Technical Traditional-looking self-cancelling indicator idea

Here's something I've been mulling over.

Modern control stalks certainly don't suit the look of many traditional interiors. Many early indicators had dash-mounted or under-dash switches, but they were as a rule non-self-cancelling. A simple chrome stalk with a small period knob on the end of it emerging from under the dash can look the part, but how to get it to self-cancel?

I'd looked at linkages but they ended up being far too fiddly. But how about gearing the cancel-signalling function from the column? But what to use for gears? Industrial right-angle drives are either too heavy (and expensive) or the shaft bores are too small. Distributor drive gears looked promising, but a motorcycle front-hub speedometer cable drive fits the bill perfectly. Many have a ratio between 2:1 and 3:1, which would smooth out the self-cancelling, giving more than a turn before the indicators want to self-cancel, and a longer ramp in the opposite direction before triggering the mechanism.

Here's what I have in mind:

The exact action would depend on the choice of switch. An early VW switch would give down for left, up for right, and towards the column for beam dipping.

There is an animation of the self-cancelling action here. Unfortunately the site doesn't want me to hotlink it.

Any use?

 

Here is a suitable speedometer drive:

The axle hole will just fit a ¾" column.

 

Did you know some English cars from the fifties had a clockwork switch on the instrument panel? Turn it and the trafficators engage, when the time runs out the switch turns itself off.

It would also be possible to use an electronic pickup on the steering arm and make a self cancelling switch with no connection to the steering wheel.

 

Early Series MM Morris Minors had the clockwork thing, if I remember correctly. The electronic version would be cheating, though!

 

Ned
If my post is contrary to the intent of this thread; I will respectfully delete it.
I know this isn't totally kosher for the "card carrying traditionalists, but I too never liked the looks of column mounted t/s switches in hot rods. I built this car with a minimalist POV but also thought the whole arm hanging outside, over the door deal looked a bit lame.
I made an aluminum holder to mount two line/loc switches on my Hurst shifter handle.
The rest is controlled by a hidden "little black box" that is an adjustable controller.

 

As kid in the 50's I remember some aftermarket turn signal switches that had a rubber wheel on the column side of the switch that would ride on the shaft in the steering column. You would have to cut a slot in the column jacket for the wheel to go through to reach the shaft. It would self cancel as the steering wheel was turned, just like the factory ones.

 

Why try to re-event the wheel?

Autolite 9000 made a turn signal with a self canceling wheel,it rides on the edge of the steering wheel. HRP

 

There use to be an aftermarket product sold to the British Car crowd that used a timing out relay to cancel a traditional turn signal. As I recall, the timing length was adjustable. Not sure if they are still being sold.

 

There are aftermarket kits that have self cancelling turn signals. The have an adjustible timer that lets you choose how long before they go off. You can activate the turn signals however you like. I used this setup on an off topic vehicle a few years ago and used two push buttons on the dash for left and right turn signals.

 

Harley motorcycles use a small black box that controls the turn signals
and will self cancel after a preset amount of time. I do not think it is adjustable but might be useful to adapt for the purpose you mention.

 

I really like the clock work idea!

 

If the Harley unit is the same as those on most bikes, there is a reed switch that counts speedometer cable revolutions, and cancels after so many revolutions. That way, the signal won't cancel if you're waiting for a light to change.

Cosmo

 

The rubber wheel that turns on the column gets hard and slips after a while. Maybe there's some way of refurbishing the rubber wheel? Or adding a stickier something to the column?

I drove an old Chevy with broken cancel mech on one side. Took off the wheel, broke the other canceller trying to see how it worked - old brittle plastic. That's when I just found a louder solenoid to remind me, and remembered to cancel them myself.

 

This box uses the concept he's talking about.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Turn-Signal-Module-4-Bulb,2366.html

I use these all the time. I hide stainless flush mount momentary buttons that I get from McMaster Carr. You get self cancelling turn signals, and hazard flashers, with no ugly switch.

 

I like to use early vw bug steering columns and turn signal switches. Nice and clean switches that cancel. I use vw steering wheels but a adapter is made so you can run a three bolt steering wheel.

 

The part that actually rotates to spin the cable is that outer flat washer with the tang on it; the axle doesn't turn. The tang engages a hole or slot on the wheel, and the wheel turns the washer which in turn spins the cable. It would be possible to use this, but the install wouldn't be as clean as you envision. You can get ratios from 1:1 on up to about 3:1, depending on the OEM manufacturer.

