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Old 05-03-2004, 09:48 PM   #1
MattStrube
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Default HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

What have you guys been able to get or seen pulled out of a flathead for horsepower?. I'm going to drive it like a sum of a bitch and want to be able to roast em every once in a while. Matt

The smarter, funnier, and better looking Strube Brother!
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:03 PM   #2
Broman
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I saw one with a blower putting out like 350 HP. In a small car (Model A) it should be good for a 12-13 second 1/4 mile. I don't know a ton about flatties though so I don't know what they put out, but it isn't going to be earth shaking....

Cool but not real big numbers. Not that the numbers make a bit of difference at the drive-in....lol.
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:37 PM   #3
Jimv
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I was watching one of those shit shows on speedvision(shop with the checkered floor) & they took a 49-54 flattie, put in alumn rods & pistons, SS valves,a cradle that supported the crank, a forged crank,alumn finned heads, a pointless distributor,a blower, 4BBL on top of that & a bunch of other shit i can't remember, (but it was very expensive), put it on a dyno & got 278HP!!!
that sucks, ain't worth the hassle!!
JimV
PS but nothin looks better then a flattie with 3 dueces on it!!
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:44 PM   #4
RileyRacing
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Did you see that Hot Rod article a few years back about the "Apocalyptic Flathead"? It was something like 550 HP, but it was alot of high dollar shit too. Really cool engine, though! They swapped the intake and exhaust ports, added a Centifigual blower, Chevy con rods, billet crank... it was actually pretty cool...

Jay
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:50 PM   #5
thirtytwo
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to drive it like a sum of a bitch and want to be able to roast em every once in a while. Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

im guessing the your gonna have 3 strong disagreements with that statement!!!!!!!

39 box-

axle keys-

axles-
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:52 PM   #6
SamIyam
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

It's not about horsepower... it's about torque.

A warmed over flathead isn't going to perform like a warmed over small block Chevy.

But you're not building it in the search for speed... will it move your little 2000lb hot rod around? Yea, and it'll wax the snot out of most Hondas on the road... but is it going to run 12, 13... or even 14 second quarter mile times?

Probably not.

Besides, if you want to beat on something and record quarter mile times... I wouldnt' suggest building an av8 roadster...

The reasons for building an av8 roadster are because you like the Nostalgia of the car... appreciate the history and want to feel what it was like to drive a hot rod 55 years ago.

My advice would be to at least get your chassis up and running... at this point, you're into it for peanuts... I'd take Steve Hendrickson up on his offer to take you tin hunting back there... and have fun.

When you're done, if you don't like it... I'll trade you the Roach Rod for it... just make sure to put a rumble seat in it for your nephews.

Sam.
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

In my humble opinion, if you're going to build a motor that is going to kick everybody's ass you're going to sink a lot of money into any motor but, if you want to look and be cool a flattie is the way to go. Just about any overhead valve will beat you in the quarter mile but, you can suck the doors off of any thing on the street with a well done flattie.
Roy Creel has a Banger (32-24 Ford four cylinder) that does 216 MPH on the lakes but it is heavily modified.
I like the old ways. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go.
No guts, no air medals.
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Old 05-04-2004, 12:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Figure 125 to 175 hp for a reliable street motor. Some guys are claiming 200+ hp w/o a blower and on pump gas......bench racers that should be wearing rubber boots! The little Ford flathead is cool looking and sounds great. However, you are never going to take on modern OHV motors with an antique little L head unless they a very sickly (smog motors) and their drivers have senior center reaction times. You might be able to choose off a kid on a 10 speed, but stay away from LT1s, Mustage GTs & Rice burners!
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Old 05-04-2004, 12:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

You're on target about torque, Sam, but let's not be too quick to give the Henry motors that patronizing pat on their flat heads.

Jim "Jazzy" Nelson's Fiat-bodied AV8 -- probably about as light as the BFD -- ran 9s in the late '50s and was the dominant top-eliminator at San Fernando, week after week. Jazzy's 1956 9.10 record at SFDS is considered questionable by some, but San Fernando had a solid reputation for not squeezing the lights, unlike some other strips. The previous ET record, set in 1955, also at SFDS, was 9.44 by Lloyd Scott in the "Bustle Bomb," with a Cadillac V8 in the rear and an Oldsmobile V8 up front. Gotta wonder what Jazzy could have done with modern slicks . . .

Fast forward to the early '60s and consider Ed Bingelli's F/Gas Willys coupe that not only dominated its class in NorCal drag racing, but humbled E, D, C, B, and even an A/Gasser or three in end-of-the-day "king-of-the-hill" competition for all Gas class-winners at HMB, Fremont, Kingdon -- low and mid 12s with 286 inches of carbureted flathead. All done at 2200-plus pounds wet.

What tends to get forgotten is that these low-hp flatheads are decidedly undersquare -- a great configuration for developing bags of torque right away.




Last edited by av8; 06-28-2006 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 05-04-2004, 01:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

"Jazzy" and the flathead-powered Fiat. Please pardion the moire of the screened picture.


Last edited by av8; 06-28-2006 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 05-04-2004, 01:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I thought TATTOOS and FAT chicks in 50's skirts MADE you CAR FASTER???

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Old 05-04-2004, 01:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Duh Germ, Fat chicks give better head, making you push REAL hard on the gas.....
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I know Mike.

Tony Nancy had one hell of a good running, 10 second roadster, with a flathead in it.

