Of the things which illustrate the technological ethos of what we call the traditional era, none is clearer than all the stuff you could at one time control manually, often by levers etc. on the steering wheel hub. There are times I've missed being able to adjust ignition timing, idle speed, and mixture on the fly. The challenge about which I'd been scratching my head, on and off, for a while was how to pull that off when a.) you're anticipating a U-joint or two in the steering column, b.) the steering gear has an input of too small a diameter to accommodate several concentric tubes, and c.) the build ethos precludes doing any of it my means of electronics. There are of course simpler ways to do it: the Model A had its ignition timing and throttle controls above the steering column, for instance, by levers behind the steering wheel, with only the headlights and horn controlled down the middle of the column. And there are certainly all kinds of other possibilities which suit the same kind of thinking. But I'm always up for reinventing the wheel, if only as an exercise. And to do it properly, I set myself the task of accommodating as many functions as possible: ignition timing, idle speed, choke/mixture, headlight switch, and horn push. Moreover, the horn push was to be a mechanical thing, controlling an air valve directly without electric mediation. The headlight switch was to follow the "Italian pattern," which I've always though suited my absent-mindedness, i.e. an on-off-on switch with parking lights only on an always-live circuit to one side, and all lighting on an ignition-switched circuit to the other. The other controls would be by Bowden cables. Finally, it needed to take a standard Moto-Lita 9 on 4"Ø bolt pattern, without looking too weird. When it started to point to gears, an important principle was the the steering itself should not be subject to gearing as part of this exercise. In other words, adding all these controls should not increase cumulative lost motion in the steering. Some of you might have spotted the motorcycle speedometer drive for the indicator self-cancelling mechanism I'd explored in a previous thread: in this case a British-style RH rear-wheel unit. In the end the exercise became a bit of a demonstration of my complex-mechanism 3D modelling, 3D rendering, and graphic editing prowess: a sampler or a masterpiece in the old sense; at the very least a portfolio item. If — as I still live in hope — I get to do this in physical real life, it would however be in a far more straightforward way.
Way too complex for my little brain too. I really wouldn't mind seeing some levers ala' Model A or T up above the column. They would be easy to use, and build. And very traditional, even though not in the world of hot rods.
So you want to be able to control things manually that modern computer cars do automatically? Or could be done with a laptop going down the road? Sounds complicated to me.
@Ned Ludd, I'm intrigued, please continue. Even if not easy or practical for most, it makes one use their brain. Learning is good. Much of "Traditional" is monkey see monkey do. Over and over. Doesn't stimulate the brain much.....
So if I got this right you would have a 3 or 4 “ on the tree” transmission behind the steering wheel ? I like the idea of being able to control stuff “ on the fly “ and mechanically . could not everything be cable controlled ? easiest would be mechanical levers hitting micro switches actuating linear motors . But that takes the fun out of what your thinking . Leave it to @Ned Ludd to make my brain smoke a bit first thing in the morning
pretty wild! Did you analyze the friction involved with the tubes, and make sure things won't actuate all by themselves?
My experience teaches me it is easier to use function before form; rather than form over function as you like. If everything is in one place there need be closer thought to what action will deliver what result. If the controls are situated to a reasonable place, then it is easier finding them while focusing on the road. This theory was developed over the years I drove tractor trailers. When I started things were arrayed on the dash by means of how the controls needed to be linked into their function. Time passed and electronics were used for linking the functions to the control panel. Buttons in a row, now means one needs to check where the finger lands. In reality if one suddenly needs to use the engine brake, it is easy to miss and turn on the cabin light. Not helpful especially at night. The old way the arm and the hand knew just what function was being applied.
Impressive, but I'd hate to think what you will do if you ever have any malfunction away from home. There is an old saying that goes something like this........"just because you can doesn't mean you should". I wish you well if you decide to go for it, but as someone who has "designed" some simple projects that I could machine parts to fit.......I know how labor intensive and time consuming they can become. Usually requiring some modification during the process to make it all work. Like I said, impressive design and looks good.