It's not just Harley that uses these, they've been around in various designs since '78 on Japanese bikes. Some use a reed switch (generally with a mechanical speedo), some get a signal from electronic speedos. Most actually do a speed/distance 'calculation', varying 'on' time by how fast and far you've gone. The main problem (if you can get past the issue of a suitable input signal) is they're load-sensitive; use anything other than the 'factory' load and they can work poorly or not at all, so changing lamp types or number of lamps is usually out. They're also very touchy about poor connections.

 

And I forgot to mention that motorcycle speedo drives don't offer gear reduction, but multiplication, so a 1:1 ratio would be the 'slowest' ratio available. One turn of the input will result in one or more turns of the output.

 

And while we're discussing using motorcycle turn signal bits, I'll throw out one more tip. Motorcycle turn lamps are both slightly brighter and more heavy-duty than 'standard' automotive lamps. While an incandescent automotive turn/brake type is usually rated at 23 watts, most motorcycles (Harleys, at least older ones in particular) use 27 watt lamps with reinforced filaments to resist vibration. Only available from motorcycle dealers (at least I've never found them anywhere else), but will fit in place of 'standard' lamps. Cost is used to be about double of an automotive lamp... it's been a while since I bought any.

 

Thanks for the input, Steve. I tried to get an idea from photos of a disassembled unit. The best photo I could find seemed to show something between a fast worm drive and a helical drive like a distributor gear, but I couldn't really tell. And the axle hole thing did seem a bit odd, though I took the tang to be some kind of locator on the fork or brake. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I've used the top outer half of an early Austin Mini 850 steering and spliced it into my Lotus Cortina Race Car steering column [it slipped tightly over the Cortina column and was spot welded]

It was a neat little unit with a plastic casing that looked similar to bakelite, and had L&R , high and low beam, and the horn button on the same stalk.
In my situation the self cancelling cam on the column was press on and also the same size

Edit [ I found this photo below]

 

Steve, I think the bulb number you were talking about is probably 198. The truck shops sell them and they are the same as 1157 but have the heavy duty filaments to resist shaking apart while bouncing down a rough gravel road going back for another load. They are brighter and last about forever. Of course now most of the trucks have gone to the rubber mounted sealed lights that also last about forever and can be changed out at the scales with no tools. I usually buy them by the box of 10 and I don't think they are significantly more expensive than 1157's when purchased that way.

 

Also, now that I think about it, It seems like I decided that on my last Harley (2003 Road King, a retired cop bike) the self canceling turn signals must have had a lean sensor. As I recall, the signal would stay on for blocks or minutes or whatever unless I leaned the bike to make a turn. When I stood it back upright then they would cancel. Seems like I wondered about that for a week or two and it was sort of an epiphany when I finally figured out how it was deciding to turn off the damned blinker. Ha,ha.

 

I used one of these in an under dash panel with my other switches although it doesn't have self cancel , it works well and I have LED dash indicators.
I cut the connector off and spliced the wires into the harness as I didn't use a GM column
http://kwikwire.com/toggle-turn-signal-switch-with-wire-harness/

here is another one that does have self-cancelling available in a toggle switch

http://www.turnswitch.com/Turnsignal.htm

 

These are traditional and work really well.

 

They're not internationally universal, though. I believe in the Commonwealth tradition - mostly right-hand drive - it's right hand extended for right turn, right hand raised for stop, and right hand downwards and "stirring the pot" counterclockwise for left turn. So few people nowadays know what the hand signals mean at all, never mind what they mean in the specific country they're in.

 

Like this idea! Thanx, Gary

 

Not so much these days... They don't teach these signals anymore (at least locally they don't), so under-30s just wonder why you're waving your arm around.

 

Last time I tried to use hand signals, several people signaled back.......with an extended middle finger - go figure????

 

True , but how many "modern" people have the interface to understand what you are doing???LOL

 

The turn signal that I will be using in my 30' Chrysler coupe project is out of a 58' Chrysler Imperial, dash mount switch. You can see it in the lower left corner under the push button shift in the picture. I will also be using a push button shift pod from a Chrysler and incorporate it in a 1946 Chrysler dash that I will be using.