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Technical Teach and win!!!! Halibrand Quickchanges

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Ryan, Dec 12, 2006.

  1. jebbesen
    Joined: Aug 18, 2015
    Posts: 402

    jebbesen
    Member
    from Winona, MN


    Ok so they were just basically getting rid of the the keyed axles. I can't imagine that their new carrier made it that much stronger than it would be using the modified banjo carrier with the Hot Rod Works gears. You guys agree?
     
  2. Fatbrosracing
    Joined: Jun 23, 2009
    Posts: 237

    Fatbrosracing
    Member
    from Australia

    I have a 301, I've asked before but can't hurt to try again. Can anyone id the side bells, they are cast to have more oil capacity, and different than anything I've ever seen. IMG_1850.JPG
     
  3. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,393

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    You bore out the banjo carrier to use for 9" side gears. Some combinations of side gears and spiders work better than others.
     
    RoadsterDom likes this.
  4. H.A.M.B.E.R.
    Joined: Oct 13, 2011
    Posts: 47

    H.A.M.B.E.R.
    Member

    I have a Halibrand QC gear cover on my '32 Ford roadster with "Torrance City, CA" stamped on it. I have heard differing stories about the original of such stampings. Can anyone share their knowledge on this one? Gracias.
     
  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The original version of the cover said "Culver City, CA", but when they moved they just changed the pattern to say "Torrance City, CA". Even though there is no Torrance City.
     
  6. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,252

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Righto!

    The question is how long and how many were made before the 'City' was dropped from the castings. Inquiring Minds Want to Know.

    The move from Culver City to Torrance was in 1963. I would hazard a guess that the first run of castings after the move and maybe a few more were marked that way. This is pure conjecture on my part, though.
     
  7. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Did they ever just say "Torrance, CA" on the V8 rears? I don't remember seeing any.
     
  8. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,252

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    That's a good question. Let's see some pics guys.
     
  9. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 122

    Pat
    Member

    image.jpeg My v-8 says Torrance Calif. Not sure how old it is.
     
    Cyclone Kevin likes this.
  10. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I meant on the rear cover.
     
    Dave Walker likes this.
  11. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 122

    Pat
    Member

    Got it. Didn't pay attention to the cover part. I have a repop Culver City cover but my friend has the original cover. I'll check it out.
     
  12. Jebo
    Joined: Apr 24, 2007
    Posts: 137

    Jebo
    Member

    Just adding myself to this
     
  13. Yes - they did say Torrance. I grew up in Torrance and bought my V8 QC from Ted himself (later 70's). It is still new in the box - waiting to go into my 34 roadster project.

    IMG_5688.JPG
     
    Gotgas likes this.
  14. Ohhh - the question was about the rear cover. I will look this weekend - sorry about that!
     
  15. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,445

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Still surprisingly little info to be found online on the early quick changes. Figured I’d bump this old thread back to the top
     
  16. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,744

    Pewsplace
    Member

    Lots of old worn out Halibrands at swap meets and still bringing high prices for those who won't accept a Winters. If you can find a good one, buy it because they are hard to find. Both the V8 & Champ will work just fine if you set them up right. The one in my Avatar has been running for several years without a problem. Side plates for the Champ are available from Bruce on here.

    IMG_0353.jpg





    IMG_0589 (1).jpg
     
    ls1yj, Tim and kidcampbell71 like this.
  17. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,252

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Tim,

    I have been gathering information on Quickchanges for a book for a loooooong time. I believe that a lot of technical information was never published, because it wasn't necessary. Remember, the main purpose for the original QCs was to enable racers to adjust for track conditions. Most anybody who used one was familiar with Ford banjos and if made noise, so what?

    The two most common questions I answer about them are;
    1) How much horsepower will they take?
    and
    2) How noisy are they?

    The answers are;
    1) How much you got?
    and
    2) What?

    Seriously, horsepower is not the issue. Torque, traction and shock loads determine if they are suitable in a given situation.

    Noise is relative. My OT shop truck has a mutt built up from left over pieces. With Helical gears it is dead quiet, with straight cuts you can hear it but it's like a faint whine behind you. The key to noise seems to be snug carrier and pinion preload and TIGHT backlash.

    Is there something else you are looking for?

    This thread may be of some help too:

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/quick-change-quickchange.951136/


    Bruce
     
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  18. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,445

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Currently I’m most curious about the halibrand 101. The model A or midget model as it’s also been called.

    I’m mostly wondering about parts sharing with the 201 or other models.

