HEMI tech- Chevy H2O pump and pulleys?

Thinking of switching to a chevy water pump for the early 331. I noticed there is a conversion for SB and BB Chevy water pumps. Which one should I use? The BB Chevy pump seems the more typical.

Next questions. Pulleys. I noticed that Hot Hemi Heads sells pulleys for the the conversion but they're that billet looking crap. I really want more OEM looking steel ones that I can powdercoat or paint to match...

* Can I use stock Chevy water pump pulleys?
* Will it line up with the lower crank pully slots?
* will it be the right diameter so the pump RPM's will be correct to cool the motor correctly?
* can I use the chevy with the chrysler pulley or do I need to find a matching set of pulleys that will work?

 

i've seen a hemi with one of these conversions. I always wonder why? how often does a water pump go bad that you have to worry about part stores? when it does go bad, usually they weep slowly and you have lots of warning to get a replacement.

plus the chevy pump doesn't look right on the motor. they really look like a conversion.

 

Parts availability for a '53 Chrysler water pump are somewhat scarce I believe. I think you're more likely to rebuild one yourself with whatever parts you can score from other Mopar pumps (some parts are interchangable I hear)... Myself, I'm planning on driving the hell out of my car including going on some road trips. It would be good to know I can stop by any autoparts store in the US and get a new water pump if I have to. They really don't look that bad if your entire engine is one color anyway. If it were chrome or polished aluminum or something, then it would stick out like a sore thumb and not look right at all. I wan't steel pulleys colored to match the rest of the motor for this same reason. Aluminum ones's don't look right to me.

 

I have been playing arounds a bit on this as well, I agree that the chevy pump does not look that good but which looks worse?......going into the firewall or the pump. I do not like the billet pulleys and am going to find a way to do without, I was thinking of maybe using the the hot heads lower pulley and filling the holes on it and painting it but I need to find a water pump pulley off a stock GM car or truck with a single groove that will line up with the bottom pulley. Let me know if you come up with a pulley solution, I won't be getting back to the pulley setup for about a month.

 

like I said before, of all the things likely to go bad, once rebuilt, your water pump isn't one of them. the hemi pump may not be a nice neat piece but it matches the look of the rest of the motor. the casting style, curves all just seem to match the hemi "personality" the chevy pump is to angular not "beefy" looking to really fit with the look.

 

The BBC is the one that fits. Most any parts store has them in stock, though a buddy of mine let his OEM on weep for a yr or more. If you want to use the stock timing cover & fuel pump the long BBC pump will fit. Both my pump & crank pullys are 61/2" across. W/P pulley 3" deep w long pump. wp is double pulley, crank is triple.

 

I've got it set up both ways - all Mopar stuff on my coupe (open engine bay) and I made a conversion to run a BBC on my Rambler's 392.
And yes for those wondering why you'd convert you only need to try and find a pump to see why. They are at times VERY difficult ot find and when you do they can be EXPENSIVE - a fella I know paid over 200 bucks for one a couple years ago. For me - I have rebuilt several 392 pumps - using as mentioned - other mopar pumps I got cheap at swap meets - FWIW almost all that era used the SAME shaft and bearing set - but used several different diameter pump vanes - some iron - some plastic. I could get these oddball units for 10 or 20 bucks - then I'd remachine the pump housing to get a smooth surface for the new seal. that's what normally happens (from the ones I've redone) the surface corrodes - tears up the seal - then the anitfreeze washes out the grease from the bearing - then Blamo!!! By the time you notice it's too late.

So when converting to use a Big Block Chevy pump I scrounged my milk crate of pulleys to find one that was SMALL - the reason being that stock BBC pumps run right around Crank Speed - while factory Hemi pumps run substantially LESS than crank speed. Mine has run fine this way - While I made my own adapter plates - they are so darned cheap nowadays that I suppose it was silly for me to waste time making them.

The SBC pumps I believe are only adapted to the smaller Hemi's - meaning Dodge Desoto etc (not sure which exactly) but point being I think htey only use the BBC for the Chrysler Hemi motors. I got a aluminum BBC pump CHEAP at a swap meet - 40 bucks.

BTW if you decide to make this conversion - you need a shorter timing cover ONLY if you run a SHORT BBC pump - otherwise I'm failry certain you can run a stock cover IF you run the LONG BBC pump. Worth looking into maybe.

