I've got a completely stock Model A and in the process of converting to hydraulic brakes and a t-5 transmission. The t-5 came out of a 85 s10 blazer 4x4 but didn't have a tag on it. I'm guessing that it's got the 4.03 first gear and the 0.86 overdrive. This will be a torque tube conversion calling for the 4x4 transmission. I'm also running 700x16 rear tires. My question is, will the 4.03 be a pain in the ass to drive or should I change the gear set prior to installation. If changing the gears, where do I get the a new gear set because looking online doesn't show anyone selling the complete gear set. Usually what I find is the gears for the overdrive. The plans call for installing a 36 or 49 flathead in a year or so, which I already have. I would like to be able to drive 60-65 on freeway and the only tires spinning would be if I were caught in the snow.
Can't answer your question but that's a sweet Model A. I thought bumpers on A's were straight between the brackets.
Contact Krylon 32 orV8COOPMAN My impression is that what you have, will get you a 16:1 rollout Desirable is about 12:1 Having overdrive may makeup for wanting to skip 1st, + pullout in 2nd.
Yes, or .76 Good chart for T5 ratios here: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm There's not going to be a ton of aftermarket anything for the non-WC T5 in my experience. I rebuilt an M-van non-WC T5 in 2009 and had to do a lot of searching for a gear I needed. Just have to Google, write down part numbers, and hope you find what you need. Maybe a complete, already rebuilt and assembled trans would be a better option?
I've sold 100's of rebuilt non world class transmissions to my T5 customers. Parts are still available if you know where to look. My trans guy is doing another for me now.
I've got a s10 t5 in my model A with a mostly stock 283. It would be nice to find a better gear set but for now I always start out in 2nd and treat it like a 4 speed. Phil
The 93-02 V6 camaro/firebird also has a WC T5 with the same ford-style case. The gears are: 3.75 2.19 1.41 1.00 0.72 The 3.8 versions have an HTOB, the early 2.8 and 3.4 cars had external slave cylinders. I like the stock style HTOB, actually. Not sure when it changed, but earlier models had a speedo drive, the later ones have a pickup wheel. The clutch disc is 26 teeth, 1 1/8", 9 11/16" diameter. The trans mount is on a 17degree tilt, but if you're swapping to a S10 tailshaft that's not an issue. Not a lot of difference between it and a 4.03 S10 first gear, but these are a lot easier to find. Around here they are only $150 - $200. If you have the S10 box you could just swap over the tailshaft and get a better OD and first.
I have bought a lot of parts from MDL. (Modern Drive Line) They may have gear sets to swap out. I also sold a 4.03 first to a Model A guy with a hopped up banger and he said he really likes it!
Yes, but you can look at the S-series applications and narrow it down considerably. Not a huge difference either way on the 5th/overdrive gear, but you can always open the case and count the number of teeth on each gear to be 100% sure.
You didn't mention the rear end ratio. It could be a 3.78...or a 4.11. Things get changed out in model A's. I'm thinking you need to look at the final drive ratio with the whole set up and the rolling diameter of the tire might make you want to go to a 7.50. Likely isn't going to be a problem as the V-8 doesn't mind higher RPM's but cruising highway speeds at lower RPM is less engine revolutions per mile = last longer I have gotten all my T-5 parts from Allstate gear
I found a 85 mustang nwc donor transmission and I'm hearing that I can use the gears out of it except retain the tail shaft from the 4x4 trans. Already got new 7.00 16 Firestones on the car.
With the 30.1 inch tall tire, 4.03 rear and .86 OD you would be running right at 2700 at 70, or 2580 at 65 . That's with this calculator that only gives you rpm when you plug speed, tire size , rear gear ratio and trans output ratio into it. Calculate RPM for Given Speed(MPH), Rear Gear Ratio, and Trans Gear Ratio (purperformance.com) With this one you can get any of four factors by plugging in the other three. Tire Size, RPM, Speed, and Differential Ratio Calculator (advanced-ev.com) You do have to multiply the rear gear ratio by the over drive ratio to get the actual final drive ratio though. a 4.03 x.86 = 3.46 final drive.
When I find one with a missing I.D. tag, I put it in 5th, chalk the input and output, give the input one revolution, and see where the output lands.
