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View Poll Results: what would drill guide could you see as being handy?
Original 5x5 changed to 5x4.75 &5x4.5 50 25.00%
Original 5x4.75 changed to 5x4.5 14 7.00%
Original 5x4.5 changed to 5x4.75 32 16.00%
Original 5x4.75 changed to 5x5.5 14 7.00%
Original 5x4.5 changed to 5x5.5 21 10.50%
Original 5x5.5 changed to 5x4.75 & 5x4.5 69 34.50%
Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-08-2012, 12:39 PM   #1
rottenleonard
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Default Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

First off I hope this doesn't come across as unwanted spam as that is not my intention. I am producing a new product to allow you to change from one wheel bolt pattern to another without removing the axles from the vehicle, While it will not work on all vehicles, for those that it will it will save money on axle replacement/re machining, seals, lube and labor. It is not difficult and should be pretty easy for most with just a little bit of mechanical know how.

I am needing some help as we are doing this on a shoe string budget and have never tried to market anything like this, But hope that it will help me someday to be able quit my day job. We have produced a few and used them, with a very successfully results. Now we are going to make a full production run and need to figure what will be the most popular models so we down waste time and money on parts that won't sell often.

Here is what they look like with the exception that they will ship with a black oxide coating that looks pretty sharp.



You can view some abridged instructions to see how it works here... http://www.rottenleonard.com/Menu.html

What we need it an idea of what will be popular, I will add a poll with what we think may be popular but if what you need is not cover let us know and we will try to cover it. Also any input/criticism would be appreciated.

Also I signed up for an alliance membership and have PM'd Ryan about offering a 10% discount on all products to all alliance members at www.rottenleonard.com

Thanks Robert
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:43 PM   #2
redlinetoys
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Interesting Robert.

Subscribed.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:43 PM   #3
Dan Timberlake
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

I'd say referencing the hub pilot to center the fixture would be worth doing most of the time. Even for wheels that are not hub centric
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #4
rottenleonard
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

While the ones that we have tested came out pretty accurate, we have considered also offering hub-centrics for added assurance.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #5
48 Chubby
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

I would love to see a 6 on 5.5 to either a small or large Chevy 5 bolt pattern.
Lots of '55 to '71 Chevy pick ups out there, and decent 6 lug stuff is getting hard to find.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:41 PM   #6
deuceman32
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

[QUOTE]
I would love to see a 6 on 5.5 to either a small or large Chevy 5 bolt pattern.
Lots of '55 to '71 Chevy pick ups out there, and decent 6 lug stuff is getting hard to find.
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x2 what he said. The other guide on my wish list would be a hub-centric guide to redrill a bare 45 fin Buick drum to 5 on 5.5"
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:49 PM   #7
SAM123
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by 48 Chubby View Post
I would love to see a 6 on 5.5 to either a small or large Chevy 5 bolt pattern.
Lots of '55 to '71 Chevy pick ups out there, and decent 6 lug stuff is getting hard to find.
... or the otherway around. I gots some really nice wires off a 33 chev (6 hole) that are begging to go on a 5-lug set up.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Look's like a good product.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:18 PM   #9
Mr48chev
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

If that works well you just may have invented one of the best new tools to come along in along time. I hope you already have the patents on it done or in the works.

I agree with the having it hub centric concept. You might even think about offering rings to fit various popular hubs as an add on for those that want it.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:19 PM   #10
yardgoat
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

I have a question on your pics that shows the process of moving smaller to larger bolt pattern. The drum in pic has weights on it and i assume it is to ballance the drum,now that the studs are offset does this change the ballance on the new lug,s?I ask this because the drum now has 5 more holes in it and are now offset even when new studs are replaced,on one hand it stays the same but on the other it has to change.Can you help me understand why it would not affect the balance of the drum.Thanks.............YG
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:25 PM   #11
B.A.KING
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

i would have to agree on the 6 lug to 4.3/4.. but i also know you cant cover every thing. this is a product i would buy. good luck in the future with the peice. and i hope you get to quit your day job:>))
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:37 PM   #12
rottenleonard
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by yardgoat View Post
I have a question on your pics that shows the process of moving smaller to larger bolt pattern. The drum in pic has weights on it and i assume it is to balance the drum,now that the studs are offset does this change the balance on the new lug,s?I ask this because the drum now has 5 more holes in it and are now offset even when new studs are replaced,on one hand it stays the same but on the other it has to change.Can you help me understand why it would not affect the balance of the drum.Thanks.............YG
Good Question....
The relationship between the drum and axle/hub does not change, also the material is removed evenly from all sides of the axis, also the material that is removed is close to the axis which makes it have less effect than it would if it were farther away from the axis. The balance should not be effected enough to cause a notable difference. Thanks
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #13
rottenleonard
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

