Technical Looking to buy a t-bucket, trying to distinguish between deferred maintenance and actual problems.

Looks to be a ton of "cartoon car" there. It could be very well built OR it could be a dolled up hot mess. I would have to go over it with a fine tooth comb to be sure

 

One of those inexpensive, hand-held, laser, temp guns is the best thing since sliced bread for checking the cooling system. You can point and click the hoses, upper/lower radiator, the oil pan, and corner-to-corner on the block and heads. Expect to see a gradation of temp in the radiator, for example, but there shouldn't be big contrasts or hot spots in the heads or block. Plus, you will look very impressive to the seller while you are doing the "checking", too.
The steering wheel sitting higher than the windshield is a clue to the ergonomics of where you will sit and your line of sight. Will you be "in the car" or "on the car"? Get your ass in the seat. You may find that it's a "turn-off" and not a "turn-on", after all.

 

I know you missed the second one you showed. Personally that style and its looks makes it sound like that’s what you are looking for. Yes if I wanted a T bucket that would be it.

Even thou it’s not a RR and well done so are many of the RR “appearing” cars showing up at local cruises where I live. Great paint and interiors but just to “cartoony” to be practical. And none are comfortable for even 30 minutes.
I would keep looking.
On eBay alone there are many for sale in classic car show rooms and top of the line ones are 25K. $15 is the typical 350-350 nicely done car, licensed and running without killer engines. Good luck.

 

And...how/what is it titled as? If he's calling it a t-bucket (I might be putting words in the sellers mouth) and it's made from cut up model A panels (a side note, I don't see any roadster panels)....

There are some neat parts assembled together...may or may not be right, may or may not be an easy fix (I suspect not, else they would be done), the proportions are a bit cartoonish (as others have said)... Frankly, if the car was fully sorted and able to go down the road trouble/worry free...I think the price of 1/2 of his reported $50k parts investment would be close to all the money. At that price, with unknown issues, I would keep walking, don't look back, just keep walking.

 

cuzwhat;
Spend a couple hrs reading thru ~ the 1st half of the postings from the Bucket of Ugly thread.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-bucket-of-ugly-a-de-uglifying-thread.824491/
Chip knows what he's talking about, & then demonstrates how-to-do-it. . You'll learn a lot. From what little you said, I'm guessing that flathead rod isn't what you want. My eyes hurt after looking at it. Maybe I couldn't build better, but those proportions are so far off, it'd be easier to start fresh. Unless you only want some of the parts.
Just my opinion.
Marcus....

 

I don’t have a horse in this race and it’s not my money. However it’s not the shape of the body but the fact it’s been sectioned too much. If the top of the cowl was even with the top of the radiator shell it would look fine. That would bring the top of the windshield higher and allow driver to sit lower in body. There are a lot of T Buckets that give the illusion of sitting on top of it rather than inside. That’s why 26 or other year modifiers look so cool. Your mileage may vary

 

Pics look nice, BUT= in these quotes= YOUR FL expertise?, common knowledge of how a cooling system operates?
Then, the sellers comments about another flatty? Do you see any red flags here???
We all have dived off the deep end at some point - Do you know your stuff??
One bitten, twice shy....... But, I hope your flatty game....As they say= Knowledge is power......

 

I am not one to tell someone not to buy something they like. But, after you get it running good and have some fun, You may tire of the whole roadster feel, (believe me I know) you may want to move on to a different type hot rod, This car may be hard to sell as it doesn't look like is an actual car but a bunch of parts nicely put together for a look. Resale value will take a hit, also check how it is titled? It doesn't have the look of an "A" or a "T". That may sour you on the whole hot rod scene. What is there looks like some time and money has been spent on the build. Just not wisely spent. Sorry, just my thoughts and I would like to welcome you to the great family of hot rodders we have here and have you stick around.

 

I don't see any panels on that car that are model T or model A, the body lines on the door look like early Chevy to me, only the windshield posts look like 26-27 T, and I agree, it's sectioned/channeled too much, radiator too high compared to the body, and the seating position looks bad.