But Smalls has ridden in almost every car I've built in the last 15 years... and each one of them ran 12's in street trim. I think the Roach Rod is the only exception... but 13 oh's @ 106 with a 4 speed and 5.5" wide tires makes that 13 flat seem like 11 flat.

Anyway, I think he should build what he set out to build... the satisfaction alone in seeing all that Ford stuff assembled into a running car is enough to make it more than worth while. The other day when I unloaded his freshly hot tanked Merc motor... I just looked at the nice casting, the block and its simplicity... and just smiled.
Sam.

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Old 05-04-2004, 10:14 AM   #14
av8
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Of course those SBCs were thirty- and forty-over 283s, right, Sam?

Is Smalls going to port his block? If so, I'd be happy to do one cylinder for him to use as a guide for doing the rest. Nothing radical, just a good street porting/port-matching job.
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Old 05-04-2004, 10:27 AM   #15
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Several random thoughts:
First, someone PLEASE drag out the circa 1955 R&C with the "world's most powerful flathead" story--I think that one, a blown fueler, was dynoed at about 500, and I think it was the motor that blew through the mythical 140-something in the quarter barrier that Huntington had computed...I can't find my copy, I think it's in two issues.
Next, ignore a lot of recent bookage and magazine articles with big numbers--they seem to be from computer simulations running optimistic breathing factors and such.
Third, don't be excessively alarmed by the LOW numbers you see--you get more bang than you would expect from the numbers, I think because, as AV8 says, the curve is low but it is very fat.
Think light car--you have too little displacement to get much in a big car. Remember, all the common points of comparison out on the street have 100 cubes on you. The OHV revolution was fueled as much by displacement as by efficiency--engines suddenly went up greatly in displacement in 1949!
I'm going to repost here an ancient test I've posted before with some of the very few real numbers from the fifties. Note that this test is with stock cam (a very serious cork) in a heavy car--estimate what moving this cheap little engine into a deuce and losing 1,000 pounds would do!
Also, I will soon post a matching test on a '49 Olds, which will surprise you...

A repost:
Here’s a dyno/drag test from about 1954, excerpted from the 1955 HRM annual. Real numbers from these times are scarce, and even E.T.’s were rarely reported. Most drag results were strictly MPH.
Note a few things about these tests: They are modifications on an existing used car, not a full build up. They are entirely bolt-on mods on a stock 239 short block, without even a cam change. The HP numbers are rear-wheel chassis dyno numbers, NOT flywheel HP. Onward:

The car involved was a stock 1940 Merc club coupe, which would have been a typical back-row-of-the-used-car-lot teenager’s car in 1954. The engine was a commercial rebuild, described as “in neither excellent nor in poor shape” with 12,000 miles since rebuild. The pictures show it to have a Stromberg and a dime store chrome aircleaner, probably giving a slight power loss from stock.

Stock with distributor freshly strobed and new plugs (H 10), it pulled 69 HP at 50 MPH on the rollers and turned a blazing 17.23 @65.47 MPH at the Santa Ana dragstrip.

Test 2 added a Sharp super dual with two 97's, stock except for .048 jets (I would think a bit rich?). This produced a 16.56 @ 71.01 MPH, power peak moved to 80 at 55MPH. (Power was tested at speeds from 30 to 60 in high, with practically all mods showing improvement at all tested power levels, by the way).

Test 3 was with the addition of 8.5 to 1 rated finned heads; They carefully avoid stating or showing brands, I would guess because they had so many advertisers to offend. They were R type heads requiring changing out the shorter studs. This produced 84 HP at the wheels at 55, and went16.07 @74.99 at Santa Ana.
Test 4 added dual exhausts and a pair of Hollywood Deeptone mufflers, used with stock manifolds. 86HP, 16 flat @ 75.01.

Test 6 added a Harmon-Collins dual coil, which produced only trivial gains over the fresh stock distributor.

And that was it for that issue–only modifications that an ignorant teenager with $5.00 worth of tools could have performed in dad’s driveway on Saturday. I really wish they had gone on to a cam and headers, but no such luck. Bruce.

P.S. Guesstimate those numbers into flywheel numbers, guess the weight (probably about 3300), and run them in standard formulas.
Results, while purely guesstimates, are interesting.






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Old 05-04-2004, 11:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Some more comments...

Bruce is a genuine flathead god in my book. I read his comments all of the time, and man I am always learning. Thanks Bruce.

I had one of my flathead engine blocks machined at Motor City when Kirby was still doing machine work. Although I was interested in a fast motor, my engine isn't scary fast compared to many. 286 ported, relieved, polished, big cam progressive 4- 97's Roto-Faze dist, Baron heads, blah blah blah, you know the drill. They machined everything there, but I bought all of the parts and assembled everything. Kirby claimed the set up was good for just under 200hp.


The big dollar Ardun motors and the blown mills he set up for his celebrety clients, he said were in the 220 range. Other than Bonneville motors in cars like Flatfire, I haven't seen or heard of many flatmotors in any car having more than that, and are really drivien anywhere. BUT! I never saw one running on a dyno, or saw a sheet from one run on a dyno. All based on what I was told. So of course I am skeptical.

These engines aren't for bragging about HP. I have to say I really like these engines and will always use one if I can. Expensive yes. Reliable... if built properly and with realistic expectations, absolutely yes. Lots and lots of power to beat a Viper or Porsche, no. Not in the same league. Never will be. But in my opinion, they are strong, and as cool or better than most engines. Easy to understand/comprehend, work on, service, adjust, and modify. Don't build a flathead if you aren't willing to compromise on it's limitations. You are likely to be disappointed.

