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chevy ll 4 banger ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lilbill, Nov 24, 2006.

  1. Fast411
    Joined: Sep 2, 2010
    Posts: 19

    Fast411
    Member
    from Montana

    Be a neat thing to develop a cast aluminum pan for these. I've got a Chevy II car 153 my Dad put in our CJ5 many years ago and I'm replacing it with 120hp Mercruiser 153. The car 153 had water in the oil and oil in the water, so I'm curious if it has a bad head gasket or a crack somewhere. Had to swap pans and oil pickups. Got a new repro exhaust manifold from Rock Auto. The original exhaust manifold was corroded and had small cracks. I've got another core 153 car engine and and another 153 Mercruiser with a hairline crack in the block. Also have a bare 153 block, so plenty of extra parts to built another one if the Mercruiser I'm installing doesn't work out. I noticed some small differences in the 153 passenger car head and the 153 120hp Mercruiser head.....the center exhaust ports are cast slightly different as they exit, but perfectly compatible with the car manifold.
     
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  2. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    I have been able to buy a center sump pan. Application unknown but seeing the color of its paint, I believe it’s an OMC marine application. I’m using it for mock-up right now but will try to get a picture soon.


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  3. Does anyone have any links to get some engine specs or measurements?
    I have a nice stock bore 181, would like to put a set of 4" TRW 327 flat tops in it, with 5.7" H beam Eagle rods that were in one of my 250 Chevs. Will this work?
    I can not find any spec stuff...
    Thanks!

    -Shiny
     
  4. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 11,548

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    If it worked in the 250 it seems like it would work in a 153. I think the 181 has a longer stroke even though the block is more or less the same save for bore size.

    hopefully someone chimes in
     
  5. justabeater37
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,281

    justabeater37
    Member

    The 250 was a 3.875" bore with 3.53" stroke, The 181 is a 4" bore with 3.6" stroke, 153 is 3.875" bore with 3.25" stroke
     
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  6. Phil1934
    Joined: Jun 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,713

    Phil1934
    Member

    181 is 2.1" rod big end, others are 2"
     
  7. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,509

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    153 and 181 rod lengths are the same length 5.7 the bearing is 2" and 2.10" as noted above. The rods are identical to small block rods except the small block is narrower from being machined so two can sit side by side. The use the same bearing as do the sixes. I'm not sure about 250s. but I think they are the same rod length and different stroke was handled by piston pin height.
    In my 153 with a 181 crank & 181 rods Ross forged 250 pistons stick about .020" out the top. These pistons came from 12 Bolt Tom and I think were made a bit taller than regular 250 pistons. It all worked perfect with published specs but not when the pieces were assembled. If your rods are 5.7" it will probably work But if they a 6" maybe not. Funny things happen with numbers. Sometimes things just don't add up. :eek:
     
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  8. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    Pics of the center sump pan IMG_0554.JPG IMG_0555.JPG IMG_0553.JPG





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  9. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,509

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    It should be pretty easy to convert a small block Chevy or shorten a six of the same Chevy family, 194,230, 250 292
     
  10. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    My plans are coming together with all you guy's help. I'm waiting on delivery of a 181 block so the "real" engine can go together. In the meantime, since I have a 153, I'm using it for mock-up. Plans call for a quality rebuild using flat top Sealed Power pistons, Isky hyd cam, balanced, aluminum cam gear. I have a 181 marine head that has been ported, modified for screw-in studs, stock 1.94/1.60 valves, hardened seats etc.. I may not use the valve cover in the pics but go with a 140 mercruiser aluminum valve cover and side cover. The header is one that came with the 153 and will need some small amount of redo for steering shaft clearance. Vac advance chevy distributor with electronic module. Haven't fully decided on what I'm going to do with carb but am considering modifying a stock ChevyII intake to accept a 325 Holley 2 barrel. I already have a couple of 'transition' plates to allow me to mate this manifold to the 8 port head. The manifold itself will take some modification to the carb mount and I'll need to do an adapter that matches the carb base. All this will run thru a S-10 5 speed to a quick-change reared.
     

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  11. chiliman
    Joined: Oct 8, 2011
    Posts: 71

    chiliman
    Member
    from liberty mo
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    What kind of body you gona have A roster pickup my motor is a lot closer to front crosmember
     
  12. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    It’s a roadster on 32 rails. The difference is in the wheelbase between Model A and 32


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  13. chiliman
    Joined: Oct 8, 2011
    Posts: 71

    chiliman
    Member
    from liberty mo
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

  14. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,509

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    That's looking good. Progress in wonderful.
     