But that's personal taste. What I really want to know is why are the upper radiator hoses curled around like a pig's tail? The top of the thermostat housings look like they're above the radiator cap, and those thermostat housings are angled weirdly, also the upper radiator outlets are pitched downward and the hoses on them do a McDonalds Playground slide loop to get to the heads to get to those sideways thermostat housings.

I'm no expert at cooling systems, but every other flathead (including my own) has straight-out radiator necks at the top, and then travel downhill to the heads.

 

you raise some valid points about the hose routing, those uppers do seem unnecessarily long and curvy. When I looked at the car, the hoses were slightly different from how they are in these pictures, but not any better. I feel like these pictures are probably 5 to 10 years old.

thanks for the input!

 

The listing suggests it’s a “21 T-bucket”. When I asked him how it was titled, he seemed to suggest that it was titled as a 21. I didn’t see any parts in the car that suggested OE from 21. The frame is custom, the engine and transmission are listed as later parts, and on reflection, the body isn’t from 21. So I don’t know if he had a 21 title laying around and he has hammered those numbers into this frame and now that’s what this car is according to the state, or what.

 

I have kept silent, but. I would walk away from this one. Looks more like garage art then a hot rod that can be driven, and enjoyed while driving. Just my 2 cents. Yea it looks cool but will it function and perform with out a ROADKILL episode every time it is takin out for a romp?

 

Hello,

Several years after my wife and I were on our own, we had a whole new outlook ahead of us. Our families were probably glad to see us go out on our own and see what the big time world has in store for us. Both of us came from different backgrounds, but that did not matter. We both adapted to each other’s quirks and it was a new life ahead for both of us. Together, we saw the world differently than our families and we headed where we thought was the right course for both of us.

After several years of doing our own thing, we decided to buy another hot rod to help us in our business. the 65 El Camino was the workhorse for play, travel and daily drives to whatever. Our liking of old cars was still burning and we wanted to try and see what we could do if we got another old hot rod.

We wanted a 46 Ford woody, but that fell through due to some rules out of our control. So, we saw an old 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery that looked like the one I had in high school. Although it looked similar, this one had a 327 SBC for power. It was also finished nicely with louvers in the hood, black rims and small hubcaps and full upholstery. No more empty cave in the back. And, there was plenty of horsepower that made hills look like flat roads. The old Flathead motor from high school increased the effort when climbing steep hills in the different areas of So Cal.

Our new purchase was set up as we liked and drove it home with much glee. But, by the time we got it home, it was a handling mess. The front shook upon braking, the sedan delivery drifted from side to side in the lanes and stopping took forever to come to a complete stop, even with the pedal to the floor. So, we knew we had to do something to make it safe for my wife to use it anytime she wanted to drive it.

Jnaki

Your choice of a T-Bucket is odd. Since the seller is a little shady in your description, one would wonder if he had any idea of what was for sale. For the things mentioned, one would think it was a “walk away” sale. If one does not prep a car for sale so that it is safe for the next person buying it, is a recipe for disaster from all sides. Your description gives a lot of suspicion that the seller does not know what is what and that in itself should warn you to walk away. A T-Bucket is not much of a rolling tank for safety, as it has the minimum for protection.

But, if you are seeing problems, have questions, and the seller is not knowledgeable about the build, then those in itself are walk away points. Safety and reliability are the most important for any car, let alone one that was put together from someone that does not know or pretends to not know what is what.

There are plenty of other hot rods out there and unless you are on your last hot rod search and this is the only one for you, then walk away. If you want to spend countless hours in your garage or in a hot rod shop to fix the safety aspects of the roadster, then get your cash out. If you have second doubts, then the answer is easy…

In our case, it took me months of work, almost everyday, to see what it was doing and how to go about fixing it. When we got to a point that we could not figure our the next in line problem, we had to go to an expert in suspension and braking. We did not see the sedan delivery for days. Our friend spent hours in his shop repairing, replacing what was needed. He had steps to make it a safe old car for us to drive daily in any type of weather that So Cal and Northern California could throw at us. YRMV

 

I don't see anything in the pictures to indicate proper Ackerman , yes the drag link is behind the axle , but that alone doesn't make correct Ackerman .