[QUOTE=deuceman32;7321744]
Quote:
I would love to see a 6 on 5.5 to either a small or large Chevy 5 bolt pattern.
Lots of '55 to '71 Chevy pick ups out there, and decent 6 lug stuff is getting hard to find.
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x2 what he said. The other guide on my wish list would be a hub-centric guide to redrill a bare 45 fin Buick drum to 5 on 5.5"
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM123 View Post
... or the otherway around. I gots some really nice wires off a 33 chev (6 hole) that are begging to go on a 5-lug set up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.A.KING View Post
i would have to agree on the 6 lug to 4.3/4.. but i also know you cant cover every thing. this is a product i would buy. good luck in the future with the peice. and i hope you get to quit your day job:>))
Changing the number of lugs has it's challenges(but we think we can cover some of them) as you can no longer index the guide to predrill then drill each hole. we are looking at a two piece kit to cover some of these.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks for the input, it is good to know if things like this are worth pursuing.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:48 PM   #14
KoolKat-57
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Great idea!
I have a set of rotors that are 5''X 5 that I would like to have a 4 3/4'' X 5 bolt pattern on, so your device is top shelf in my book.
Good luck and much success with your project!
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:20 PM   #15
1935Ron
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by yardgoat View Post
I have a question on your pics that shows the process of moving smaller to larger bolt pattern. The drum in pic has weights on it and i assume it is to ballance the drum,now that the studs are offset does this change the ballance on the new lug,s?I ask this because the drum now has 5 more holes in it and are now offset even when new studs are replaced,on one hand it stays the same but on the other it has to change.Can you help me understand why it would not affect the balance of the drum.Thanks.............YG
First let me say nice idea...

I have to also agree 100 % about the balance issue also. A valid point to consider. I have re-drilled both drums, and rotors,some worked out perfect....first time..... some shook the sh*t out of you and I had to high speed balance them on the car to get them right
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #16
rottenleonard
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1935Ron View Post
First let me say nice idea...

I have to also agree 100 % about the balance issue also. A valid point to consider. I have re-drilled both drums, and rotors,some worked out perfect....first time..... some shook the sh*t out of you and I had to high speed balance them on the car to get them right
The biggest thing is to spend some time prior to mounting the fixture making sure all surfaces are clean, the threads have been cleaned and chased, and making sure the lug nuts are in good shape without any galled surfaces and the bits are still sharp with a factory tip(we don't recommend resharpened bits as they may walk causing the pattern to be inaccurate). If everything is done properly you shouldn't have issues.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:40 AM   #17
JEM
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

I voted for the one I have most immediate need of (unfortunately it's only pulling 6% or so from everyone else...) but I could see needing a couple different patterns if the price makes sense.

There's also a specific application for 5x4.25->5x4.5 and possibly 5x4.25->5x4.75 that comes to mind (T-Bird/Mark VIII rear hubs for FFR Cobras and other kits that use the MN12 IRS carrier and hub.) There's guys who sell them redrilled, the '03 Ford Cobra hubs also work but are ridiculous $$$ (2.5x the price of a BMW M5 hub.) This is a crowd that'll probably want 3.06in centering rings for the 2.775in (IIRC) hub pilot, too...

And just to complicate your life further you might want to consider making your jig hub-centric to the largest common hub diameter for a particular pattern then selling optional spacer rings for smaller hub pilot sizes.

Last edited by JEM; 01-09-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #18
rottenleonard
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEM View Post
I voted for the one I have most immediate need of (unfortunately it's only pulling 6% or so from everyone else...) but I could see needing a couple different patterns if the price makes sense.

There's also a specific application for 5x4.25->5x4.5 and possibly 5x4.25->5x4.75 that comes to mind (T-Bird/Mark VIII rear hubs for FFR Cobras and other kits that use the MN12 IRS carrier and hub.) There's guys who sell them redrilled, the '03 Ford Cobra hubs also work but are ridiculous $$$ (2.5x the price of a BMW M5 hub.) This is a crowd that'll probably want 3.06in centering rings for the 2.775in (IIRC) hub pilot, too...

And just to complicate your life further you might want to consider making your jig hub-centric to the largest common hub diameter for a particular pattern then selling optional spacer rings for smaller hub pilot sizes.
Actually the hub/drum pictured is from a t-bird, that we are using the rear suspention on a hot rod project, it will take the 4.25 out to the chevy and ford patterns. We are planning on offering the oddball sizes made to order, it really isn't hard to change them in the cad and cnc programs so if what gets listed isn't what you need just give us a ring.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #19
rottenleonard
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Timberlake View Post
I'd say referencing the hub pilot to center the fixture would be worth doing most of the time. Even for wheels that are not hub centric
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr48chev View Post
If that works well you just may have invented one of the best new tools to come along in along time. I hope you already have the patents on it done or in the works.

I agree with the having it hub centric concept. You might even think about offering rings to fit various popular hubs as an add on for those that want it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEM View Post
I voted for the one I have most immediate need of (unfortunately it's only pulling 6% or so from everyone else...) but I could see needing a couple different patterns if the price makes sense.

There's also a specific application for 5x4.25->5x4.5 and possibly 5x4.25->5x4.75 that comes to mind (T-Bird/Mark VIII rear hubs for FFR Cobras and other kits that use the MN12 IRS carrier and hub.) There's guys who sell them redrilled, the '03 Ford Cobra hubs also work but are ridiculous $$$ (2.5x the price of a BMW M5 hub.) This is a crowd that'll probably want 3.06in centering rings for the 2.775in (IIRC) hub pilot, too...

And just to complicate your life further you might want to consider making your jig hub-centric to the largest common hub diameter for a particular pattern then selling optional spacer rings for smaller hub pilot sizes.
While we have had very good luck using them as is, due to response here(thank you) we are talking about offering a "professional" model, that would incorporate a hub centric design(probably replaceable centering rings for different diameters), and have basically two guide plates, one for pre drilling and one for finish drilling, This would save a bit of time as you wouldn't have to index.
Does anyone know of a good site that would have axle dimensions listed so we could get common hub diameters.
While it would be more money than the base model It would still be cheaper than a machine shop or axle replacement.

Thanks Robert
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:18 PM   #20
sunbeam
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Default Re: Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

I just use one of the cheap wheel pattern disk and a set of self centering center punchs.
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