandths like cliffords performance reccommends to up the compression.

Any drawbacks to shaving the head besides clearance issues with the valves.

Don't guys bore engines over quite frequently for rebuilds?
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Old 08-25-2011, 06:04 AM   #55
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

French,

I've been looking at your post on ford six about building these. When going with the 352 pistons and shaving the top off, is there any issues with burning through the tops of the pistons?

Thanks
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:59 AM   #56
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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French,

I've been looking at your post on ford six about building these. When going with the 352 pistons and shaving the top off, is there any issues with burning through the tops of the pistons?

Thanks
0.050" won't affect them. The tops of those pistons will be quite thick. For a street motor, Silvolite makes a good and reasonably priced 352 slug. You won't even remove the valve clearance pockets completely at 0.050". It would be a good idea to re-balance the rotating assembly after the pistons are machined though.

Typically I will only bore an engine if it is needed due to cylinder wall wear, damage, etc. The 352 pistons are a good option, there is just less choices available.

Here is a quick pic of the said slug (+ 0.030) right before I put them into a 352. These are 9.5:1 pistons in a 352 with 72 cc heads.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:04 PM   #57
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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French,

I've been looking at your post on ford six about building these. When going with the 352 pistons and shaving the top off, is there any issues with burning through the tops of the pistons?

Thanks
no, none.

As far as shaving the head, I prefer to cut the block as a smaller cut is needed for any given reduction in ccs. No, there will not be any valve clearance issues with milling/decking as the valves clear the pistons by about .300 with the stock cam. You may have to make up custom length pushrods though. I recommend you make up a checking jig like this to get all the valvetrain perfect the first time:









Here's a 352 piston, CNC cut, ready to go in a low-buck bracket race motor:







Some vestigal dome was left on this set for around 11:1 CR. Of course you can just flat turn off .050 to give you about 10.5 CR without all that milling/decking of the block / head nonsense.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:32 PM   #58
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Guys, I have found an 83 F150 with a 300 and four speed for 700$. What type of transmission is it, got any ideas? Whats the odds of an 83 having AC?
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:00 PM   #59
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Guys, I have found an 83 F150 with a 300 and four speed for 700$. What type of transmission is it, got any ideas? Whats the odds of an 83 having AC?

There were 3 different types of 4spds in 83 Ford trucks.

1.NP435 ( Grany low 1st )
2. Borg Warner T-18 ( also has a grany low 1st gear )
3. There was also a 3 spd with OD I don't remember what it was called. Maybe a SROD? It was very strong.

The NP435 and T-18 are nearly bullet proof. The biggest issues you run into with them are the shifters can get sloppy on high mileage units and the synchros get worn and it can be more difficult to shift and down shift. The NP435 is my personal favorite transmission.



