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Technical Rocket Oldsmobile V8 Information Compiled

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Zaloryan, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,965

    Paul
    Editor

  2. Oldsmobucket
    Joined: Dec 11, 2005
    Posts: 330

    Oldsmobucket
    Member

    That McCulloch blower setup is killer Paul.
     
  3. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,965

    Paul
    Editor

    I've been researching the setup for a while,
    it's not nearly as simple as setting a roots style blower on top

    the centrifugal compressor is not linear like the roots air pump, the compression ratio increases as it spins faster, and it's already spinning faster than the crankshaft

    this version is variable speed, the ratio is controlled by demand

    the blow through design creates challenges when you try to push air through a carburetor designed for draw through

    on paper all the issues seem to be no big deal, they just need to be understood and adjustments made to get things to work together differently

    fuel pressures need to adjust with boost pressures,
    floats need to withstand increased bowl pressures,
    shafts and vents need to be sealed,
    secondary action needs to be mechanical
    and air fuel ratios need to be monitored more closely....

    anything is worth trying at least once, right? :)
     
  4. aerorocket
    Joined: Oct 25, 2007
    Posts: 488

    aerorocket
    Member
    from N.E. P.A.



    In 64 Olds called the 2 speed the Jetaway, which was used behind the 330 in the Jetstar 88. The Jetstar 1 [394] had the 3 speed hydramatic [slim jim].
    Just curios as to what transmission is in your Jetstar 1 if its not a slim jim.
     
  5. Are they supposed to go in dry or with something smeared on them?
     
  6. I used Loctite 515 on them.
     
  7. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,965

    Paul
    Editor

    I use contact adhesive
     
  8. GOATROPER02
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,059

    GOATROPER02
    Member
    from OHIO

    Just a little dab of rtv
     
  9. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,843

    CGkidd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How did I miss this one.
     
  10. pgj
    Joined: Dec 24, 2010
    Posts: 129

    pgj
    Member
    from aurora co.

    I was wrong. I pulled the trans out of my jetstar last night and it's a hydra-matic. it went to hell a couple of months ago and i'm putt'in in a 700r4. sorry for the miss info, I was going by what my trans thought it was.
     
  11. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Ok, I have some time on my hands, So (as usual) I have been crunching some numbers, and I have come up with some that look questionable.
    In the Street Rodder rocket build,Doc Frohmader gave a nominal crank centerline/deck for the late 394 tall deck blocks of 10.69. The short deck 303/324 blocks are supposed to be 1/4 shorter than the late 394s, right? So that gives me a nominal deck of 10.44 for the 303/324s? I also found a compression distance for the stock 324 pistons in my old Sealed Power catalog of 1.895. All the sources I have looked at say the 303 and 324 pistons have the same compression distance, so if I add the rod length of 6.625 to half the stock 3.4375 stroke, and add the 1.895 compression distance of the stock 303/324 pistons, and subtract that from the nominal 10.44 deck, I get a dismal factory piston/deck clearance of -.20125!!! Thats WAAAAAY down the hole! Is this right?? Or is the crank centerline/deck number that Frohmader published a crock of shit? Maybe Goatroper or Paul can answer this??
    Also can anyone give me a number for the rod big end width for either the tall or short deck rods? According to July '57 Hot Rod, the short deck rods are .070 wider than the late rods. Anybody know a nominal big end width for either rod?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  12. GOATROPER02
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,059

    GOATROPER02
    Member
    from OHIO

    BS....
    Only interest Frohmader had in an Olds(or any breed of engine for that matter) was to suck free parts out of suppliers for personal gain......My father spend many hours on the ph with him trying to give him correct info for articles he did.....we didnt even get a kiss my ass at the end of the credit line......after being promised fame and fortune:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Rod widths
    .995 303/324
    .935 57-58 371
    .935 59-64

    deck heights
    10.265 303/324
    10.365 57-58 371
    approx 10.620 59-64
     
  13. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    PERFECT! And it all falls into place. Thanks! And thats not the first comment of that sort I have heard on Frohmader either...;)
     
  14. Alright so I'm quite sure that I have read all 3 major Oldsmobile rocket threads and haven't found my answer (Or I just plain missed it).

