Register now to get rid of these ads!

Drill guides to change wheel lug patterns

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rottenleonard, Jan 8, 2012.

?

what would drill guide could you see as being handy?

  1. Original 5x5 changed to 5x4.75 &5x4.5

    50 vote(s)
    24.6%
  2. Original 5x4.75 changed to 5x4.5

    14 vote(s)
    6.9%
  3. Original 5x4.5 changed to 5x4.75

    32 vote(s)
    15.8%
  4. Original 5x4.75 changed to 5x5.5

    14 vote(s)
    6.9%
  5. Original 5x4.5 changed to 5x5.5

    21 vote(s)
    10.3%
  6. Original 5x5.5 changed to 5x4.75 & 5x4.5

    72 vote(s)
    35.5%
  1. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    First off I hope this doesn't come across as unwanted spam as that is not my intention. I am producing a new product to allow you to change from one wheel bolt pattern to another without removing the axles from the vehicle, While it will not work on all vehicles, for those that it will it will save money on axle replacement/re machining, seals, lube and labor. It is not difficult and should be pretty easy for most with just a little bit of mechanical know how.

    I am needing some help as we are doing this on a shoe string budget and have never tried to market anything like this, But hope that it will help me someday to be able quit my day job:p. We have produced a few and used them, with a very successfully results. Now we are going to make a full production run and need to figure what will be the most popular models so we down waste time and money on parts that won't sell often.

    Here is what they look like with the exception that they will ship with a black oxide coating that looks pretty sharp.

    [​IMG]

    You can view some abridged instructions to see how it works here... http://www.rottenleonard.com/Menu.html

    What we need it an idea of what will be popular, I will add a poll with what we think may be popular but if what you need is not cover let us know and we will try to cover it. Also any input/criticism would be appreciated.

    Also I signed up for an alliance membership and have PM'd Ryan about offering a 10% discount on all products to all alliance members at www.rottenleonard.com

    Thanks Robert
     
  2. redlinetoys
    Joined: May 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,242

    redlinetoys
    Member
    from Midwest

    Interesting Robert.

    Subscribed.
     
  3. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 682

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    I'd say referencing the hub pilot to center the fixture would be worth doing most of the time. Even for wheels that are not hub centric
     
  4. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    While the ones that we have tested came out pretty accurate, we have considered also offering hub-centrics for added assurance.
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. 48 Chubby
    Joined: Apr 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,016

    48 Chubby
    Member Emeritus

    I would love to see a 6 on 5.5 to either a small or large Chevy 5 bolt pattern.
    Lots of '55 to '71 Chevy pick ups out there, and decent 6 lug stuff is getting hard to find.
     
  6. deuceman32
    Joined: Oct 23, 2007
    Posts: 190

    deuceman32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

     
  7. ... or the otherway around. I gots some really nice wires off a 33 chev (6 hole) that are begging to go on a 5-lug set up.
     
  8. dirt t
    Joined: Mar 20, 2007
    Posts: 2,251

    dirt t
    Member
    from Kingman,AZ

    Look's like a good product.
     
  9. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 17,871

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If that works well you just may have invented one of the best new tools to come along in along time. I hope you already have the patents on it done or in the works.

    I agree with the having it hub centric concept. You might even think about offering rings to fit various popular hubs as an add on for those that want it.
     
  10. yardgoat
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 724

    yardgoat
    Member

    I have a question on your pics that shows the process of moving smaller to larger bolt pattern. The drum in pic has weights on it and i assume it is to ballance the drum,now that the studs are offset does this change the ballance on the new lug,s?I ask this because the drum now has 5 more holes in it and are now offset even when new studs are replaced,on one hand it stays the same but on the other it has to change.Can you help me understand why it would not affect the balance of the drum.Thanks.............YG
     
  11. B.A.KING
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,496

    B.A.KING
    Member

    i would have to agree on the 6 lug to 4.3/4.. but i also know you cant cover every thing. this is a product i would buy. good luck in the future with the peice. and i hope you get to quit your day job:>))
     
  12. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good Question....
    The relationship between the drum and axle/hub does not change, also the material is removed evenly from all sides of the axis, also the material that is removed is close to the axis which makes it have less effect than it would if it were farther away from the axis. The balance should not be effected enough to cause a notable difference. Thanks
     
  13. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

     
  14. KoolKat-57
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 1,308

    KoolKat-57
    Member
    from Dublin, OH

    Great idea!
    I have a set of rotors that are 5''X 5 that I would like to have a 4 3/4'' X 5 bolt pattern on, so your device is top shelf in my book.
    Good luck and much success with your project!
     