The 83 was available with or without A/C so it's a coin toss.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:35 PM   #60
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Can the transmissions with the granny gear be re-geared..........
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:40 PM   #61
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Didn't Ford use a 4 speed OD tranny based on the top loader 4 speed during that time?
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:00 PM   #62
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Didn't Ford use a 4 speed OD tranny based on the top loader 4 speed during that time?
I'm not sure what year is started, but I suspect you are thinking of the aluminum case 4 speed +OD Mazda trans. Those had a non-granny first gear. There was a synchro issue with earlier ones. I had one that failed. When I went to the dealer and started listing off the parts I needed the counter guy stopped me, disappeared, and came back with a kit that had everything I needed, including synchros with heavier teeth. A smaller version of that same basic trans design was used in the MN-12 T-Birds, and possibly a few others. Those didn't have the synchro problem.
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:04 PM   #63
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Yeah that's the mazda M50D R2. I had that transmission in my 2000 4.2 L V6. It had synch issues...... a rebuild kit fixed it. Is the bellhousing the same for the 4.2 and 300?
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:04 PM   #64
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Ford did use a 3 speed with overdrive that looks exactly like a 4 speed toploader except for the bump on the right hand side of the case to clear the od gear.
The 3.8, and 4.2 V6 use the same 6 bolt bellhousing as the small blocks, and 240-300 six.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:03 PM   #65
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Didn't Ford use a 4 speed OD tranny based on the top loader 4 speed during that time?
Late 70's early 80's Granada with the 4spd was a cast iron case toploader but with 4th being overdrive. THey worked quite well.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:12 PM   #66
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Didn't Ford use a 4 speed OD tranny based on the top loader 4 speed during that time?
I have one in my roadster behind a 300, the only drawback is the long reach between 2nd and 3rd gear. Other than that It's good, with 3.00 gears and 28" tall tires I'm at 1800 at 65 MPH.
I built the engine you originally described, it is a late model FI engine from a certain brown delivery truck we all see now and then. I left the compression ratio stock, used the Offy single plane 4V with a holly 410 CFM carb, a set of headman headers for a ford truck and a mild cam (I've lost the card and don't remember the grind). on road trips I tow a small trailer and weigh about 3K, get 20-25 MPG with good performance.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:42 PM   #67
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The 4 speed OD transmissions drive thru the cluster gear in 4th gear OD which causes premature bearing wear and is not the most efficient setup. The early ones had bronze bushings and the later needle bearings in the cluster gears. The steel cranks also came on F600 Ford trucks. Why anyone would buy a 6 cylinder F600 is beyond me but I actually had one in a bucket truck while working for a line contractor
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:52 PM   #68
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Even with the needle bearings in the cluster I ran into wear on that shaft when I rebuilt the transmission.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #69
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Didn't Ford use a 4 speed OD tranny based on the top loader 4 speed during that time?
Quote:
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Yeah that's the mazda M50D R2. I had that transmission in my 2000 4.2 L V6. It had synch issues...... a rebuild kit fixed it. Is the bellhousing the same for the 4.2 and 300?
Actually Truckedup is referring to the Ford RUG 4 speed OD transmissions used in the late 70's and 80's. 4th gear was overdrive. The M5R2 is a 5 speed and for the most part replaced the RUG's for the 90's. The RUG's came in aluminum and cast iron case versions. The cast iron units being used in trucks and full size cars. They are decent transmissions, but there is a huge ratio jump from 3rd gear to OD 4th.

The NP435 is a decent transmission - for a rock crawler. It is all cast iron, very heavy, and even can support a PTO. Typically it was found in F-250 and larger trucks. 1st is super deep, I had a NP435 in my '51 for a number of years, it was bullet proof, but I only ever used 1st in parades, and 4th was only 1:1.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:25 PM   #70
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The M5R2 is a 5 speed and for the most part replaced the RUG's for the 90's.
According to this info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_M5OD_transmission
the trans is called M5OD. The "R" suffix indicated what version it is. My 89 F-150 w/300 six had one. According to the chart some vehicles had them sooner.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:09 PM   #71
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I've been thinking about tossing the RUG and this would work great.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:12 PM   #72
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I'm sorry guys but that mazda 5spd is a turd.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:29 PM   #73
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I had 218000m before a rebuild on my M50Rd2, slave cylinder finally blew so I had it rebuilt while it was out. It was a survey truck and got ragged....so I can't say nothing bad about them.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:35 PM   #74
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

And I've seen many mazda 5spds not even make it to 100,000 miles. I've never had a NP435 fail period.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:35 PM   #75
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Before you choose Clifford, do your homework about the reviews folks give them these days, regarding their quality control, and the better reports heard several years ago.
Head-work, head-work, head-work with the big six.
If you choose Offy - strongly consider the Dual-Port as opposed to the C series.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:39 PM   #76
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Before you choose Clifford, do your homework about the reviews folks give them these days, regarding their quality control, and the better reports heard several years ago.
Head-work, head-work, head-work with the big six.
If you choose Offy - strongly consider the Dual-Port as opposed to the C series.

I've ran both Offy intakes. I'd never run a DP. There's no need for split runners on a big 6. If you are going Offenhauser I'd go C-series.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:48 PM   #77
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I've gotta get this thing built well enough to outrun a 4.6L mustang in a quarter. Guy at work has already started talking crap about a six going in it and how good his mustang is!

So as far as looking for a 300 donor truck with EVERYTHING (Good tranny w/OD, AC, and Power Steering). Im looking at an early 80's with a RUG? If i go to an EFI head odds are it will have the M5R2.....