 

On the Dodge 241 ci in order to put a chevy waterpump on it you have to: Pull the cam and take the water pump lobe off the front and drill and retap it.. I stuck to my original one and alway looking for more waterpumps to have on hand.. I haven't had a bad one yet " Knock Wood"

 

What he said! For every reason he just said I will be changing! The one I have is completely shot and barely even turns as it sits. I like to stay pure, but I'm also thinking there is a line I don't want to cross and that's one of them I don't feel like crossing.

I will be ditching the stock cover for a cover that combines the adapters for the BBC. I don't want to deal with too many adapters. New cover, new pump, new pulleys. And yes, short BBC pump. I need all the space I can get up there!

 

Don't see it mentioned here, but the other big reason for going to the BBC pump is the weight savings. The stock piece weighs a ton compared to an aluminum BBC pump.

 

Also a good point! Heavy ass motor could use a diet!

 

Just for reference, here's the water pump pulley from HHH:

The crank pulley:

Anyone barfing yet? The bottom isn't quite as bad because you won't see it as much and could maybe be coated/painted to "quiet it" a bit.

 

I used a SBC pump on my 354. The top bolt holes actually line up with the block. Made my own spacers. Just chose a pulley the diameter I wanted and made the adapters to the depth I needed for pulley alignment.

 

Who sells a small diameter, steel, stock type, single groove BBC pulley for a short pump? OR what vehicles in the yard should I look for?

 

The Hot Heads kits use an SBC pump for the 331, as opposed to the BBC pump for the later 354-392.

I used a stock pump and pump housing for my 331, and you have to have your core rebuilt if it needs it. There isn't anyone that has rebuilt water pumps in stock for Chryslers....so no exchanges. If you dont have a core, you're SOL.

Kanter will rebuild your original water pump if you send it to them.

The Hot Heads conversion looks good if it's painted the same color as the block, but I couldn't bring myself to use it on my Hemi.

The solution to the "out on the road and the water pump went south" problem when using the original pump is to find a second spare pump and throw it in your toolbox for the trip. They come up on ebay periodically.

I used a pair of swap meet SBC chrome pulleys on mine, and had a friend machine spacer/adapters to mount them on the water pump and harmonic balancer....and I used a 340 balancer.

On my next 331 I'm going to use a Howard finned timing cover I picked up this weekend and try to adapt a 440 water pump to it.

 

Bass, can you post a pick of that Howard cover?

 

I used the hotheads pullies and bbc pump it saved me the space I need to get a cooling fan to work on my car. I'd rather have steel myself but settled for the aluminum.

 

I'd like to see that too, I didnt even know Howard even made timing covers...

I'm using a BBC pump, primarily because it's cheap. I got mine for $10. Second, I plan to drive my car. If i ever actually do have a pump go bad, I can walk into any parts store anywhere and get a replacment. I got a box of pullys off e-bay with a lot of mics. Hemi stuff. There happened to be a single groove pully that almost had the right bolt holes, so I ovaled them out slightly(like 1/32"), and used washers to space it out so it lines up.

 

Funny...I'm just about to head out to the shop to see if one of my stock pumps will work behind my blower drive....film at eleven.

I have the Hot Heads adapters but I really want to use a stock pump.

As far as breakdowns...I guess I'd have to put in a Chevy trans, Chevy rear end, Chevy brakes, Chevy radiator, yada yada yada... just to be safe...

 

ill be using the hot heads stuff on my 331.i dont think the chevy pump looks bad..but im used to looking at that pump ...between the weight ,cost and able to get one anywhere ..

 

Ok I am torn between the bbc pump and stock pump as well but I'm a bit more mental since I lay in bed at night for hours thinking about things like this, tonight I measured the saving's between a stock 55 hemi pump and the bbc pump setup, you save a little over an inch with the bbc pump so I decided that's not good enough to justify using a bbc pump. I put the stock pump on the prsee and completely disassembled it finding inside the front snout there is a bearing race almost 2 inches long, when I get around to it I'm going to turn the main shaft down about 1 1/4" and mill the little front snout on the original housing down, the only thing is I'm going to have to measure and find a bearing that will fit on the stock shaft with the proper inside and outside diameter and it will also need to be about 3/4" long. This is not really where I'm at on my build but have been thinking alot about it, when I do get to it I will post my findings and how I make out. As far as having a backup for being stranded 500 miles from home if it works out I will turn down an extra shaft and keep an extra rebuild kit on hand.

