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Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tlmartin84, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    I know cliffords and offy make tons of parts for these engines. I've heard clifford's is overpriced.

    I am specifically looking at the intakes. Cliffords offers a Weber Dual Carb setup, how much advantage would the dual carb have over lets say an offy intake with one single 4bbl carb (assuming the combined two barrels equal the same cfm's of one 4 barrel, making it a matter of distribution)?

    Price wise the Clifford setup is around 1400. While the offy setup is closer to 600.

    I'm also looking at boring it over, decking the head, MAYBE larger valves, and a camshaft upgrade.

    Any other reccomendations would be great. Also any good 300 performance part supplier information would be good as well.

    I have been to fordsix and that forum doesn't stay nearly as busy as this one.
  2. Bearing Burner
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    Bearing Burner Member

    Check out Inliners International. Several years ago there was an article in theit 12 port news about cutting ford V8 head and rewelding the pieces for a 300" six.
  3. FrozenMerc
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    FrozenMerc Member

    The first question you need to answer is what do you want the motor to do. Once that is answered, you can start looking at what manifold will best fit your application. I run a Offy 4 bbl dual plane manifold on my 300. But then it is a truck motor and I built it for pulling, not racing. The single plane manifolds by both Clifford and Offy are designed for higher rpm applications. However, the big sticking point is the head. The 300 head needs a ton of work to get it to flow well enough to take full advantage of a big single plane intake.

    Boring the block to 4.05 opens up alot of piston options. That is the same bore size as standard Ford FE series 360, 390, and 410 engines.

    Decking is good, It never hurts to bring the compression up, just keep an eye on your clearances.

    I run a Comp 270H cam in my 300, it has great low end torque and pulls good through the rpm range (only 4500 rpm, as the head gets pretty wheezy after that).

    Lots of guys have built great 300's here on the HAMB, stay tuned and I am sure more will chime in. While your waiting, read the rules and go do an introduction.:rolleyes:
  4. Bigjake
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    Bigjake Member

    ^ Listen to this man.
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  5. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    This is going to be a driver, occasional fun. I still want something that lopes a little at idle and has plenty of getup and go when I need it (be fun to watch the guys in these 5.0 and 4.6 mustangs faces when I leave em at the light). Something that also gets decent mileage when I'm just cruisin on the freeway (18mpg would be nice but some of that I will take care of with gearing).

    Frozen Merc what do you get mileage wise with your setup? Any Idea?

    Also where do you all stop redlining your engines at? Im thinking 1800 would be a good cruising RPM on the 300, please correct me if I'm wrong.
  6. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    Oh about the head, I'm getting conflicting info from cliffords.....they say not to port or polish the heads, that with this motor its about velocity of air versus volume.

    Whats up with that? I was kind of stunned to hear that because first thing to pickup power through a head is to port and polish them.

    The only logical sense that I can make from it is that the faster the air is moving the better chance it has to fill the 1 and 6 cylinders?
  7. 48 Chubby
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    48 Chubby Member Emeritus

    FrozenMerc knows his poo. The key to your question was "MAYBE larger valves". If you are not willing to step up to some high dollar head work, then accept the engine for what it is and build your self a 4800 rpm torquer. An open plenum single plane intake would only work against you.
    You and your ride will both be happier.
  8. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    Chubby I'm a little confused. You are saying an open plenum single plane is best for a torquer not for higher revs?

    I very well may spend some money on head work, but I don't think I will need anything over 4800...... I'd just like some thump off the line....and good mileage after that

    And don't forget looks.....A dual carb set up is SEXY.
  9. FrozenMerc
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    FrozenMerc Member

    I get 17-18 mpg with my 300 and an AOD behind it installed in a very un-aerodynamic truck. It will pull down to the 13-14 mpg range with an open car trailer behind it. 1800-2200 is a great cruising rpm range (60 to 65 mph).