Fordman, how much power were behind the ones that failed? Stock, or beefed up? Mine had the 4.2L so it wasn't throwing out any Incredible No.'s, I did have 33's on it though, and it got rocked hard in the snow and mud A TON. However we did have a whole fleet of them..... and not many problems, most problems were the synch rings wearing out.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:49 PM   #78
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GOSH I wish cliffords didn't have the rep they do now. Everyone is complaining about them. I want a dual carb set up awefully bad.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:53 PM   #79
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I guess I could put a T5 behind it but thats more dough when I'm trying to buy a WHOLE donor truck, and besides that Id like to keep it as trucky as possible except for lowering it.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:01 PM   #80
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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The NP435 is a decent transmission - for a rock crawler. It is all cast iron, very heavy, and even can support a PTO. Typically it was found in F-250 and larger trucks. 1st is super deep, I had a NP435 in my '51 for a number of years, it was bullet proof, but I only ever used 1st in parades, and 4th was only 1:1.
Ford NP435 ratios.... 6.68/3.34/1.66/1.00

Others... http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:02 PM   #81
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

It's going to take some cash to build a 300 that would beat a 4.6L Stang.

You won't break much of anything with a 4.2L.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:06 PM   #82
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I guess I could put a T5 behind it but thats more dough when I'm trying to buy a WHOLE donor truck, and besides that Id like to keep it as trucky as possible except for lowering it.

What are you putting this stuff in? A T5 would be a better choice then the mazda 5spd. But if it's going in a heavy vehicle it won't last long behind the 300 unless you really baby it.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:40 PM   #83
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F100.......... I plan on dropping quite a few dimes in this engine. We've been discussing 390 vs 352 pistons for it. Is there any piston slap when going to either of these?
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:47 PM   #84
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I used a '83 300 six in my Yard Art. The engine is mostly stock with a few internal performanc parts. A 268 cam, roller rockers, blue printed oil pump, and balanced rotating parts. I run a Clifford dual four intake with twin Holley 94's. It turns a Tremic 3-speed manual to a 3.50:1 rear 8 inch gear.

This thing hauls butt..... tire smoke is just a throttle mash away! I do get 18 mpg in this 2,600 pound car.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:51 PM   #85
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I wish I could get my hands on a 2 carb 300 intake. Cliffords doesn't appear to sell it bare anymore.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:57 PM   #86
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Yeah you have to drop about 1400ish for a whole kit. Comes with the webers and all. So that and a header is gonna put me around 1700, Rebuild kit is about 300$, and Im hoping I can get it bored and the headwork done for about 1k........ and a few for the cam. Im hoping that 3500 will cover all of it..........


I really appreciate you guys chiming in on stuff you've done to your sixes. I lot of people offer advice, but its nice to hear stuff from people running them........
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:03 PM   #87
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I made the adapters to turn them into two barrels, very easy..... I have seen three of the dual four intakes on ebay in this last year.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:07 PM   #88
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I wish I could get my hands on a 2 carb 300 intake. Cliffords doesn't appear to sell it bare anymore.

They don't have them on their website but I was told they still sell them you just have to call and order them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
Yeah you have to drop about 1400ish for a whole kit. Comes with the webers and all. So that and a header is gonna put me around 1700, Rebuild kit is about 300$, and Im hoping I can get it bored and the headwork done for about 1k........ and a few for the cam. Im hoping that 3500 will cover all of it..........


I really appreciate you guys chiming in on stuff you've done to your sixes. I lot of people offer advice, but its nice to hear stuff from people running them........


Or you could call them and just order the intake for $400-$450 and buy the carbs elsewhere where you won't pay thru the rear.