I would love to drag race my roadster to see how it would do in the 1/4 mile... Also love to put it on a dyno and see just what it would pull. If I ever have the spare money, that would really be cool to do...

I still think most street flatmotors out there are in the 150-175 hp range no matter what configuration. ('cept the blown ones). They are just a more conservative engine. There is really no way to efectivly run a 671 blower and 8 carbs on one for a hp increase! Hey! ...Now that would look wild... I should copyright that...

Bill

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Old 05-04-2004, 11:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Although 200HP isn't a lot to some, in a little T that Fucking Rocks.

I don't know much about flatheads yet and the biggest thing that has always kept me away from them is power. I've alwasy been intrested in hearing what kinda of real world, naturally aspirated power was possible out of them, without blowing out the bottom end.

Some great posts here.
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Old 05-04-2004, 11:43 AM   #18
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Many flathead performance numbers seem pretty wild when compared to actual engine power. How fast were semi-streetable flathead highboys going at the lakes by the early fifties? AV8 can probably answer that one pretty well, but it's gonna be a pretty big number for an engine that was likely under 200 HP. A Camaro owner would probably start talking about 500 HP if he got up to 130.
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Old 05-04-2004, 12:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Bruce -- Do you have any sources for flathead torque figures?
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Bruce, I'm with you on what some of those cars did back then. Unbelieveable. I have a 5.9 R/T Dakota, and my little roadster with it's relatively low hp motor pulls that car so fast so quickly I am dissapointed to drive the pig motor in my Dodge! I can't believe 50 plus years ago there were guys taking cars and engines like that and running flat out to see what they'd do. It really is astonishing and unbelieveable to me. That's why I wanted a car/engine combo like it. You are right the Camaro guys prbably would claim 500hp if they clocked 130mph... It is a fact you don't need that much, not even 1/2 that hp to go that fast... Khougaz roadster 1949 Dry Lakes 141.95 mph witha a four carb edlebrock headed 296ci naturally aspirated flathead... maybe 200 hp. probably less... unbelievable...
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to drive it like a sum of a bitch and want to be able to roast em every once in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would look at your tire/gear ratio combo!!
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

[ QUOTE ]
What have you guys been able to get or seen pulled out of a flathead for horsepower?. I'm going to drive it like a sum of a bitch and want to be able to roast em every once in a while. Matt

The smarter, funnier, and better looking Strube Brother!

[/ QUOTE ]

Speed costs money how fast do ya wanna go?
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:02 PM   #23
Deuce Rails
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

[ QUOTE ]
Bruce is a genuine flathead god in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen.

One of the biggest reasons that flatheads don't put out big horsepower numbers is because they are limited in the RPMs they can run.

Horsepower= Torque times RPM divided by 5252.

How high can you get the RPM variable in that equation? Much higher in overhead valve engines, and even higher in overhead cam engines.

Here's a great link to Horsepower vs. Torque, by the way.
http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/torqueHP.htm

--Matt
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I have played around with a lot of low dollar flatheads trying to make some power without spending a ton of money, I will say once you keep revving the piss out of them the center main cap doesn't stay very happy, there is a couple different sets of main caps you can get but then your talking line boring and total dissassembly, one motor I had fun with is a stock 4" motor .30 over pistons and a weird cam I have no idea what it is, adjustable lifters of course but here's where I found the biggest gains, carb jetting and spacing the carbs above the manifold, I tryed drilling about 15 different jets and did plug chops till i got it right, it's no rocket ship but it does pull pretty good for a flatmotor, for the main caps if you decide to go that far you can check out http://www.wilcap.com/webdoc6.htm

"Muthaheads"
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:49 PM   #25
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Here's the only stuff I have at hand, since I'm at work. This is from a 1944 dated dyno test by Ford, prewar Merc stocker.
rpm torque HP
500 152 15
1000 171 33
1500 180 50
2000 182 70
2500 178 84
3000 168 96
3500 153 102
4000 138 103
That's all they wrote...

Note that most of the engine's torque is available throughout its range. Horsepower is diddlysquat because it is a derived factor based on multiplication, and at low RPM you are multiplying small factors.
Note that this is a FAT torque curve, hence flathead acceleration is MUCH better than the HP numbers show--the formula for HP doesn't start to get exciting until after 5250, right where even hot flattys should be looking for the next gear.
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I'm not sure how many horsepower I'm making, but with the new 4-71 blower I put on top of my flathead I'm going 14.00 in my full fendered all steel '34. That was my first run with the setup so I obviously have a LOT of tuning to do. The run was made with 4-5psi of boost, but I've got pullies that'll bring it up as high as the motor will take.

All my pictures of the motor aren't online yet, but here's one taken while I was still putting things together:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/zackbass/IMG_0134.JPG
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:10 PM   #27
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Wow, you really screwed up your 14 second campaign by skipping that entire bracket!
I have a whole box gathered up of old and new supercharger books to drag up to Denville.
This should be a good summer for you! What is your current target time for the tuning campaign?
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I have heard this flathead run without the blower, it sounds like he has a worked out overhead hidden inside that flatmotor.