    I’ve seen that the rear cover/plate will fit both 101 and 102

    I see that the lower shaft in the 101 is quit a bit smaller in diameter but still has 6 splines on the end. Some say the 201 spur gears will fit the 101 and others say no.

    The root of most of my curiosity is trying to figure out what I would need to build a 101 center section that is pretty bare.

    So if there is a shaft or part that works from the more common 201 I’d like to know as that opens up quite a few more opportunities for parts.
     
  19. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Some of the 201/101 rear covers had a smaller bearing in them. Not sure when those were made, maybe it was a revision that still fit both size centers?
     
  20. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,252

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Okay then Tim,

    The change gears are the same spline. There are 1" and 1 3/8" thick gears. I believe the 1" gears will work in both but the 1 3/8" will not fit the 101.

    The Midget (101) uses a shorter lower shaft. So,they are not interchangeable.

    As you discovered the rear covers are interchangeable but the 201 used a larger o.d. bearing.

    There was also a V8/Midget that was short like the 101 but used the V8 ring and pinion. I have one new lower shaft for one of these, if you need it.

    I've been fooling with QCs for over 40 years but have only worked on TWO 101s, and they were a long time ago. So, along with CRS, I might not have it all straight. The Model A was never a big deal to me as they are the weakest of all. And, I prefer the Champ size for most everything as the V8 stuff is so expensive.
     
  21. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,252

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Alchemy,
    You type fast than me.;)
     
  22. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,445

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Cool, so with the different od of that cover bearing is the id the same or would you need to find a fix?

    The a/midget is a couple inches shorter than the v8 so looking at the shape of the lower shaftsni don’t see where you could trim one to work.

    Looking at hotrod works website they list a lower shaft for them and an upper shaft, maybe called a pinion shaft? Specifically for the smaller units so I’d assume that the upper pieces also would not interchange.

    The power capabilities aren’t an issue I just don’t want to jump on a deal on a case and then havenit cost me more than a new one to rebuild.
     
  23. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    An A/B style quickchange rearend has an upper shaft because the pinion gear from Ford was originally just the gear, not a gear/shaft (the long driveshaft had a taper on the back end). The quickies use a short upper shaft with the tapered end pointing forward, and the Ford gear is held on by a nut.
     
  24. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,445

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Cool, makes enough since. Any idea if the a/b style upper shaft would interchange?
     
  25. oldtymehiboy
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 258

    oldtymehiboy
    Member
    from Indiana

    Not a Halibrand.
    Thought some of You might want to see a different version of a Quick Change.
    Early Ford Ring & Pinion
    Uses Halibrand Spur Gears
    This one is a Front Mount.
    Been saving it for a Hi-boy project.
    Some of You probably know what this is ??
    This is a good thread.
    There's a lot of knowledgeable people on here.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  26. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 433

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Slightly off topic -- some time ago (2 or 3 decades?) I looked at a very nice Halibrand-built Indy race car (mid engine Ford V8, so probably mid-sixties vintage), which was being offered for around $5000. These days, the price of a Halibrand QC is a good portion of that!

    With regards to independent rear suspension, I did procure a V8 Halibrand, from a less than successful experiment to modify a midget to utilize De Dion rear suspension. This is not really an independent rear, but the QC still needs to have stub axles with U-joints immediately adjacent to the center section. These were of the "rubber donut" type, commonly used European sports-racing and formula cars. I was thinking of using this in a street rod, but the midget had a "spool", which was amply supported by the bearings in the modified Ford bells. If converted to street use with a differential, the stub axles would probably not have adequate support unless the bells were modified to accept double row bearings.
     
  27. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 433

    Desmodromic
    Member

    That's a cool piece, but would lack the visual appeal of the Halibrand, as it's more-or-less out of site. I have a transmission with a similar change-gear arrangement on the back end. Unfortunately, it's just a 2-speed tranny, so not a viable street application.
     
  28. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 12,920

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I saw a magazine article on these years ago, seems a guy was racing a first gen. Corvette.
    After he prototyped one for himself he tooled up a handful of these.
     
  29. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,252

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Klentz?

    Tom McMullen used one of these in his Highboy for awhile. Based on '55-'64 Chevy parts.
     
  30. oldtymehiboy
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 258

    oldtymehiboy
    Member
    from Indiana

    DDDenny & GearheadsQCE
    You both are correct.
    Klentz - it is.

    Tom's Klentz was a rear mount.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018

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