Don't buy anything from clifford that you can buy elsewhere!!
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:12 PM   #89
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Before you choose Clifford, do your homework about the reviews folks give them these days, regarding their quality control, and the better reports heard several years ago.
Head-work, head-work, head-work with the big six.
If you choose Offy - strongly consider the Dual-Port as opposed to the C series.
I personally had Clifford blueprint the head for my 200 several years ago, and their customer service was awesome.....however, I called them recently to order a hydraulic lifter (to replace a collapsed one in my engine) and they acted like it was an enormous pain in the ass for them to process my order.

www.classicinlines.com is my ford 6 company of choice!
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:19 PM   #90
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I personally had Clifford blueprint the head for my 200 several years ago, and their customer service was awesome.....however, I called them recently to order a hydraulic lifter (to replace a collapsed one in my engine) and they acted like it was an enormous pain in the ass for them to process my order.
No idea what's going on in Clifford's case, but that's the kind of thing that all too often happens when the kids take over for the old man, or someone buys a successful business. The original owner had a combination that made the business what it was, and the new people have different ways of thinking.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:21 PM   #91
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www.classicinlines.com is my ford 6 company of choice!

Mike's a great guy to get parts from for a small 6. He's got zip for the 240/300's except maybe the dui distributor. But I'm still hoping he can get the aluminum 300 heads finished.
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:34 PM   #92
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Thats off of a early 80's F150. Will a T5 Bolt up to that Bell housing??? Is there a lot of problems doing it? or is just slip it in???
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:11 AM   #93
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I'm pretty sure the T5 takes it's own style of bell housing.

And make sure you have the correct flywheel for the 300 and the bell housing you use.
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:06 AM   #94
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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Thats off of a early 80's F150. Will a T5 Bolt up to that Bell housing??? Is there a lot of problems doing it? or is just slip it in???

To use a T5 behind a top loader style bellhousing like the one in your picture you will need an adaptor http://www.calponycars.com/prodDetail.php?prodId=349

If you are planning to do any kind of racing a scattershield would be a good investment.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:30 AM   #95
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

An Automatic would be a good investment. C4 works well behind these motors.
Someone asked would there be piston slap with a 390 piston . Also a 352 piston was mentioned but I have no idea why. 390 is the best fit. Like perfect. Why would anyone think there would be piston slap with a 390 piston? I dont follow this line of thought but am curious how it would pop up.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:51 AM   #96
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I was asking about the "slap", a guy I work with said I might run into that.... So I was just asking. As far as the 390 pistons several have been mentioning heat issues and over boring the block fifty thousandths, just there preference not too.

As far as transmissions goes it looks like a 4 speed RUG is the best, am I correct? I get a tough transmission with overdrive........ Do the RUG transmissions work off of a hydraulic or cable clutch?
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:55 AM   #97
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Also is there a transmission code on the door sticker for a RUG??? does anyone know it?

When looking at donors how can I Identify a RUG from the others?

Thanks
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:56 AM   #98
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Those top loader 4th over trans had a tendency to eat bearings.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:23 AM   #99
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LOL so then what is the "best" Manual OD transmission to put behind a 300???
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:26 AM   #100
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Recommendations

The top loader 3 speed set up you have is actually a good one but here are a couple of pictures of my iron case OD 4 speed and bell housing. they look pretty much like any top loader, I would suppose that with 3.50 or deeper gears they would be OK for a daily driver but in a rig heaver than a roadster don't expect much in the way of performance after second gear.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:03 PM   #101
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I have the exact 3 speed set up as pictured above. It works very well with a 3:50 rear end... One set back is the HUGE ratio difference between 2nd and 3rd gear...... Hauls butt in first/second and falls flat on it's face in third..... So..... do really short races! I've banged on mine hard and with a light weight car it's hard to hurt anything.

I too would like to do a conversion to a 4 speed top loader. Someone do a parts sheet for us!
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:30 PM   #102
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LOL so then what is the "best" Manual OD transmission to put behind a 300???
The best would be a Tremec TKO 5spd. It's an aftermarket transmission for stuff like Mustangs. But you are looking at $800-$1000 for a used one ( if you can find one ) . I believe they run somewhere in the $1500-$1800 range for new ones ( been a while since I checked the prices ) .


If you are on more of a budget one to consider would be a ZF S5-42 5spd out of a late 80's - 90's F250/F350 with a 351W or 300. These are miles ahead of the mazda 5spds strength wise. The 2wd versions can be picked up used for $300-$600. You don't need a bell housing with these because they are built into the transmission case. But they will require converting to a hydraulic slave cylinder set up. You will also need a flywheel for a 300 with the ZF 5spd.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:40 PM   #103
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The bad thing about the ZF 5 speed is that the trans is huge compaired to a T5, or a TKO 5 speed, the ZF is best for a truck application pulling a trailer.