"Muthaheads"
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I can tell you that my sons highboy 32 will will blow your doors off from 0 to 60. With the work we've done to the engine I'd rate it at 165 HP. Like everone has said it's not the HP with a flathead and a good engine will surprise you.--TV
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:21 PM   #30
MattStrube
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Thanks everyone for the info. Sorry I haven't responded sooner, but I work nights and sleep days...The only reason I asked about HP's was to find out how quick my little AV8 has the potential for, while still keeping it "drivable" for long trips and such.
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Old 05-05-2004, 09:23 AM   #31
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

You'll get more grins per HP than any other engine!
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

[ QUOTE ]
You'll get more grins per HP than any other engine!

[/ QUOTE ]

Heck, I'll just be happy to be grinning!
A smooth, dependable Flathead in my "A" is all I'm going for. HP... who cares!
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Old 05-06-2004, 12:55 PM   #33
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Some noise from the past:
R&C April 1955: The Yates-Newmire flathead, run in the Chrisman dragster, Barney Navarro as unindicted co-conspirator. .060" over '46 Merc (248"), 3-71 blower, 50% nitro. 435 HP on dyno. Only a shakedown run, reached indicated 140 when cooling hoses blew and coasted through at 131. Cheap studs blamed. I believe there's more stuff in the next issue, but haven't found that yet.
Not quite a street motor (!), but interesting number.
From the 1955 HRM Annual, 1954 numbers: Engine/Chassis shown. Some OHV numbers included. Very little reporting of ET's at this time period.
Merc/dragster 125.69
'49 Olds/dragster 123.79

Sports car hill climb road racing in same book was dominated by a mix of early and shoebox Fords--actual sports cars humiliated by '34 Fords and such. No wonder they split off and founded their own silly hobby...

Some 1954 NHRA records:

'51 Chrysler/Fuel dragster 139.77
'27Tfuel roadster/'46 Ford 116.72
Comp Coupe Nelson Fiat/'42 Merc 123.05
'36 Ford/'41 Merc 103.27

A Fuel Roadster '32 Ford/'46 Merc 103.52
B fuel roadster '32 Ford/'53 Ford 86.30

Street roadsters:
A-'31 Ford/'51 Merc, 99.78
B-'32 Ford/'48 Merc 90.12
C-'29 Ford/'40 Ford 89.85
Gas Altered-'34 Ford/'46 Merc 100.41
Gas class A-'32 Ford/'52 Cad-93.09
B-'39 Ford/'51 Olds 98.58
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Old 05-06-2004, 03:18 PM   #34
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

My flathead will get in the neighborhood of 4000 HP and run on nuclear fission...

I'm planning on breaking the sound barrier in a 49 Merc.

Performance is relative. Choose your battles.
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Old 05-06-2004, 03:36 PM   #35
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Depends on if yer talking Clydesdales or Quarter Horses.
The Budweiser Beer Wagon ain't fast, but it sure looks cool!

I asked my old man that question once and he said:
"Stock from the factory, 90 to 100 H.P."
"But after we hopped them up with cams and carbs and heads and headers, Hell. Some of them were probably pushing an easy 90 to 100 H.P.!"
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

More dusty numbers from the past: Found a 59A chart, looks the same as the prewar chart above with just very slightly higher numbers. Also has BMEP, compression, fuel, and friction curves--a very busy sheet of paper.

Here's a '51 Merc graph reduced to words. The '52-3 got a hotter cam, but don't have numbers for that engine:

1951 Merc engine:

RPM Torque HP
500 178(!) not shown
1000 190 37
1500 202 58
2000 206 77
2500 200 94
3000 187 107
3500 170 112
4000 147 110
I'll repeat prewar Merc here for comparison:

500 152 15
1000 171 33
1500 180 50
2000 182 70
2500 178 84
3000 168 96
3500 153 102
4000 138 103
That's all they wrote...

Looks like that stack of Merc cranks is worth keeping!
All flathead folk should run out and buy the current repro of my favorite childhood book, Roger Huntington's "How to Hop Up Ford and Mercury V8 engines" from 1952.
It has lots of engineering charts of stock and modified engines.
Also, my various USA and Canadian Ford service bulletins have numerous dyno charts, some with other info as the 59A chart I mention.
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Old 05-07-2011, 08:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Thanks for the incredible amount of information. Do higher compression heads make the already slow cranking motor worse? Can you wire a tach backwards on a positive ground 6v?
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

It all comes down to cubic inches and cubic dollars . . . both are required to push the horsepower much over 175. You can build a nice 1/4" stroker, 3 5/16 bore flathead, ported/relieved - 276 cubes and make somewhere between 150 - 175. These are torque motors, so in a light car . . . with some low gears, you'll be surprised how they'll pull. A good strong 276 cube motor is easy to build, won't kill you on cost and you'll have a ton of flathead fun with it.

You can also spend $12,000 - 20,000 to end up with a flathead that is closer to 300 HP. Like all HP quests . . . the first 50% increase is relatively inexpensive, the next 50% triples the cost.