  15. First let me say nice idea...

    I have to also agree 100 % about the balance issue also. A valid point to consider. I have re-drilled both drums, and rotors,some worked out perfect....first time..... some shook the sh*t out of you and I had to high speed balance them on the car to get them right
     
  16. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The biggest thing is to spend some time prior to mounting the fixture making sure all surfaces are clean, the threads have been cleaned and chased, and making sure the lug nuts are in good shape without any galled surfaces and the bits are still sharp with a factory tip(we don't recommend resharpened bits as they may walk causing the pattern to be inaccurate). If everything is done properly you shouldn't have issues.
     
  17. JEM
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 1,035

    JEM
    Member

    I voted for the one I have most immediate need of (unfortunately it's only pulling 6% or so from everyone else...) but I could see needing a couple different patterns if the price makes sense.

    There's also a specific application for 5x4.25->5x4.5 and possibly 5x4.25->5x4.75 that comes to mind (T-Bird/Mark VIII rear hubs for FFR Cobras and other kits that use the MN12 IRS carrier and hub.) There's guys who sell them redrilled, the '03 Ford Cobra hubs also work but are ridiculous $$$ (2.5x the price of a BMW M5 hub.) This is a crowd that'll probably want 3.06in centering rings for the 2.775in (IIRC) hub pilot, too...

    And just to complicate your life further you might want to consider making your jig hub-centric to the largest common hub diameter for a particular pattern then selling optional spacer rings for smaller hub pilot sizes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
  18. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Actually the hub/drum pictured is from a t-bird, that we are using the rear suspention on a hot rod project, it will take the 4.25 out to the chevy and ford patterns. We are planning on offering the oddball sizes made to order, it really isn't hard to change them in the cad and cnc programs so if what gets listed isn't what you need just give us a ring.
     
  19. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    While we have had very good luck using them as is, due to response here(thank you) we are talking about offering a "professional" model, that would incorporate a hub centric design(probably replaceable centering rings for different diameters), and have basically two guide plates, one for pre drilling and one for finish drilling, This would save a bit of time as you wouldn't have to index.
    Does anyone know of a good site that would have axle dimensions listed so we could get common hub diameters.
    While it would be more money than the base model It would still be cheaper than a machine shop or axle replacement.

    Thanks Robert
     
  20. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 1,415

    sunbeam
    Member

    I just use one of the cheap wheel pattern disk and a set of self centering center punchs.
     
  21. curbspeed
    Joined: Feb 7, 2002
    Posts: 2,919

    curbspeed
    Member
    from Tucson ,Az

    I'd say anything that changes from common sizes to early Ford(5x5.5) would be a winner. Could you not make one of these with multiple sizes that had screw in drill guides? Just wondering.
     
  22. hotroddon
    Joined: Sep 22, 2007
    Posts: 11,944

    hotroddon
    Member

    Well, I was interested in the concept based on the quote "I am producing a new product to allow you to change from one wheel bolt pattern to another without removing the axles from the vehicle". But since most cars on here are Live axles vehicles, you still have to pull the axles out of the car to do this, and at that point I can just as easily put it in the mill like i have done for 30 years.
    Nice tool for the independent suspension or imports though.
     
  23. PaRatRod
    Joined: Jul 13, 2010
    Posts: 118

    PaRatRod
    Member

    I have two Chevys with ford rears under them. A 57Chev with an 8.8" and a 68 Camaro with a 9". I think Chevys with ford rears are pretty common so that combo should be popular.

    Thanks!
    Jim
     
  24. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,029

    swissmike
    Member

    I think I am missing something here, but how do you remove and replace the studs without removing the axles from a rear end? The drilling part is pretty self explanatory....
     
  25. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's really not that hard to change them(at least on drum brake setups), Just knock out the old ones, and use a nut and spacers to pull the new ones in using it's own threads.
     
  26. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well I guess you have me there, "live Axle" is not a term I'm familiar with (I'm thinking maybe the pressed on hub style like on a banjo rear?), The Guide will work well on most c-clip style axles, and some non c-clip style axles.

    And while you and I have the luxury of machine tools many hobbie builders may not, this is to make their lives easier.
     
  27. lakester47
    Joined: Feb 24, 2008
    Posts: 113

    lakester47
    Member

    Leonard,

    I am interested in 6 on 5.5, both ways. coverting from commom 5 lug patterns to 6 and doing the reverse, converting from 6 lug to most commonly 5 on 4.75. I think you have a good idea. will the guide(ring) be hardened like a drill guide?
     
  28. smittythejunkman
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 86

    smittythejunkman
    Member

    Great Idea sign me up im a buyer on several. needs hardened drill drill bushings for guides good tools should last forever. 5 0n 4.5 to 5 on 4 3/4 and vice versa will be the hottest sellers
     
  29. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,029

    swissmike
    Member

    I would be a little concerned knocking out the studs without damaging the bearings. Do you have to support the axle flange against the housing in any way?
     
  30. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    rottenleonard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    They really don't come out THAT hard, also concider what the bearing puts up with when you are driving the car, you are repeatedly slamming a 2-5k lb car against the same bearing, driving out the studs with a hammer isn't going to have an effect.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.