I use a 4.03/.86OD T5 in my 47 chevy with an original 216. Best thing I did to the car, so much more usable in today's traffic vs the old 3 speed column shifted crash box. It is great with plenty of grunt to pull out in first, most of the time I am under 1800RPM putting around in 3rd/4th but I can also do well over 80MPH on flat highway but all this only works well because I have a 3.08 rear. Something will have to give in your selection of parts.
A model A has highest torque rating at 1000 rpm and highest HP rating at 2000 rpm. I've also read that it's usually cruises at 2000 rpm. Using the above calculator from Mr.48 chevy; 53 mph / 30.6 tires/rear end ratio 3.78 with 1. 0 4th gear. 2199.81 rpm 61 mph /30.6 tires /rear end ratio 3.78 with .86 OD 2177.4 rpm 65 mph /30.6 tires/ rear end ratio 3.78 with.72 OD 1942.48 rpm Until I install one of the two flatheads I have that has the ability to cruise at 2500 rpm, I gues I'll just have to see if I an find a .72 5th gear.
Ultimate T5 Reference https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-ultimate-t-5-article.171291/ There is a lot of confusion regarding the Borg-Warner T-5 and which one to use in an early Ford car. Terms like world-class & non-world class are intermingled with gear ratios and torque ratings, shifter positions and speedometer drive type. This article will try to help clear up some of these issues. The confusion surrounding which T-5 is best is understandable. An extremely versatile transmission, B-W modified this tranny to suit different applications several times over its 13-year primary production run (1982-1995) before being acquired by Tremec and discontinued for most OEM use. In truth, the confusion stems from its versatility, and that is a good thing. Replacing an early Ford floor-shift 3-speed requires a forward shifter location. This location is found in T-5 transmissions used in S-10, T-10, Astrovan, & Jeep transmissions. While the T-5 was used by AMC, Ford, GM, Isuzu, Nissan, Ssang, & TVR (among others - even an agricultural sprayer!) This article will focus on three main OEM applications: Mustang, Camaro/Firebird, & S-10. IDENTIFYING A T-5 There is only one positive way to identify which T-5 you have and that is by using the metal tag attached to one of the tail housing bolts. The number will look like this: 13-52-XXX, where XXX is a three-digit number unique to the specific make/model application. There are several online T-5 number decoders, but one of the easiest to use is found at http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html - at the bottom you can use the drop-down menu to select your three-digit suffix and find the original application. Contrary to popular belief, you cannot tell gear ratios by application alone, only by tag number and then only if you have a comprehensive chart. So if your buddy tells you to get the T5 out of an S10 with a V6 because it has better gear ratios and/or it's stronger, that is simply not always true and you must reference the tag number. WORLD CLASS VS NON-WORLD CLASS In the beginning, there was no WC/NWC discussion as all transmissions were NWC. The WC designation began in 1985 with Ford using it in the 5.0 Mustang first. F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) began using WC units in 1988. The S10 didn't use WC until 1993. The differences between WC & NWC are principally in the bearings & synchros. Externally, there is one readily identifiable difference between WC & NWC (without having to know input sizes & spline counts) and that's the front countershaft bearing retainer. The NWC has a one-piece design that looks like a large welch/freeze plug while the WC has a two-piece design that looks like two concentric circles. Here's a pic of each (lifted from the HAMB): World Class Bearing Retainer Non World Class Bearing Retainer In 1993, GM began phasing in the WC units. While 1993 was a transition year and you may find either WC or NWC, the way to identify them is the93 and newer GM WC T-5 use the Ford case and bolt pattern, consequently, these will not bolt up to standard Chevy bellhousings. In general, WC is stronger than NWC, newer transmissions are stronger than older ones, and higher first gear ratios (lower numerically) are stronger than lower. The torque ratings are guides and typically represent lifetime 100,000 mile ratings. It is generally accepted that WC units can be made to live behind about 400hp as proven by the 5.0 Mustang crowd. There is no hard and fast rule; if you hammer it, it will break. These are classified as light duty transmissions, but