Or you buy a SBC crate motor for $6000 that makes 400+ HP . . . it is all about what you're looking for, what you can spend and what you can do yourself!
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

....Favorite Part about this thread.........Germ Posted the perfect answer for this question. 7 YEARS AGO!
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:26 PM   #40
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

wheeewww....all this flathead talk....sure beats that 1-900 - number....
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:37 PM   #41
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

my 304 stroker good for around 250hp maybe a little more

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Old 05-07-2011, 11:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Here's what I'm up to....hehe Just getting ready to set this 4-71 on my rad flattie...we'll see what happens. Mitchell intake, 2 holley 2100's, a 4" merc crank, Isky cam and offy heads. Yep, thats a 700r4 AOD.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Those are great looking engines
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:07 AM   #44
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster View Post
Many flathead performance numbers seem pretty wild when compared to actual engine power. How fast were semi-streetable flathead highboys going at the lakes by the early fifties? AV8 can probably answer that one pretty well, but it's gonna be a pretty big number for an engine that was likely under 200 HP. A Camaro owner would probably start talking about 500 HP if he got up to 130.
I transplanted a 85 IROC motor (305, 215hp) in an 83 Camaro (3300#), only real mod was headers - would do 130 easily. Though it cut a 14.997 1/4 on street rubber it would get eaten alive by early Fords.
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Old 05-08-2011, 07:57 AM   #45
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

How much of the flattie's torque can be attributed to heavy rotating mass? In other words, if you lighten the crank and use an aluminum flywheel will you kill the torque numbers?
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:07 AM   #46
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

the flattie's torque can be attributed to heavy rotating mass? In other words, if you lighten the crank and use an aluminum flywheel will you kill the torque numbers?

Others can weigh in on the question above, which is a good one, but it's my experience that light rotating mass has a very positive effect on acceleration.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:19 AM   #47
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I saw a '39 Ford with a flattie pull 80 HP in a chassis dyno. People giggled at the number, I was impressed. It takes balls to put something like that on the rollers after the guy with the blown 502 rat motor just pulled 630-somthing. That said, the guy told me he rebiult the flathead in 1973 and it's just needed adjustment and routine stuff since. Lesson here is, keep it realistic and keep it running. We build these cars to impress ourselves as individuals, let the rest be damned.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:46 AM   #48
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster View Post
Here's the only stuff I have at hand, since I'm at work. This is from a 1944 dated dyno test by Ford, prewar Merc stocker.
rpm torque HP
500 152 15
1000 171 33
1500 180 50
2000 182 70
2500 178 84
3000 168 96
3500 153 102
4000 138 103
That's all they wrote...

Note that most of the engine's torque is available throughout its range. Horsepower is diddlysquat because it is a derived factor based on multiplication, and at low RPM you are multiplying small factors.
Note that this is a FAT torque curve, hence flathead acceleration is MUCH better than the HP numbers show--the formula for HP doesn't start to get exciting until after 5250, right where even hot flattys should be looking for the next gear.
Whats interesting about the magic 5250 rpm number is that is where the hp and torque curves cross paths on all our engines


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Old 05-08-2011, 11:32 AM   #49
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

If you plan on abusing a flathead,like a 50's teenager,you WON'T be the SMARTER Strube brother. Hot rodding and flatheads are all about nostalgia. NOTHING sounds as great as a flathead with a wicked cam,and Smithy's mufflers. You can have a lot of fun with a stock drive train,but you can not dump the clutch on a Hot fllat head,without blowing the trans,or rear axle. Fix one weak link,and the next weak link breaks. The one weak link you can not fix,is 3 main bearings. I built a mild street engine for my 1800# T-bucket,for under $3000,and it is a ball to drive. My heavy 47 sedan has a 286 inch Motor City flathead,that cost $7500, fifteen years ago. It sounds wicked driving down the road,or idleing through a cruise night. I am a teenager again,only smarter now.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #50
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Mass of the flywheel will affect the moment of inertia of the rotating assembly which will impact the accleration/deceleration of the crankshaft, not change the torque. A large factor in a flathead's torque is due to its undersquare design.
Regarding HP that can be realistically achieved; attached are the corrected dyno HP/torque curves of a recently completed stroked 284 ci 8BA flathead built for reliable street use by Abbin and McGlasson. The engine was run both normally aspirated (3X2s) and supercharged (Weiand 142) to compare output:
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:24 PM   #51
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy2car View Post
Those are great looking engines
Thanks
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #52
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattStrube View Post
What have you guys been able to get or seen pulled out of a flathead for horsepower?. I'm going to drive it like a sum of a bitch and want to be able to roast em every once in a while. Matt
First tell us what your expectations are for engine life and collateral damage to your bank account.

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Old 05-08-2011, 01:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4t7flat View Post
If you plan on abusing a flathead,like a 50's teenager,you WON'T be the SMARTER Strube brother. Hot rodding and flatheads are all about nostalgia. NOTHING sounds as great as a flathead with a wicked cam,and Smithy's mufflers. You can have a lot of fun with a stock drive train,but you can not dump the clutch on a Hot fllat head,without blowing the trans,or rear axle. Fix one weak link,and the next weak link breaks. The one weak link you can not fix,is 3 main bearings. I built a mild street engine for my 1800# T-bucket,for under $3000,and it is a ball to drive. My heavy 47 sedan has a 286 inch Motor City flathead,that cost $7500, fifteen years ago. It sounds wicked driving down the road,or idleing through a cruise night. I am a teenager again,only smarter now.
We have a winner!!
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:52 PM   #54
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Joe Abbin at Roadrunner Engineering in New Mexico has a book about his supercharged flattie that puts out 336 HP. He sells the blower kit and tells all about how to do it.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:10 PM   #55
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I gotta admit, even tho I love the looks of a flattie, I wasn't impressed with the power......... however.... I couldn't believe the torque this little shit put out. I have a stock '47 59l engine in a '29 roadster. It has three carbs, but only the center working. On this cars maiden voyage I had forgotten to put the plate on it. As I ran into town and around the block, my shift handle broke off flush with the trans. (t-5 with a stupid 3 foot handle) I came down the hill and turned a corner in 5th gear (3:55 rear). This 'ol flathead didn't even hesatate pulling around the corner. Kinda sounded like my dads old tractor, but didn't miss a lick, just kept pullin". A local cop saw me and just smiled and shook his head as I ker-putted out of town. Ya just gotta love these 'ol things.
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:24 PM   #56
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Heres some of our real numbers from our Bonneville project truck in 2006. We have another new bigger motor with hilborn yet to test.
181 hp was our last shot ......