I tried to keep the friction between the column, including anything attached rigidly to it, and the elements which actually interface with it, i.e. the innermost sleeves and the five planetary axles, to a minimum by means of ball bearings. I didn't worry too much about friction between the respective sleeves, as a bit of friction there is all to the good. Four of the sleeves are also located by ball detents to the fifth, which is the column assembly case, anchored to the dash and firewall. I read a page about the restoration of a 4½-litre Bentley steering column, which also worked by concentric sleeves, though somewhat simpler as the column itself was a continuous hollow tube from end to end, right through the steering box. I'd think that that would have had similar friction issues, but by all accounts it worked well enough.
As I said in Post #1, "There are of course simpler ways to do it: ... And there are certainly all kinds of other possibilities which suit the same kind of thinking ... But I'm always up for reinventing the wheel, if only as an exercise ... If ... I get to do this in physical real life, it would however be in a far more straightforward way." But this was fun. That is what I'd do on a real build: ignition and throttle on top of the column; mixture/choke via a conventional pull on the dash; I've got an antique rotary selector switch off a stove, which would look the part as a light switch on the dash; and horn activated by pulling back on the under-dash indicator lever: simple enough.
Hey Ned I should have, could have, would have, made it clear that looking at anything from a different slant is always worth while. During the 'van era' many experiments were committed by me regarding controls: steering shifting ign/start and comforts,,, just to be different. ( and there was a period where everything would break in my hands ) Thanks for sharing your thoughts in a very clear and detailed way. I drive an original Model T and find the gas valve to be very handy. I salute you.
Steering ability dependent on all the gears, shafts and connected controls ability to rotate, or a breakaway clutch in case of trouble?
You make a good point. When you turn the steering wheel, the five planetary axles turn along with it, their gears riding on the ten larger gears, which remain stationary. If foreign matter gets between the gears, it would either get squashed or lock the steering wheel. As modelled, the mechanism is well enough enclosed below the steering wheel boss, but there is a chance that something might make it through the slots for the timing/throttle/mixture levers, into the part of the mechanism above the boss. I'd have to look in detail again: I'm sure it's solvable. If it comes to breakaway clutches, I think a single one on the column casing planetary shaft should do it. That might, of course, cause all kinds of things to self-activate with the steering, but there would be steering. Best, I think, to keep possible jams out in the first place.
I've designed planetary gear motors, there is a lot to consider especially with gear material itself. Have you looked at an Edsel steering column? That was for the transmission only and I believe a 1 year thing. http://www.internationaledsel.com/assets/teletouch-transmission-control-article-for-website.pdf
Thanks. Your link threw up warnings for some reason, but the Wikipedia page is interesting. The relevant aspect is of course the planetary mechanism which kept the keypad in the middle of the steering wheel the right way up:
Always good to dream and pursue your interests. A former friend did just that and started his own company. It’s been 4 years, but he is almost done. https://www.transitify.co/pages/our-story
Might another option be to run everything down the center of a hollow steering shaft connected to a second shaft, something like one of those steering drop boxes but open at the end?
You'll doubtless have no trouble believing that that is exactly where this train of thought began! First, chain drive to a rack-and-pinion mounted at about 15° to laterally across the bottom of the transmission; then (after struggling with packaging issues) a short chain to a vertical rack-and-pinion mounted outboard of the column on the firewall instead. I might have mentioned it on another thread.
Here's a thought that probably wouldn't work: everything mounted outside the column, with the knobs or levers sticking though the steering wheel spokes, and all on a cam plate such that when the steering wheel turns the controls move inward to let the spokes by. Don't try this at home!
The best I did when I built my 34 3 window Hi Boy back in the 70s I installed a Cadillac tilt and telescopic column . It was very comfortable.
The Jalopy Journal