that doesn't mean they won't work in hot rods! INPUT SHAFTS Ford NWC & WC (except 4-cyl) units used a 1-1/16" 10-spline input shaft. The 1994-95 Mustang T5 had a 0.67" longer input shaft & uses a unique bellhousing for the SN-95 platform. However, this input shaft can be swapped with a 1989-93 Mustang input shaft. GM used three different input shafts. The input shaft used behind V8 engines (both WC & NWC) was 1-1/8" 26-spline while the input shaft destined for 4/6 cylinder engines was 1" 14-spline. The exception to that is the1993-96 V6 F-body applications which used the 26-spline input shaft & the Ford case. It's important to note that that the S10 input shaft is about 5/8" longer than a standard Chevy input shaft, but otherwise is the same as the NWC Input shaft above. This comes into play at times when using most of the GM adapters on the market - sometimes the pilot bearing surface at the tip of the input shaft needs to be shortened and sometimes, the splines may need to be lengthened. It's very close, so always check your installation - many have gotten away without any work on the input shaft at all with careful selection of parts. SPEEDOMETER DRIVES Early T-5 used a typical gear-driven, cable speedometer drive while many late T-5 used an electronic speedometer drive. In GM applications, the changeover was about 1989. Ford used cable speedos through T-5 usage. WHICH T-5 TO USE S10 The S10 T-5 has garnered most of the attention due to its favorable shifter location. The S10, however, was a NWC unit through 1992. There are two basic gearsets available in the S10 T-5: 1st - 4.03 2nd - 2.37 3rd - 1.49 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.86 1st - 3.76 2nd - 2.18 3rd - 1.41 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.72 As a general rule of thumb, regardless of engine, ALL S10 T-5 prior to 1985 received the 4.03 gear set, while ALL S10 T-5 after 1986 got the 3.76 gearset. The S10 T-5 was also available in the equivalent GMC T-truck. The speedometer changed to electronic with the 1990 model year, however, some 1989 model T5 came with electronic speedos if they were equipped with the optional digital dash. These can prove problematic for swaps, but output shafts & tail housings can be swapped with cable-driven speedo models. There is some evidence that certain types of early electronic speedos can be converted to mechanical, but I have no experience with this. There are also cable converters out there, but they are not inexpensive. While not very common, the Astrovan T-5 is worth mentioning. With an offset shifter that can be replaced with an S10 shifter, it makes a good candidate for swaps too. The 4-cyl vans used the 3.76 gearset, but the ratios found behind the V6 are better than the S10: 1st- 3.50 2nd - 2.14 3rd - 1.39 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.78 Tag Numbers: S/T Truck 4.03 Gearset 010, 012, 013, 014, 033, 042, 043, 055, 056, 057, 058, 146 S/T Truck 3.76 Gearset 107, 108, 110, 136, 145, 186, 191, 192, 193, 201 Astrovan 3.76 Gearset 170, 180, 190 Astrovan 3.50 Gearset 101, 148, 149, 164, 179, 189 MUSTANG Introduced in 1983, the T-5 arguably gained its fame in the Mustang 5.0. The first to take the step up to WC in 1985, Ford used the T-5 through the Fox-body & SN-95 chassis ending in 1995. The strongest T-5 available was found in later Mustangs and available through Ford's Motorsport & SVO operations. Available with a few different gearsets, the most common gearing was from 1985 through 1995: 1st- 3.35 2nd 1.99 - 3rd 1.33 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.68 The other V8 gearset used was the NWC 1983-84: 1st - 2.95 2nd - 1.94 3rd - 1.34 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.62 Ford rated their T-5 anywhere from 260lb/ft to 335lb/ft depending on the application. In 1989, stronger alloys were used upping the torque rating from 260lb/ft to 300lb/ft. The 310lb/ft rating belonged to the 1993-94 Cobra spec T-5 and an aftermarket-only Z-spec T-5 was available with 335lb/ft. The late-model (1994-95) 3.8 V6 T-5 was rated at 265lb/ft, had the slightly longer input shaft, and had the following ratios: 1st - 3.35 2nd - 1.93 3rd - 1.29 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.73 Ford did use the T-5 in later V-6 Mustangs, but there is very little data on them. I do not have a list of production tag numbers, but they are challenging to swap due to their linkage-based shifer and lack of a slip-yoke using a flanged mating surface. I have never held one of these in my hands, but I suspect they could be used in many swaps with