How to id a 4 speed toploader, and a (RUG) 3 speed with overdrive toploader.
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:51 PM   #104
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

my dad gave me some 300 six parts he used to run.. im trying to decide what to do with them..


plus few heads,cranks magneto, headers clutches.. ..so many ideas.. so little cash.. sheesh
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:00 PM   #105
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The bad thing about the ZF 5 speed is that the trans is huge compaired to a T5, or a TKO 5 speed, the ZF is best for a truck application pulling a trailer.


How to id a 4 speed toploader, and a (RUG) 3 speed with overdrive toploader.
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm

Yes it is large but he did say he's got a F100 so it is a truck. The ZF is an option for the guys that can't afford a TKO but want something stronger then the T5.
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:19 PM   #106
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

For just crusing it with an occasional race (but not use it to pull a trailer) the ZF is not the one to use (the shifter on the ZF leaves a lot to be desired).
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:35 PM   #107
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For just crusing it with an occasional race (but not use it to pull a trailer) the ZF is not the one to use (the shifter on the ZF leaves a lot to be desired).
So does the stock shifter on the T5. They do sell short throw shifter kits for the ZF.

If he needs OD the ZF is the strongest trans for the money. If money isn't a problem then The Tremec TKO or even a T-56 6spd would be the way to go. Grenading T5's gets old pretty quick. If he was building something light then the T5 wouldn't be a horrible choice. But not in a truck.
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:54 PM   #108
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Pipes, I can help you decide what to do with that stuff.....
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:20 PM   #109
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Great thread, I've learned a lot about choices. When I built my roadster a few years back I didn't think anybody did Fords big six.
Pipes, that manifold and carb set up would look tits on my car.
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:35 PM   #110
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Pipes, I can help you decide what to do with that stuff.....
You have a very nice father!!
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:38 PM   #111
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Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I was asking about the "slap", a guy I work with said I might run into that.... So I was just asking. As far as the 390 pistons several have been mentioning heat issues and over boring the block fifty thousandths, just there preference not too.
I am sorry to hear that. I thought since i had done it successfully and it stood the test of time well that might have some value. Thanks for answering anyway. I just as an expierenced engine builder will never understand when a good proven combo that has stood many many years testng and running is given there are 900 folks who have never set a boring bar on a block who know why it wont work. Even though it is a proven combination. I guess i never will.
060 is the max suppliers make pistons for that engine 050 is not that much and they are sure it will stand 060 or they would NOT make pistons for it because they cant afford the backlash. Legally or from the headache standpoint. Anyway Carry on. Just wondered. It reminded me why I retired.
As for slap there is no reason why a properly fitted piston would slap.?????It doesnt know what engine it is in. Don
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:54 PM   #112
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I never said it won't work to over bore it 0.050". I just think it's not the best choice just to use 390 pistons. There are pistons that will work with the stock bore ( or even .010",.020", .030", etc. ) . Why remove more material then absolutely necessary? And by going .050" over you are also limiting any future rebuilds.