www.gasolinealleyshops.org
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:30 PM   #57
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I've never paid so much to go so slow.
...but I still love my little flathead.
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

There is an article in the latest Bonneville Racing News about Rick Schnell's Blown nitro flathead. . Pulled 939HP @6700rpm.
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:43 PM   #59
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie


Gil Ayala ran this full custom merc 129mph under flathead power.
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:49 PM   #60
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Someone once asked an engine builder that same question, answer was "How much money you got?"
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Haha! Iwas goimg to post that! speed costs money,how fast can you afford to go?
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:29 PM   #62
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Default Re: HOW Many HP\'s can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin Joe View Post
Depends on if yer talking Clydesdales or Quarter Horses.
The Budweiser Beer Wagon ain't fast, but it sure looks cool!

I asked my old man that question once and he said:
"Stock from the factory, 90 to 100 H.P."
"But after we hopped them up with cams and carbs and heads and headers, Hell. Some of them were probably pushing an easy 90 to 100 H.P.!"
Now that's funny!
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:17 PM   #63
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwmpa View Post
Thanks
Tell em how much money you have in that good lookin engine.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:30 PM   #64
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

NMCarNut
What are the specs on the cam in the engine pictured and dynoed? Valve sizes, etc?
Thanks
Jim
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:50 PM   #65
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by NMCarNut View Post
Mass of the flywheel will affect the moment of inertia of the rotating assembly which will impact the accleration/deceleration of the crankshaft, not change the torque. A large factor in a flathead's torque is due to its undersquare design.
Regarding HP that can be realistically achieved; attached are the corrected dyno HP/torque curves of a recently completed stroked 284 ci 8BA flathead built for reliable street use by Abbin and McGlasson. The engine was run both normally aspirated (3X2s) and supercharged (Weiand 142) to compare output:
Every dyno has it's own numbers -- some are known to be a bit optimistic. I'd love to know what is in this 284 cube motor to make 200 HP . . . would also love to see it on somebody else's dyno
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:33 PM   #66
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

The basic specs are:
8BA block ported and relieved with heavy duty center main cap
Scat 4-1/8" stroke crankshaft
Scat H-beam forged rods
Ross 3-5/16" Forged pistons with stock dome
1.6" SST valves (intake and exhaust)
Isky Max 1 camshaft and 185G springs
Mercury EAC heads with machined valve pockets

And yea, seeing more than a few optimistic dynos around I fully understand the comment. But seeing what a few of the other engines actually do that come off this dyno I tend to believe the results at least as much as any other I see FWIW.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:34 AM   #67
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

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Tell em how much money you have in that good lookin engine.
Well I thought $16500....but I totaled it up and it was just under $17000
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Old 05-09-2011, 11:18 AM   #68
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Sorry if I posted this twice, Will the increased compression from a set of aluminum heads make the already slow cranking 6v starter worse?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:53 PM   #69
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

KWMPA
You've got a lot of nerve keeping those receipts around the house. LOL
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:17 PM   #70
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

jimmy im 26 and single...and dont really have any bills so i invest in cars...
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:06 AM   #71
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

i have a 239 merc crank four barrel carb stock heads stock cam adjustable lifters in my truck its in front of a c4 with 3.0 rear end gears. it gets up and runs good if i went up with the rear end gears I'm sure she would spin the tires all day long. the thing is it doesn't sound like a sbc it sounds like Henry wanted it to
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:11 AM   #72
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

What is red line for a Flathead?
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:27 AM   #73
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Wow....$17,000.00 in that pretty flathead......?
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:46 AM   #74
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Originally Posted by collectorjohn View Post
Sorry if I posted this twice, Will the increased compression from a set of aluminum heads make the already slow cranking 6v starter worse?
It can but there are tons of other variables that effect cranking torque required. Most of the time a proper rebuild of the starter is enough to overcome any compression related issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grander View Post
What is red line for a Flathead?
4000 is where all the doc's that I have stop posting power numbers. I am sure that mine can spin higher then that but whats the point. With all the power down low in the rpm range you should be more worried about gearing.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:00 AM   #75
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I'm taking advantage of the low-end torque by running a 700R4 tranny, with the lowest (automatic) 1st gear and the high overdrive, you get the best of both worlds...also a 411 banjo helps. Run some skinnys and make some smoke !!!
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:11 AM   #76
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Quote:
Well I thought $16500....but I totaled it up and it was just under $17000
Yikes. There's a man who loves his flatties. I love the way they look and sound, but I couldn't shell that kind of dough for that low of a horsepower number. My opinion, no disrespect meant.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:16 AM   #77
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

i have really been enjoying this thread.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:21 AM   #78
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Figuring out how much HP you can get from a flattir is really simple. Do some research and find out how much HP Bobby Meeks and Jazzy Nelson got from their flathead. And then divide by two.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:38 AM   #79
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