a remote linkage and a different driveshaft. Tag Numbers NWC V8 034, 065 3.8 V6 220, 236 V8 260lb/ft 126, 165, 169, 141 V8 300lb/ft 199, 204, 208, 246, 218, 219 Z-spec 335 249, 251 SVO 200, 202 Cobra 239, 242, 253 GM F-BODY GM used the T-5 in F-body cars behind all engines. In general, the I4/V6 got the following ratios: 1st - 3.50 2nd - 2.14 3rd - 1.36 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.78 Although some 4-cyl cars got the 3.76 gearset as used in the S10 & a few V6 cars actually got the 4.03 gearset. The V8 F-bodies typically got the following Gearset: 1st - 2.95 2nd - 1.94 3rd - 1.34 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.73 It is worth noting again that the 1993-95 F-body V6 cars got a Ford case with a GM input shaft. There were no V8 T-5 during these years. Tag Numbers V8 2.95 NWC 028, 062, 070, 072, 157, 185 V8 2.95 WC 159, 160, 175, 176, 195, 196 3.50 NWC 015, 027, 061, 156 3.76 NWC 054, 083, 158 4.03 NWC 181 4.03 WC 177 NWC Other (unknown app/gears) 071, 084, 150, 166, 178, 182, 183 WC Other (unk app/gears) 197, 212, 213, 214 WC Ford Pattern 210, 245, 247 ADAPTING THE T-5 SHIFTER PLACEMENT The Mustang and F-body T-5 both have rear mounted shifters at the end of the tailshaft. These often make difficult swaps and shifter placement, particularly in early Fords, is untenable. [URL=[URL='http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5069570%5d%5bimg%5dhttp://img1.putfile.com/thumb/3/8400190485.jpg/URL']http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5069570][img]http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/3/8400190485.jpg/URL[/URL]] L-R Early Ford Toploader, S10 T-5 w/Adapter, Mustang T-5 The S10 T-5 is often selected due to the shifter placement (approx 7 inches further rearward than early Ford), but typically lacks desirable gear ratios or the increased strength of a WC unit. Because of the T-5 excellent interchangeability, the tail housing and top cover from an S10 can be swapped onto other T-5. There are a few issues when doing this. The first is a small plastic oiling funnel found on the countershaft and retained by the tail housing. These are different from WC to NWC, but it is primarily due to changes in the tail housing casting, not an internal oiling issue. Consequently, this plastic funnel should stay with the tail housing. So, use the S10 plastic funnel when swapping an S10 tail housing onto a WC T-5. If it will not fit, and the original WC funnel will fit, use the WC funnel. This is not a super critical item, but pay close attention to it to get the right fit. [URL='http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5069569'][IMG]https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/file:///C:/Users/MIKEOB~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/URL] T-5 Countershaft Oiling Funnels The second issue is that of speedometer gear. Typically, when installing an S10 tail housing and top cover onto a WC T5 from a Mustang or F-body, the speedo gear will no longer align with the driven gear mounting hole in the housing. The output shaft has a built up area where the speedo drive gear mounts with a clip. Moving the gear requires building up the output shaft with shim stock. An excellent example of how to do this is found on the inliners websit at: http://www.inliners.org/Jack/T5tech.html Finally, if putting an S10 tail housing onto a Ford T-5, you will probably have to change the tailshaft bushing for the Ford one. This is due to different diameters of the output shaft. Adapting a GM (pre-1993) T-5 to any other GM product is pretty straightforward. Just find a bellhousing that will accept any standard Chevy-style transmission and bolt it all up. You will have clutch linkage to sort out, but putting the trans behind the engine is easy. Due to the slightly longer input shaft of an S10 T-5 as compared to a standard Chevy input shaft, when using an S10 T-5, pay attention to the pilot bushing area on the input shaft. It may need to be trimmed and shortened a little bit. Also, pay attention to the splines and use a clutch disk that does not push the splines way back on the input shaft. You may need to either change your clutch disk or lengthen your input splines carefully with a die grinder. Adapting a Mustang T-5 to a post-64 Ford bellhousing is pretty straightforward too. A thin, flat-plate adapter used by the early Mustang crowd is all you need. However, the easiest solution is to use the bellhousing from a late-model 5.0 Mustang; no adapters required. 