    I see no harm in doing some porting and polishing work. However, be careful. There is a bunch of back yard mechanics that have taken a die grinder to a head or 2 and had absolutely no performance gain to show for it in the end. I would recommend a light cleaning up of the bowl area around the valve stems and a gasket match. Anything else for a street motor is probably unwarranted. Remember, a street motor will spend 90% of its life below 3000 rpms, where porting is not necessary.

    A set of headers, bumping the compression up to around 9.0 or 9.5:1, Offy Dual Plane, a good cam, and a 500 cfm 4 bbl will have you running circles around 5.0's in no time.

    Good Luck
  10. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    You mentioned boring it over to accept 390 pistons. I will probably bore it over as it is a high mileage engine. Are the wrist pins the same? Can I use the stock rods or is there something better on the market?

    A 390 piston is taller than the original of a 300, correct? That in turn with light decking should raise the compression up considerable?

    I apologize for the questions but this is the first motor I've ever rebuilt/built (except for a stock rebuild on a pinto motor in HS). And it's going in my 56. I just want to do it once and do it right. While I'm sure there will be more cars to come in my future, this is the one I want to do once and have forever.
  11. 48 Chubby
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    48 Chubby Member Emeritus

    Just read what I wrote. An open plenum single plane intake will only work against you. (I understood it perfectly)

    A dual plane is what you want. A really lopey "thumpin" idle is NOT going to help your milage, but I do really like em.

    Engine building is like many other things- you can get any thing you want, but you can't have every thing you want.
  12. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    I'm tracking now Chubby. Thanks.
  13. fiddysixF
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    fiddysixF Member

    Guy's? What about the later heads on the EFI 300's? I read online that they are a better head/flow better than the earlier heads? Fact, or someones opinion?
    (I'm flipping a "mental coin" between a 300-6 or 302 for my F100)

    Thanks gents!
  14. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    I've been flipping that same coin.......

    I'm into the sixes all the way. Problem is I got a 302 sitting here, doesn't make good economical sense not to use it. But I'm gonna part it out and go for the six. Like I said earlier sixes are long lean and SEXY.
  15. fiddysixF
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    fiddysixF Member

    It's tough doing what makes sense. I have 2-302's sitting in the garage, one thats a runner on a stand, and one thats already IN the effie. (Condition unknown) and I'm still thinking six, JUST because when you pop the hood it's something different.
  16. Ak Miller did a lot with the 300. I don't know where to send you to look for it. Ak told me when he was still around. He liked turbo on propane. Made good HP and torque.
  17. 48 Chubby
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    48 Chubby Member Emeritus

    What the hell is this "economic sense" crap? Economic sense is a nice used 4 cyl Ranger. We are Hot Rodders. Stand tall, ride low, go fast, and damn the economic sense!
  18. GassersGarage
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    GassersGarage Member

    How about Smokey Yunick and his "homogenizer"? He got 450 hp out of an iron duke. He said he it would be worthless on a 350 as it would make too much hp. Wish I had kept the article.
  19. cl350rr
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    cl350rr Member

  20. FrozenMerc
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    FrozenMerc Member

    The later efi head is better flowing than the carb head, but not much. However the efi manifolds (exhaust and intake) is were the real gains were made. If a person was dead set on keeping an exhuast manifold instead of header, the late model efi manifold is the way to go.

    Pistons:
    This is were a little research is required. There a large number of FE Ford pistons out there. All with different compression heights, profiles, etc. Part of the reason they work is that the 300 shares the same stroke as the 410 and 428 FE's (3.98").

    Engine---Deck Height---Compression Height---Rod Length
    300------10.00"---------1.757"------------------6.21"
    352------10.17"---------1.836"------------------6.54"
    360------10.17"---------1.836" or 1.775"-------6.54" (Some truck 360's ran 390 pistons to lower compression)
    390------10.17"---------1.775"------------------6.49"
    410------10.17"---------1.675"------------------6.49"

    Piston Deck Clearance = Deck Height - (Stroke*0.5+Rod Length) - Comp. Height

    Using that Equation
    Piston Deck Clearance on a 300 = 0.043", 300 with 390 slugs = 0.015"