Going 0.060" over on a 300 is like playing with a hand grenade.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:36 PM   #113
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The blueprint dimension on cylinder wall thickness for a 300 is .160" - .170", as measured 2/3 of the way down the bores. A .050" overbore would remove .025" of that .160". If you have a relatively low performance hop-up, say, anything under 300 HP it may matter little. If you are trying to run a 600 HP fuel injected, 15:1 race engine it will drive you crazy.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:33 PM   #114
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I never said it won't work to over bore it 0.050". I just think it's not the best choice just to use 390 pistons. There are pistons that will work with the stock bore ( or even .010",.020", .030", etc. ) . Why remove more material then absolutely necessary? And by going .050" over you are also limiting any future rebuilds.
I dont build engines with the intention of future rebuilds Once is enuf. many I built in the 70s even are still around and alive.
Here a fellow could take a 300 get a set of pistons most likely even for zip or if he bought them new maybe $15 each, a decent cam I often get custom grinds made cost no more than normal. Some kind of intake with decent carburation and a bore and a good rebuild and it would run great . Eat its V8 brother for breakfast and last longer than most would ever want to use it.
And it is not theory. I have done it for folks more than once. Here is one in the pic Representing TMP at Norfolk. The late Bob Gauley driving. He ran this motor that is in the car in this picture for 9 years and then sold the whole car. One certainly would not want something like that! And yes it is 4.050 bore. But never mind. Why spend $1500 when you could blow $5000 for less performance.
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Old 09-04-2011, 09:15 AM   #115
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I think the core of the bore thickness debate is how an engine will be used. On street engines and for occasional drag racing people get away with thin bores, rods that are too short for the amount of stroke, rings that are too wide/heavy for the engine's max RPMs, iron rods or crankshaft, no harmonic damper, improperly curved distributors, combustion chamber shortcomings, etc, etc. etc. To one degree or another all those things are asking for trouble, but most of the time nothing catastrophic happens. Do any of those things on an engine that is used hard and the odds of having trouble go way up. That's where you are guaranteed to see broken cranks, collapsed cylinder walls, excessive blow-by due to excessively thin cylinder walls, burned pistons and valves, etc. Even among racers some take chances, and more often than not they get by. It's a matter of probabilities, and the more you ask for trouble the more likely you are to get some. How much risk one is willing to take, and how often are they going to do it.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:50 PM   #116
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

CutawayAl,
You are the smartest boy in class! Have another chocolate chip cookie on me.
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:41 AM   #117
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Don,

Any of those engines seen 100K. Thats what I'm looking to get/ like to get before I am rebuilding again? I'd like to get this thing into the 350 HP range, more would be great but impractical for street use....

Which type of piston 390 vs 352 will probably depend on how good my donor engine is. If it just needs honed, I will go with a 352 set. If it is an older block that needs some boring done anyhow I will probably bump up to the 390's.

Thanks
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:50 AM   #118
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Cliffords shows a TRIPLE SIDE DRAUGHT manifold for 389$.

They recommend the weber carbs they sell for it. What are some comparable carbs for this setup?

What all goes into a kit like this, as far as linkages between the carbs.

Frenchtown, what type of work is involved to convert to the chevy rockers you mentioned earlier???
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:28 AM   #119
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

http://members.cox.net/madmaxetc/196...acts_300T5.htm

Thought I'd post that. It's a how to on placing a t5 behind a toploader style bell housing.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:08 AM   #120
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I built a 240, same as 300 shorter stroke, for me 48 F1, the cyl head had same chambers as 351C,2V , it flowed real good with just an intake matchup, I used Clifford 2barrel with a holly 500cfm carb, Clifford headers, 3into 1 split, and I believe I used a cam, mild mid to high range, Crane I think, this was back in late 70's. Made believer's out a lot of 350 Chevy guys, it had a C4S trans and a 57 F100 9 inch with 355 gears, ran good pulled good and i drove it approx 160.000 miles. 6 in a row, gotta go. Cliff
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:38 PM   #121
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

http://www.summitracing.com/search/B...?Ns=Rank%7cAsc

What makes the OFFY C series more expensive than the OFFY Dual port?

Which is better.........power wise, fuel economy wise???
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:40 PM   #122
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Also does anyone other than Cliffords make a valve cover for the six?
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:21 PM   #123
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

blah blah blah.. TURBO CHARGE IT. TWIN TURBO CHARGE IT!!! .
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:19 PM   #124
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
http://www.summitracing.com/search/B...?Ns=Rank%7cAsc

What makes the OFFY C series more expensive than the OFFY Dual port?

Which is better.........power wise, fuel economy wise???

They sell more DP's so they are cheaper.

The OFF'y is better for power.


Quote:
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Also does anyone other than Cliffords make a valve cover for the six?
The guy that makes the side covers makes a billet valve cover but it's like $1200( CNC'd out of a solid block of aluminum ) . He's working on some cast ones but it's been a few years.