    Is there a difference between a J2 crankshaft and a non j2 crankshaft? As far as I know there is no difference, even if it had the w-1 package.

    The reason I ask is some guy is trying to sell me a crankshaft that he says a "J2" crank and I just don't believe/want to argue that there is a difference. From what I read the j2 is just the intake pretty much right?

    Can someone clarify this for me?
     
  15. Intake and cam, as far as I know...
     
  16. GOATROPER02
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,059

    GOATROPER02
    Member
    from OHIO

    Thin head gaskets,cam,intake set up.....that is all.
     
  17. speedshifter
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 211

    speedshifter
    Member

    Great info. Wasn't Rocket the absuluteiy best name that could have been given to the really hot 303-324engine at that preiod of time? One of the threads mentioned overboring cyl walls contributing to overheating. I read an article stating that thinner cyl walls will allow the heat of combustion to be dissipated more efficiently into the coolant,since it will be closer to it.(assuming the compression ratio remains the same & the cyl walls don't flex excessively) I hope to get your views on this. Greg
     
  18. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,965

    Paul
    Editor

    for no reason at all here is a shot of some of my growing collection

    [​IMG]
     
    mario711 and senginc like this.
  19. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,103

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Turbo?
     
  20. lowrider49
    Joined: Oct 3, 2010
    Posts: 15

    lowrider49
    Member

    Hey thanks for all the olds info! I'm building a 56 324 to go in my 28 roadster when in done my 55 chebby. But I have a question, I have a 55 olds 98 and the 324 in it has different valve covers than the normal ones, no numbers on the heads in the usual spot and it's painted silver not green, is this one of the police car special engines?? What's different about them?
     
  21. Got a pic of those valve covers?
    No number on the heads would mean 303 heads.
     
  22. Pictures would help!

    That's what I was thinking.

    Or else, maybe someone hotted up the engine, smoothed the heads and painted it silver.
     
  23. You should also be able to look at the exhaust ports, and if they are round, it's 303.
    If they are more square with corners, it would be 324.
     
  24. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,965

    Paul
    Editor

    another Foxcraft, well three actually,
    'scored these on that auction site the other day

    they fit the selector style transmissions,
    one for the Olds and two with the same main shifter but different arms and rods
    Buick maybe?

    anyway, this is how they came in the box
    and how they look installed
    may need to add a brace or two to stiffen it up
    and a bit of modifying to the rod ends to let them work smoother


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  25. "You can adapt an old Oldsmobile Toronado front engine bracket to fit you 303. It even bolts up in the same place as the 303 bracket. Drill two holes & bolt it up." What bracket are you talking about.?the one for the alternator/ gen?
     
  26. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,965

    Paul
    Editor

    he is not talking about it, he cut and pasted something to this thread almost two years ago.
    you are talking to a ghost of the internet
     
  27. madmike3434
    Joined: Aug 14, 2009
    Posts: 691

    madmike3434
    Member

    wow, that's a ton of info on oldsmobile V8 49--64 motors.
    Here is what I had until 1996 when it came out because crank was worn on the sides. I bought the 35 Chevrolet coupe in `1970 and the motor was installed in it in 1964.

    It was a 1957 olds 2nd design, dip stick changed sides. Began life as a 371 in a 1957 olds fiesta wagon, tow car for a race car called "percy also" a C altered fiat national record holder.

    The motor when I got it was a 371 bored out 1/8" with further .0006 piston to walls clearance. End gap on rings was 40 thou. Crankshaft was stroked 1/4" by crankshaft company Toronto Canada. The 1964 394 pistons 10.5--1 compression were cut off right below piston pin skirt area was removed to clear the stroked crankshaft. No idea what the rods were other than stock 57's ?