65-Up Ford Adapter Adapting a Mustang T-5 to a 1949-64 Ford bellhousing is also relatively easy. The bottom two bolts line up well, one top bolt will need to be re-drilled, and the other top bolt will likely need an ear welded onto the bellhousing to finish it all off. The input shaft may need some minor trimming in the pilot bearing area. When adapting a GM T-5 to a Flathead Ford, there are several options. Offenhauser makes two adapters; one for the early, internal clutch linkage and one for a more modern clutch fork. Speedway sells their own version of these adapters for a lower price. Cornhusker also sells a complete kit with the adapter and other items (like pilot bushing, input shaft sleeve, etc). Speedway Clutch Fork GM Adapter Another option is to use a machined flat plate and the "hogshead" or mini-bellhousing from a 1946 and up Ford truck 4-speed. Dwight Bond (eBay ID 007Dwight) in Gibbon, NE sells these for very reasonable and you would be hard pressed to buy the material and pay for the machining for what he asks. He also has the special pilot bushing and input shave sleeve. There are also plans for the flat plate available from George Greenbaugh (eBay ID community-chest) for the hard-core do-it-yourselfers. Both gentlemen seem to have stopped doing these on a regular basis, but when contacted, may do so with enough interest and orders. Check and see. Dwight Bond Flat Plate Adapter on Hogshead To use the Ford pattern T-5 behind a flathead is a bit more work, but a company in New Zealand, Macs Speed Equipment, builds this adapter. Their webpage is: http://www.macsspeed.com/adapters_2.html I believe Vern Tardel also makes an adapter to use the Ford T-5 behind a flathead. INPUT SHAFTS As mentioned, input shafts vary by application and there are three general sizes, Ford, Chevy V8, and small Chevy. When adapting the T-5 to a flathead, or many other early engines, the input bearing retainer where the throwout bearing rides may be too small if using the original throwout bearing. A simple sleeve-type adapter can be used and are easily made by any competent machine shop, or readily available either in kits from Speedway or Cornhusker, or separately from Dwight Bond and others. CLUTCH DISKS As a rule of thumb, any clutch disk that has the correct input shaft size/spline count and correct diameter for the pressure plate will work. The Astrovan clutch disk seems to be popular when doing the flathead conversion, but check the clearance on the flywheel retaining bolts. Some clutch disks will not clear the bolt heads and cause problems later on. The very best option is to have the correct center hub installed on the flathead disk by a good clutch rebuilder. Clutch rebuilders will build anything you need or want for the most part. Unfortunately, unless you live in a major metropolitan area or near a port where big trucks see a lot of duty, most small time rebuilders have gone the way of the dodo bird. SHIFTERS One of the T-5 weak points is the stock shifter. There are no positive stops on the shifter itself, so it is easy to "over shift" the transmission. This can cause bending and cracking of the shift forks and is most notable when really banging the gears hard. This flexing of the shift forks will result in damage to the synchros. One of the best things you can do, especially if you like to shift hard or fast, is to use an aftermarket shifter with positive stops that are correctly adjusted in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. Shifter handles can be modified simply by cutting off the original shifter and welding on the handle of your choice to the stub. Some shifters are two-piece with a rubber isolator that can be torn off and a new handle welded on. If you use a Mustang transmission, the shifter handles merely bolt on to the stub. Mustang shifters can be modified for use on GM T-5. The rear two bolt holes line up, but may need to be reamed slightly. You can trim the excess rectangular plate off the Mustang shifter to fit the square GM shifter box and redrill some holes. Another option is a remote shifter. These started appearing for the early Mustang crowd a few years ago. They are pretty simple to duplicate by any good hot-rodder and may be preferable to swapping an S-10 tailhousing on as these are getting harder to find and come with some additional work (speedo, oil funnel, etc). The one big downside to the remote shifter is it requires some clearance above the transmission and may not work (unless left exposed) in tight applications. THROWOUT BEARINGS Which throwout bearing to use will depend on specifics of your swap. If youre running a flathead in an