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blah blah blah.. TURBO CHARGE IT. TWIN TURBO CHARGE IT!!! .
Personally I prefer a Shelby GT500 Eaton M112 supercharger!
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:34 PM   #125
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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I have thought about that as well, as I have both that adaptor and an M5R2. I suppose you would also have to put a spacer the same thickness as the adaptor between the flywheel and crankshaft flange in order to get the input shaft to ride in the pilot bushing correctly, and the starter to line up correctly. Should be fairly easy to do.
Hey FrozenMerc!! Did you try the m5r2 to the flathead? I have a 302 with a m5r2 in my coupe(thinking flathead in the future) Pete
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #126
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I have not tried it, the M5R2 went into my '51 behind the Windsor, so I no longer have it available. If you try, let me know how it works out.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:51 AM   #127
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

My engine builder suggest I stay away from the 352, and 390 FE pistons due to weight and the rings, and going with replacement Hyperteutic Pistons. He prefers shaving the block to bump up compression.

At the same time he hasn't built a 300 engine quite like where I want to go with this one. Whats your opinions on what he says?

Also Do I really want to raise compression if I am building a low RPM torquer? I plan on running something similar to an Isky mile-a-more cam, or comp cams 252H that produce a lot of low torque.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:55 AM   #128
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

AND what about theis supercharger/Turbo talk? Anyone put one on a 300 here?
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:34 AM   #129
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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... Do I really want to raise compression if I am building a low RPM torquer? I plan on running something similar to an Isky mile-a-more cam, or comp cams 252H that produce a lot of low torque.
At WOT the engine is already "borderline detonation limited" at the stock compression ratio, meaning you will have to retard the spark to prevent detonation before you can achieve optimun spark advance.

A slightly larger cam may help this situation a bit - at least move the detonation region higher up in the RPM band, but if I were building an engine for low speed lugging I would leave the compression ratio stock and just try to improve the low-end volumetric efficiency through good head preparation and maybe a set of Chevrolet six (230 - 292) 1.75:1 roller rocker arms. An RV cam with Cloyes adjustable gears advanced 4 degrees, an Autolite 1.08 carb, and some EFI cast dual exhausts, and a clutch fan or electric fan would complete my menu.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:44 AM   #130
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Along with an electric fan I plan to go with an aluminum flywheel and drive shaft to reduce rotating mass.

I'd like to ditch the AC but the old lady would never ride in it if I did.

I am on ford six looking at supercharger setups, looks like that may be an option.

I've got the motor, got the transmission, now its time to clean, rebuild, and piece this thing back together.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #131
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I took out a 300 and put in a 302 out of a Mustang GT in my 81 F150 a few years ago. Thought it would run alot better, but it didn't pull a boat as good as the 300 and I guess the truck weight was to high to run quick. I would rather have the 300 in a truck, but I would keep the 302 in a car. It's cheaper to hop up a 302 and it will rev higher.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:05 PM   #132
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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I took out a 300 and put in a 302 out of a Mustang GT in my 81 F150 a few years ago. Thought it would run alot better, but it didn't pull a boat as good as the 300 and I guess the truck weight was to high to run quick. I would rather have the 300 in a truck, but I would keep the 302 in a car. It's cheaper to hop up a 302 and it will rev higher.
The 302 has it's peak torque at a much higher rpm then the 300 does. You can tow with a 302 you just need a lot more gear.

With the right modifications a 300 can rev quite high too.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:20 PM   #133
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

The 300-6 will out torque a 351 until about 3000 rpm so most of your driving it's got more power.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:31 PM   #134
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

I changed the rear end from 279 to 325 and it helped some. The 302 would go much faster than the F150 should go. The torque curve was much higher with the 302 and was low on the 300.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:43 PM   #135
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I changed the rear end from 279 to 325 and it helped some. The 302 would go much faster than the F150 should go. The torque curve was much higher with the 302 and was low on the 300.

3.25 still isn't enough gear. You need a minimum of 3.73's but 4.10's would be better with a 302 in a truck. If you are running an OD trans then 4.10's is a must.

That's what I said about the torque.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:43 AM   #136
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

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I changed the rear end from 279 to 325 and it helped some. The 302 would go much faster than the F150 should go. The torque curve was much higher with the 302 and was low on the 300.

Yup. When people speak to me about comparing these two engines I tell them to "go put that one-barrel carb from a 300 on your 302 - 4V and tell me how that works".
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:00 AM   #137
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

C6 trans
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:33 AM   #138
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Default Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Definately subscribed.
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