 

I was referring to the fact that Ackerman is most likely achievable. There are no details to show any of the other suspension or drivetrain so everything is a best guess. This car looks like whoever did it had a decent knowledge of roadster chassis construction as can be determined from the pics at hand. Is it a perfect specimen? Don't think so. If you saw some of the stuff that comes in here it's an absolute gem. It is possible, although more difficult to achieve decent Ackerman with the tie rod up front but not impossible. For the record, I'm sure there's a hundred guys out there with front tie rods that drive acceptably. Old Total Performance cars all ran front tie rods.

The stuff that bothers me on this car is the height of the body, the lack of alignment with the grill shell and just personally, the weird tailights. Not sure how the body was constructed but it is shiney. Would I pay 25K for it? Probably not but that is what negotiations are all about. There is no doubt in my mind the owner may have the 50 into it. It is rare to recupe build costs on shop built cars. It does look like a good start on a cool car. If you're looking for a car that you hit the key and drive for 200K miles you're probably in the wrong hobby.

 

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that there is always another car/hot rod just around the bend. If you miss out on the one that you really wanted, just wait, another one will come up. Maybe not the same model, maybe not even the same style, but one that ticks all the boxes for you anyway. Personally I'd let this one go. For the price range you're talking about there are a lot of nice cars out there; have you scrolled through the classified's here yet? Good luck which ever way you go.

 

pass

 

if I had $25,000 and wanted a T style roadster that would not be the car for me. the fact that he spent $50,000 on it means nothing, there are 500 guys on here who could build the same car for $10,000.
I'd have to wear a full face motorcycle helmet to "ride" that one.

 

The owner of the T bucket pointed at another flathead he was going to build. If the owner is knowledgeable on flatheads then leave it to the owner to resolve the heating and circulation issues. Have the owner call you back when all the issues are resolved if you are still interested. There is no way to know if it is a number of small problems or a serious mess. In any event that should not be the buyers gamble.

 

Welcome to the HAMB! Lots of advice here, and I agree with just about everyone. Judging from your comments, you want to move from mini trucks and other modern stuff to a hot rod. You haven't said where you are and how big you are, so I don't have regional advice and will assume you are average size.

T buckets are a common 'entry level' hot rod for price, simplicity and a raw basic experience.

If it's price, you have the option of looking at off brands and less popular body styles for a more regular driving experience for the value.

If it's simplicity, look for a T bucket that is built from a 'kit' with a SBC. Parts and labor will be much more standard than something built with all sorts of different parts. This is the more advanced rodder built mix and match. Nothing wrong with that, but not great for a first experience.

If it's about the overpowered go kart wind in your face feel, make sure whichever one you pick fits YOU or can be modified to fit within your budget. I'm 6'4" and do not fit in a standard T worth a darn.

Try to find local people and shows that will allow you to learn about and hopefully sit in various cars. As mentioned, the Bucket Of Ugly is a great thread here, another is How about some love for the T-Bucket? which will give you lots of different cars to look at and learn to spot the differences. When you can ID split bones VS hairpins, Vega VS Corvair box, transverse leaf VS coils and shocks VS coilovers and sitting In VS sitting On, and even spot ones you fit in, you will be more ready. With an eye toward the basic mechanicals such as wiring, plumbing and proper fasteners, you should have some of the basics needed for discerning a good buy. Just spend a little more time educating yourself on this exact style so you can buy with confidence. The Speedway T bucket catalog has lots of info and while this is THE hot rod forum, https://www.tbucketplans.com/ has a lot of info too.
This is the best time to buy (winter), but spending a month or 2 getting up to speed will make you a more informed buyer.