    The heads were 1959--1960 and the valves and the intake ports were way bigger than a stock 1957 cylinder head. At one time I was running the J2 3x2 setup and decided after a couple of years to go back to a single 4 barrel with a 780 holley. Don't know what happened to the original intake that was on it. I found that the 59-60 intake I think the deck angle was different and would not just go on the 57 371 block. I went and found a 371 4 barrel intake, BUT, the intake ports were about 1/2 shorter than the 59--60 heads. We used cast iron welding rod and under the guidance of rick fendley master welder, welded the whole length to fill the gap. Took to machine shop and had it made straight.

    The camshaft....took what was in motor and took to a cam grinder winters motors and asked him to put a 283 FI grind on the cam. Was hydraulic lifters that sounded like solids. With 3.54 gears + thornton power lock ( jaguar ) , long custom made headers, car would beat stock 454 chevelles by car length and ran 12.31 at 118 mph at dragstrip in 1976, on michelin street radials 235 x 70 15 .

    Even tho a bunch of things that should not have worked , did, the low and mid range power would pin you in the seat with the 4 speed olds auto hydrostick. First gear on those trans is 3.96--1 and would really get you moving quickly.

    When I took the motor out in 1996 the crankshaft needed submerged arc welding to build the crankshaft sides back up as you could stick a squashed cig filter tip between the rods. Just a little clearance !!!! and the crank was 30/30 mains and rod journels.

    Motor was 421--422 cubes and exactly 2 1/2" shorter than a big block chevy with short water pump. The olds fit the 35 chevy standard series engine bay , but the big block would not, with a fan on motor. unless firewall was altered, wasn't doing that, bye bye all aluminum BBC can-am motor

    Sold the complete motor and trans to a guy who was going to rebuild it and put it in a bantam roadster altered class A/A drag car running at vintage meets.

    That olds motor would scare you. My ZZ4 350 sbc modified to 420hp hardly has the same wicked punch and torquiness of the olds..

    great bunch of info on the olds series 49--65
    mike lynch :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  28. Zaloryan
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 25

    Zaloryan
    Member

    Wow. I log on this website about every two weeks to check out new developments on this thread hoping to help other Oldsmobile enthusiasts. I spent a lot of time putting all of these posts together (granted it wasn't my information and some mistakes got through) and was considering making an early Cadillac Engine Guide as well but now I'm thinking I'll pass...

    This was pulled from one of DON_WOW's posts, (also known as Jerry Weger, a member emeritus) you should be able to find it through his profile. From what I gathered from his post, the early Toronado engine transmission setup used two engine mounts and one transmission mounts. The early generation I Oldsmobile engines used one front engine mount and two transmission mounts. Due to this, developing headers for the 50s Oldsmobiles is difficult because the transmission mounts get in the way. I believe DON_WOW was pointing out a different set of brackets that could be used to free up some underhood room for exhaust fabrication and the like.
     
  29. Man, don't get too twisted up about it. :rolleyes: You certainly did a good job of compiling information here. A lot of guys have found it a useful, myself included. I'm sure a bunch more would find a Cadillac guide useful too. If you want to undertake the leg work, I say kudos to you. Get it done man! :)

    But by your own omission, it's not your info, and some mistakes made it through. I was confused about the Toronado bracket info as well! It was a quick blurb sandwiched in between rear main seal leaks and 371/394 pistons. Didn't really mention which bracket and where exactly it was bolting up.
    You compiled it all. Don't be defensive if someone else didn't explain things fully.


    I'm actually still confused on that. haha As you say, the 303 is one motor mount up front and two transmission mounts. The Toronado mount mentioned is the front engine bracket. Still won't change the two transmission mounts. Unless the front engine mount from the Toronado is supposed to be used to mount the transmission? :confused:
    (See? It's confusing!)
     
  30. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,735

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    Awesome thread.
     

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