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Originally Posted by 1935Ron View Post
Wow....$17,000.00 in that pretty flathead......?
Yeah pretty much

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Originally Posted by Flat-N-Low View Post
Yikes. There's a man who loves his flatties. I love the way they look and sound, but I couldn't shell that kind of dough for that low of a horsepower number. My opinion, no disrespect meant.
None taken. Spending that kinda cash isn't about the HP numbers that motor represents Racing's past....it's a symbol of where we have come from. Yeah it's a lot to pay for something like that but I'd do it everyday of my life if I could....and yes flatheads are beyond an obsession for me...I mean he'll I own a 1949 ford instustal power unit with a 337ci flathead in it
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:46 AM   #80
HambBurglar
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Can anyone explain what "undersquare design" means and how it relates to torque?
Also, if the center main bearing is a weak link, are the main cap straps that are advertised really a good, cheap method to strengthen the center main? I am planning a 276 flattie for my 30 A coupe. Is lightening the flywheel the right choice for this car? This will be my first flathead, so tips from the truly experienced are a huge help.
Lastly, the car will have a T5 trans and 9" rear. So, if that eliminates the weak links behind the motor, do I have free reign to drive like a 50's teenager? Ha Ha
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:11 PM   #81
Redbows35panel
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Hey Guys, I just purchased a 1938 Ford sedan with an 85 horse flatty. Would like to run down the expressway at 65 or 70 for 6+ hour or so on occasion.
Will it do it as is or what do I need to change to make so it will?
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:24 PM   #82
Jack E/NJ
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

HamBurglar>>>Can anyone explain what "undersquare design" means and how it relates to torque?>>>

Stroke length is greater than cylinder diameter. Highest torque usually develops at lower rpms than oversquare designs.

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Old 05-15-2011, 01:36 PM   #83
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

stroke length is greater than cylinder diameter= undersquare
stroke= to diameter of cylinder..."square"
cylinder diameter greater than stroke= oversquare
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:17 PM   #84
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

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Originally Posted by Redbows35panel View Post
Hey Guys, I just purchased a 1938 Ford sedan with an 85 horse flatty. Would like to run down the expressway at 65 or 70 for 6+ hour or so on occasion.
Will it do it as is or what do I need to change to make so it will?
Get an overdrive trans. or change rear axle to 3.54 gears.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:17 PM   #85
Henry Floored
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

The biggest wall in the Flathead Ford horsepower equation is the so called transfer area and combustion chamber position relative to the intake valve. The incoming air charge is choked off as it passes the intake valve seat and smacks straight into the cyl head. It's obvious there is a fundamental restriction evidenced by the 150- 180hp plateau. The thinking behind the transfer area of the cyl head is to get the charge to turn down into the cyl. This works fine at low rpm, but get up into the performance range and that transfer area needs to be raised up. The only practical way to do this is to use a high dome or pop up piston with a corresponding raised combustion chamber and transfer area.

Lycoming had a different idea on improving breathing efficiency on a sidevalve engine. I think the existence of this design proves that there is a need for improvement in this area.

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Old 05-15-2011, 10:23 PM   #86
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

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Get an overdrive trans. or change rear axle to 3.54 gears.
2x, Yep like the banger, top end for the consumer is in gearing. Just my .02cents
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:26 PM   #87
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

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Here's what I'm up to....hehe Just getting ready to set this 4-71 on my rad flattie...we'll see what happens. Mitchell intake, 2 holley 2100's, a 4" merc crank, Isky cam and offy heads. Yep, thats a 700r4 AOD.

I have a question for you.. i know most guys on here like there 3 pedals.. but i cant drive one because of a accident.. so im stuck with a auto.. out of curiosity.. using the trans you did would that hurt performance lets say of a stock flat.. or do you have to build it up first before you can use a auto..
odd question, but iv always just assumed you needed a stick with 4 bangers and what not to take advantage of what little they had to offer.

not decided on a engine for my winter project.. probably gonna be a slant 6. but i have a 2.3 i could have for free but iv not accepted simply because iv always figured it would be worthless with out a stick.

anyhow, nice engines and thanks.
chris.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:56 PM   #88
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I used t see the Scotty's Muffler Shop (Colton, CA) that had a 336 flathead with an Ardun conversion OHV and Algon injectors get 466hp at the rear wheels of a T bucket Dragster. That was in 1959.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:40 PM   #89
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

This is the top end of Flathead performance.

Rick Schnell's 930 Hp nitro breathing beast, also known as the world's fastest flathead powered dragster. It runs into the sevens @ 175+, but has a short life span (he pushed the head gasket out the side on his 3rd pass the day I snapped this pic).