 

Full pass. While the "small fixes" needed may be simple, they prevent you from test driving the car. Hence, in my eyes, it's a "project car".
Red flags: the seller manually turned on the electric fan at startup, essentially not letting the engine work up to operating temp. Why!? Clutch doesn't work so you can't drive the car (like you would ANY car you were buying) to road test the basic functions of the car to include engine, clutch, trans shifting, steering, brakes, suspension to include bump steer, vibration, etc, etc. IMHO, it would be foolish to spend big $ on this car w/o being able to drive it. You may fix the clutch and find the car runs, shifts, drives, rides, steers and brakes like shit.
As mentioned, body sculpting could be full of bondo (needs a magnet).

The aesthetic lines of the car (even for a "bucket" ) are goofy:

• the front spring covers half the grille
• the grille shell sits way higher than the cowl
• the body is channeled and sectioned way too much. The distance from the seat bottom surface to the sill is about the same as a desk chair. Unless you're 5' tall, your face will be above the windshield.
• the steering wheel is higher than the windshield at an extreme column angle.
• top mounted taillights could be relocated
• Would look better with roll bar, windshield and headers chromed or ss ($$$)

 

I appreciate y’all’s help on this thread.

I’m sorry that my recent thread about how to determine exactly what parts a twenty year old build might be made from turned into “let’s shit on the new guy for following the advice we gave him in this thread” before it was nuked entirely.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that the people who have responded "shit on the new guy". I'm sure that was not their intention, they are giving you some sound advice based on years of experience. A few years back, a HAMB member who was not far away from me had bought an actual running, driving T-bucket with excellent paint and interior just for the wheels. He put different wheels on it and put it up for sale at a price a quarter of what your seller says he has in his. I saw it and fell in lust with it then made a trip to see it. It was a perfect, well built car, 350-350, everything I thought I wanted, until I tried to fit my 6 foot 240 pound self into it. Getting in was easier than getting out. I doubt that I would have ever been comfortable in it.

 

The advice in this thread was excellent and I took a lot of it to heart in my search for the right car for me.

I created a new thread with pics of the new car trying to see if anyone could point me in a direction on how to validate claims of a 20 yr old build that does not have documentation. The advice I saw there was basically the insulting versions of “the car is too street rod”. Someone probably had a legit concern about the front end, but the thread got nuked before I could find out what the problem (or the front end) was.

I guess the car (CCR long body with 350/350 and IRS) was way too aesthetically modern for this board.

Again, I did not mean to offend, I just thought this board would be the most knowledgeable place to start for identifying bits and pieces.

 

I saw your second post and thought the car was a good progression from the bucket in this post. The car had a lot of expensive parts used on even if it wasn’t everyone cup of tea. When I saw the post it had only a couple posts but by morning it was gone. I thought your questions were reasonable and that is the way we all learn. Probably everyone here has had a post deleted and I have no idea why yours was deleted because I didn’t see the content. There is a lot of knowledge here unfortunately there are also some grumpy old men here with sometimes poor attitudes. As in “get off my lawn”. Don’t let it stop you from asking questions, unfortunately our ranks are depleting and we need participation from everyone.

 

I may be missing something but how would a fan keep the thermostats closed? Heat from the engine opens the stats. Mechanical fans run all the time, I don’t see how an electric one being on would be part of the problem. Thermostats stuck, obstruction some
where or bad pump.

 

Twenty five grand is a lot of money for a car you can’t take for a ride.

 

Sorry about your other thread, I didn't see it.
One of the emeritus members here, Tfeverfred, was building his second car something similar to what you described. and it was tolerated, but he never finished it.
He had a build thread for his first T,
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/my-t-bucket.240337/#post-2553163
and one when he rebuilt it
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tearing-down-miss-behavin.324235/

a car that ended up as one of the examples for the wiki page for T-bucket
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-bucket
but the second build, Black Dahlia was just part of the Bucket of Ugly thread around pages 300 to 350. He rarely showed up in his pictures, they always focused on the parts and inspirations, but i dug this picture up to honor the man. Miss you, Fred.