  15. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    Thank you. Car had a 327 before. Wanted something different this time around.


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  16. Tony Main
    Joined: Sep 29, 2016
    Posts: 6

    Tony Main
    Member

    Long and winding thread, but lots of great information. I'm building a Chevy II to go midget racing indoors. Fontana head, Arias block, (also have a Ford Motorsport block and Fontana head to build #2, it was blown up much worse than Arias block). Starting to run into issues for water pump options, atleast cam driven water pumps, have parts for a EVM marine pump, making new parts will likely get expensive for vintage pump.
    Do any of you guys have cam driven pump setups that could help me? (3 stage dry sump oil pump will be belt driven)
    Thanks,

    20200112_191308.jpg 20200112_190158.jpg
     
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  17. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,574

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Neat! I never knew that Arias made an engine block.
    The "Hecho en Gardena Ca" is a cute touch.
     
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  18. v860rich
    Joined: Nov 6, 2006
    Posts: 33

    v860rich
    Member

    I have quite a few of the 181 marine engines and blocks that were used in midgets. I also have a couple of vintage midgets with those engines.
    I guess the front of your block is the same as the Mercury? Do you have a after market front cover that will accept a cam driven water pump?

    THANX RICH
     
  19. Tony Main
    Joined: Sep 29, 2016
    Posts: 6

    Tony Main
    Member

    Yes I have (EVM)front covers that would accept cam driven fuel/water pumps. I will probably end up using a KSE water pump (will have to modify and find a straight vane impeller for the reverse rotation), spending 400+ on making one off parts for an old pump doesn't sound smart in long run as the KSE would be common. (We run them on our sprint cars without issue for years)
    I believe the front of the block is based on the 153, but I haven't seen a 181 up close to compare. I can try and take some photos when I'm in the shop this weekend.
     
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  20. v860rich
    Joined: Nov 6, 2006
    Posts: 33

    v860rich
    Member

    The last new 4 cyl water pump I bought was from Ron's Fuel Injection service in Tuscon AZ
    Ph 520 573 6890 http://ronsfuel.com/contact.cfm
    That was years ago but he may still have something that will work.
    Yes the 181 block is the same as the 153.in the area where the front cover bolts on.
    Also if I remember correctly you can't just bolt on a V8 pump and have it work. The impeller may be what you need to change, I don't remember for sure!!

    THANX RICH
     
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  21. Tony Main
    Joined: Sep 29, 2016
    Posts: 6

    Tony Main
    Member

    Yes the 153 cam rotation is opposite that of a V8, we have to be careful on fuel and power steering pumps as well getting "reverse" rotation.

    As interesting side note this is an old Fontana flyer I had found. Fontana 4 cyl-2.JPG
     
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  22. Tony Main
    Joined: Sep 29, 2016
    Posts: 6

    Tony Main
    Member

    Thought these photos may be interesting to you guys, the Ford block is very similar to the Arais the lifter cover plate being the biggest difference I've found. It kind of went boom in it's last life, we'll rebuild it some day.
    20200218_175304.jpeg 20200218_175729.jpeg 20200218_175320.jpeg 20200218_175337.jpeg
     
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  23. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    My 181 (not pictured) is about ready for final assembly. Machining, trial fit of new pistons, cam to check valve clearances etc. accomplished. Next is to send out the rotating bits for balance. Except for final grinding etc. I’ve finished my intake manifold and the modifications to my header. I needed clearance for both steering shaft and alternator. The show goes on.


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  24. v860rich
    Joined: Nov 6, 2006
    Posts: 33

    v860rich
    Member

    Bill, That looks like a nice bit of kit you've got there.
    I'm glad everything is coming together for you.

    THANX RICH
     
  25. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,305

    gearheadbill
    Member

    Thank you Rich. You’ve been really helpful and I appreciate it.


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  26. Tony Main
    Joined: Sep 29, 2016
    Posts: 6

    Tony Main
    Member

    IMG_20200514_194634_524.jpg
    Little more progress on mine. Next steps finish oil pump bracket, and plumb. Then get the race car ready.
     
  27. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 890

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    I have casting patterns to cast the FI intakes for the Duggan 8 port heads along with several raw castings. They look like they would fit the Fontana head.
     
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  28. Tony Main
    Joined: Sep 29, 2016
    Posts: 6

    Tony Main
    Member

    Interesting! I think all the Fontana injections are Hilborn or Kinser, both mine measure 2-7/16" butterflies.
     
  29. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 890

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    I think I still have a pic of the head. I'll post it and you can see how similar they are.
     
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  30. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,509

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

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