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Old 07-17-2011, 06:43 PM   #90
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

holy smokes that flathead is bad to the bone.. and seems like it was a expensive run.. but i bet the guy will love the bragging rights for years to come? heh. im saving that photo, love the look of the flat heads.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:04 PM   #91
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I think the flathead experts have said it all, you can easily make 150/170HP by picking the right parts, but making it "reliable for long trips" is another question.
Kind of like Joe Abbin's 34 Ford drag car with blown flathead............he runs in the low 13's and high 12's with a light car and fairly expensive motor. I believe the first motor he now has in a street car and has logged over 4k miles................which seems reliable to me especially after it came out of the drag car that had XXX many runs on it.
To make over 250hp will require some bucks, special heads, blower setup, girdle, etc., etc.
Here are some pictures of the motor I started..............and planned to make 300HP at the crank.......................and I spent around $10k....................now I am building a new motor for my Ole 1970 B/SM Maverick..........last year it did 9.901 @133 in the quarter.....and the car with me weighs 3325lbs...................for about the same price as the flathead motor I plan on getting into the mid 9's...................The flathead motor is truly a labor of love, and the old saying that has held true for the 30+ years I have been in drag racing is still true, "How fast you want to go is directly related to the amount of $$$ you spend". Oh, one more thing, you need to pay extreme attention to detail, like the crank which is 4.125 Merc stroker that has been nitrid'd, shot peened, and index'd, not to mention the SCAT I beam rods that were resized right out of the brand new box..............and the Ross pistons that were lighten and have lightweight tool steel pins.............I still have the short block and when the Maverick is finished I will put this motor in a little short wheel base drag frame and will turn in the 12's with carb's....................I hope.
IMHO
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:09 PM   #92
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

I've debated a lot on whether to post this or not, but decided to go ahead.
One day Bruce is going to give up the REAL secrets of Ford Flathead power. But today, I'm going to tell you all a story that should make some of you real believers in the flatheads ability to produce horse power. Just keep this in prospective. It is a flathead. It has it's limitations.
In 1990, Ken Kloth upped the existing XFPRO speed by 13 MPH. Ken was protested. The biggest problem with the protest was keeping the prying eyes of his competitors away. Everything was legal. In 1991 he set the current record of 140.5 mph. The car has gone faster. Much faster.
The car, a 50 Merc, weighed 4350# with Ken in it. A fully legal roll cage, etc.
Now, the engine in this car still looks like a flathead. No extra exhaust pipes out of the top of the engine. Just a little flathead: It was the same engine that came in the car when Ken bought it.
267 CI
BIG roller cam
1.6 Intake valves, stock exhaust
stock Merc crank, stock rods
Ross pistons
No crank girdle, just a center main support
Custom Offenhauser heads
Single Holley 600 carb
Electronic ignition (HEI and also coil to plug)
Tube exhaust tried and 180 headers tried.
The engine is LOUD. Loud like an engine of much greater displacement. When Ken would start it people would literally run to see the thing.
Remember this is 1991, 20 years ago.
Now, we'll go back to 1955, with the debut of the Chrysler 300. Remember that? Well, Chrysler brought that to see how fast it would go. It went pretty good. How good? 127mph. How much HP did it have? It was supposed to have 300. It must have had at least that because no factory was going to bring a car with less than it had advertised. They brought a team with the car.
Reason I bring this up is that both the Merc and Chrysler have about the same frontal area, and weigh about the same, although weight isn't really an issue on the salt. It wasn't until 1956 that Chrysler was able to hit 140 mph with the higher powered 300B model.
So to go 140 mph is no mean feat. It takes power to do it, and lots of it.
Next people say "Well, it's almost impossible to determine HP from speed, because there are so many factors". Wind, temp, track conditions, etc. AND, that's pretty much true. Sooo, the HP necessary for a particular speed is difficult to determine. BUT, known to only a very very few, the Kloth flathead was raced: Drag-Raced once. Three passes, using a borrowed 9" center section with less than optimum gears. 3.5 as I recall.
No ET records kept., Best speed was 93 mph. Would have been better had the gearing been correct, because the engine was over revving in 3rd and under in 4th. Several hundred rpm away from the normal 6000/6200 shift points.
Car was also driven to the local cruise nights. Don't know if it qualifies as streetable, because the idle speed was about 1600 rpm. But
I think you will find by doing the math (HP calcs), in excess of 275 Hp from 267 CI. Little engine showed 109% VE.
Point is, it can be done. Remember- no blower, no nitrous, no fuel. 87-89 octane gas
No secrets here. Everything I've posted has been published somewhere, sometime.
Engine was sold some years ago and hasn't surfaced since, although there have been rumors about it. I think Bruce has it, cuz it's in his state. He's hiding it, ha ha

Forgot to add: No big ports like we've all seen in articles and posts, and Compression of Less than 6:1 static

Last edited by Jimmy2car; 11-12-2011 at 11:58 PM. Reason: add info
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:26 PM   #93
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

i`m surprised no ones mentioned this mill
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:42 AM   #94
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Thanks Jimmy. The Kenny Kloth story is a fascinating one. I remember a couple things from an article I read in a book about him and that little Merc Flathead. The first corresponds with the 6:1 compression ratio that you mentioned. The article stated that Kloth found that the balance between intake flow and compression in a Flathead worked best when flow was maximized. I am assuming that the camshaft was designed in such a way as to improve the dynamic compression of the engine to help the somewhat low mechanical compression ratio needed in this engine to make way for a free flowing intake charge.
The second thing I remember was a unique experimental head design that had an intake port above the intake valve to turn and carry the charge to the center of the cylinder like in a typical OHV engine. The article explained that this method did not work. If I could place a bet I would put my money on Kloth found a different way to do that.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:32 AM   #95
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Default Re: HOW Many HP's can you realistically get out of a Flattie

Henry
You'd win that bet.
Most folks think that there is some magic item that made the engine powerful. Like many things it's all in the combination. I remember Kenny loaning his special heads to another competitor. Guess what? No improvement
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