    Basically, you should get a nice bump in compression by using stock 390 pistons in your 300, as the 390 pistons will sit 0.028" higher in the hole. I think the pins are the same diameter, however I may be wrong on that. Bottom line, Search around. There was a number of different FE's built that all used different shaped pistons. Plus there is a huge aftermarket supply for the FE's and a number of companies making different and custom pistons. You should be able to find something that will work well.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  21. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER Member

    Either the single 4V or the 2 x 2s will work fine on the street. I like the looks of multiple carbs.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Nobody makes a DUAL PLANE intake for the 300. Offy makes a DUAL PORT intake, but I am not convinced it is any better than either their single plane or the single plane Clifford, which both perform about the same.

    I recommend the EFI cast exhaust manifolds on the street as their performance is comparable to headers without the headaches.

    I recommend hypereutectic pistons instead of cast pistons with internal expansion struts. The stock pistons are prone to cracking.

    Replace the fiber timing gears with metal ones.

    Bowl blending and general port clean up makes a big improvement in these engines.

    A larger intake valve and / or Chevy rocker arms from a 250 / 292 will help.

    The head from a carbed engine will flow better than an EFI head due to the valve shrouding on the EFI head, but the fast-burn characteristics make the EFI head a better choice for best fuel economy. The carbed head is also easier to modify for Chevy rockers.

    Love those 300s.

    www.fordsix.com
  22. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    Frozen Merc, thanks for the dimensions I was actually getting ready to ask if any of you had any clearances..... gives me a starting point for decking the head.

    These motors all have pressed in head studs, are those sufficient or should they be yanked and threaded head bolts used?

    As far as economic sense......if you have plenty of jack economics means nothing, when your poor you gotta put yah needs first, and wants second.....that being said I will probably still drop quite a few of unecessary dimes to hop up the six.
  23. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    Cliffords say that they deck a 300 head 60 thousandths, but that doesn't jive with deck height that you show Merc (I'm not disputing you because I have found the same specs you quoted other places). My machinist also told me that he thought 60 thousandths sounded like quite a bit.

    Are the guys at Cliffords blowing smoke or what?
  24. CutawayAl
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    CutawayAl Member

    Short of a billet head, blower, or turbo, the biggest power increase for this engine is an aluminum Boss 351 derived head. At one time people made them by cutting and welding V-8 heads. Someone eventually made a casting that eliminated the need for all that work. I assume those heads are still available. If not, enough looking could probably find one.
  25. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    I'm reading up on this and sitting here scratching my head wondering why in the crap someone is not producing these for the auto market today?

    Not to be a conspiracy theorist but automakers and oil companies have to be working hand and hand. 50's model engines getting upwards of 20mpg's and with all the technology today (granted emissions plays a part) but the same displacement engine has worse fuel mileage........
  26. tjm73
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    tjm73 Member

    Frenchtown Flyer drag races the 300 so he is THE MAN to offer suggestions on a street 300. He knows what works and what doesn't.
  27. second_floor_loft
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    second_floor_loft Member

    Frenchtown Flyer:
    The intake made from the FI intake,, How did that perform? Seem an interesting project compared to buying the two by two from Clifford. Any background info?

    Thanks:
    Paul T
  28. scott 351 wins
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    scott 351 wins Member

    i have a 300 out of a 85 bronco, i did the offy intake, pacesetter's headers plus a basic tune up. the 300 ran considerably better. what do you plan on using for a trans? a manual is the only way, the 300 shares the same bolt pattern as the 289, 302 and 351 w so i believe you can use a Tremec trans.
  29. tlmartin84
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    tlmartin84 Member

    I may try to go with a T5, however Ive also been told M5OD-R2 will work, and the f150(likely be a donor for me from a late 80's early 90's) had a five speed as well. I think it had a granny gear in it. Anyone have any idea what model that tranny or any other tranny that will bolt to a 300 is please post them.........
  30. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER Member

    The one pictured belongs to a friend. I built a similar one with three Holley carbs on an engine that made 365 rear wheel horsepower.

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