original Ford frame, it may be best to use one of the adapters that allows you to retain the stock clutch linkage and throwout bearing. This will provide the neatest solution. Hydraulic slave cylinders are easily adapted in both push and pull configurations and may be the best way if building from scratch or using a less common setup/swap. In this case, use a throwout bearing that will readily adapt to your linkage. In some cases, you may have to sleeve the input bearing retainer, while in others, you may use a T-5 OEM throwout bearing. Hydraulic throwout bearings are also available, but reviews and results are decidedly mixed and they tend to be quite pricey. REBUILDING The T-5 is as straight-forward as most other modern manual transmissions and require a minimum of specialized tools. Two excellent resources are available online, the Borg-Warner Technical Service Manual here: ]http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/media/pdfs_autogen/T-5_Service_Manual.pdf and a good how-to rebuild manual here: [http://pomoforacing.com/tech/T5Rebuild2002.pdf Endplay is the key to any manual tranny and the T-5 is no exception. Shim packs are still available from Ford and small parts kits are available from several sources online. OIL Like engine oil, which oil to use in a T-5 is the subject of much debate. From the original OEM manuals, you can see the following information: All NWC T-5 use 70WT Gear Oil or Redline MTL. ALL WC T-5 use ATF. ALL subsequent manuals tell us to use ATF in ALL T-5. So, what's the story? The OEMs originally used a 70WT gear oil in the early NWC transmissions. As the automakers were focusing on NVH and MPG, the switch to ATF was made and this coincided with the WC upgrade. It is generally safe to use in the early T-5 as well. However, do NOT use gear oil in a WC T-5 though - it will ruin the blocker rings/synchros. Use a quality synthetic oil (regardless of which type you need to use) & change it frequently (every 15-20K). Fill to the fill plug; about 5-1/2 pints or 2-1/2 quarts. OPEN DRIVE For a flathead conversion, you will probably need to convert to an open drive setup. Hot Rod Works and Speedway, as well as several others, sell a conversion kit for your banjo rear. Alternatively, you can swap to a modern rear like an 8" or 9" rear. You will need to replace the torque tube with some sort of locating device if modifying your banjo. The stock radius rods simply are not up to the task. CLOSED DRIVE While I have not done it yet, I am in the planning stage of converting a Jeep T-5 transmission to accept the torque-tube and stock early Ford U-joint. This should require crossmember modification, spline adapter, flat-plate adapter to accept the bell mount, and shortening the torque-tube/driveshaft. I will post this on the HAMB when I complete it. Who knows, maybe I will produce a kit if I am successful! If you are interested in purusing this yourself, the Jeep 4x4 T-5 is significantly shorter than the S-10 4x4 T-5. Crazydaddyo here on the HAMB has produced a conversion kit to swap an S-10 4x4 T-5 into a Model-A and retain the closed driveline. It's an elegant solution. ] Jeep T-5 RESOURCES The following is a list of various websites. Most are pretty good, nearly all have errors (like I know this article does too). Most errors, are errors of omission that can lead to misunderstanding or confusion, however, there are some errors of fact on many of these pages. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/t5_fivespeed.htm http://www.flatheadv8.org/t5-swap.htm http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169265 http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html SOURCES Jim OClair, T-5 Transmission Swaps, Hemmings Muscle Machines, July 04 Hokey Assed Message Board, http://www.jalopyjournal.com Inliners International Board, http://www.inliners.org POMOFO Racing, http://pomoforacing.com/ Transmission Technologies Corporation, URL="http://www.ttcautomotive.com/"]http://www.ttcautomotive.com/[/URL]
...Saginaw 4-speed with external linkage, old school style. All '85 and '86 Astro/Safari M-vans with a floor shifted manual trans will have the Saginaw 4-speed, not a T5 5-speed. (I am 99% sure they are not the T4 4-speed, which was also used on the S-series trucks). Only the 4.3L version got the T5 5-speed. There is a 4-cyl/4-speed shorty '85 Chevy Astro van at Jack's Auto Ranch waaaaay in the back corner. I can't recall if I grabbed the clutch and brake pedals from it in 2009, but the Saginaw 4-speed is likely still there.
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