 

Actually, now that you mention it, I am going to use a Chevy trans(Th400) and a Ford rear(9") for strength, cost, and avalibility

 

I have a constant thought of how that monstrosity took place a few years back.
I reckon a good 'ol boy somewhere in the southern states found out one morning that his hemi (to him a motor) that watered his 30 acres of tater crop was getting warm. He turns the (motor) off. Though he is right handed, his right hand still has the stench of the sheep he just molested. Unwilling to spoil that fresh sheep stench on his two fingers, he reached over with his left hand, losing his balance and falling to the floor. As he's on the floor, he notices two things. One the stench on the fingers has been miffed, and two, his (motor) is weeping water. Now he knew that the day would come when that (motor) he was using as an ag pump would need a bit of work.

So he gets up off the now wet floor and pulls the flask out his right rear pocket. He steps out of the dilapidated shed and takes a big pull on that flask. As he stands there disappointed about the miffed fingers, he ponders on how is he gunna get that (motor) running. As the crazy water from the flask travels through his blood, he remembers that his old worthless 1968 Camero that was willed to him from his brothers passing, (died of boredom), was rotting away near the sheep.

So the good 'ol boy, now staggering, wanders over to take a peek at that (motor). He pulls the pump with his good husky socket set, and staggers toward the "shop". The shop has a torch set, and an old tire changer. The husky socket set stays in the house 'cause they're really nice.

He manages to find some thick steel and proceeds to extract two small offset pieces from it with the torch set. The two pieces are horrible looking, but he is happy with the results. He staggers back to the motor and puts the pieces on. Throughout the day he builds pulleys, welding them with coat hangers, stacks washers as shims, and uses belts cut to length and wood screwed together. He was out of the crazy water 2/3rds of the job through and was feeling tired but hopeful.

It's near dusk and he fires her up. Hot damn, we in business. The thirsty tater crop gets its water and good 'ol boy goes to bed.

The following weekend his other brother comes by to pay a visit and check on the sheep. Good 'ol boy tells him about the mishap with the (motor) and told him to take a looksie at what he had done. The brother was impressed at what was achieved and in a years time started to market them to you and others.

Hope you liked that. Stay with the stock pump and have it rebuilt with modern innards. A shop down here does it and it's really affordable. I think the guy put 440 parts in mine. It feels great, and I have a back-up. Coast about 90.00...............

 

Tuff to do if you drive a Toyota/Hyundai/Dodge/Mercury/Pontiac, etc....

What do people in Wyoming do if they have a BMW? Put a Chevy water pump on it before it goes bad?

Devils advocate here...nothing more...

 

Here's the Howard timing cover. As far as I know Howard is the only company that ever made finned timing covers for the early '51-54 Chrysler 331.

You can see from the inside pic that there's no provision for water inside the cover, making this a 'drag-only' piece. My plan is to fab an inner structure for water to circulate and keep it seperate from the timing chain cavity.

I also have the Hilborn pump drive that goes with this cover, but I didn't show it in the picture. If I can find a set of Hilborn injectors, I might build an injected 331 for the drags instead and use the cover as is.

 

I wonder if they made a cover for the "late" early Chrysler that doesn't have the extra water holes in the block?

 

I don't think that Howard did (although I suppose it's possible)....but I do know that Keith Black, Moon, and others made a finned timing cover for the '55-58 Chryslers.

 

Howdy , I've used a BBC chev on my 354 (avatar) , made the adapters , used a 392 timing cover with the lump cut out , stock BBC pulley and adapted Chev lower pulley , once painted it all looks factory , hidin' behind the blower gear....I think cost , weight saving , length reduction and reliability , would have to win hands down......Stevo

 

I guess I'm drifting off topic here...but the picture of that Howard Timing Cover got me all wet!!! For reasons unknown I have this fetish with Early Hemi timing covers. I used to grab them when they were cheap - never paid a whole lot as back then they were basically regarded as old useless race junk - those days unfortunately are long gone as recent prices have shocked me. Anyways I thought you guys might get a kick out of one of my more odd covers. Made by Donovan - not welded but cast this way - I don't know alot about them.


Bass, what is the part that is attached to where the old fuel pump used to go????

 

Looks to me like the front mount dizzy drive ?