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About Ryan's Editorial on Ford's Design Savior

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by desertdroog, May 10, 2006.

  1. desertdroog
    Joined: Nov 16, 2001
    Posts: 1,020

    desertdroog
    Member

    What? No one cares? I highly doubt that, by the looks of the numbers of Shoeboxes on this or any site, it is evident that George Walkers contribution to the automotive world is more than just custom fodder. Upon reading Ryan's musings on what made Ford stand out, even under the radar, I found the following interview with the Genius behind the Shoebox and Round tailights to that infamous Edsel Horse Collar Grill. It makes me warm and fuzzy to know that my 1954 Ford also was penned by a guy who made Tucson his home in his twilight years.

    http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Design/Walker/walkeri.htm

    Get to reading and let's get to talking!

    Nov 4, 1957 Time Magazine Cover
    [​IMG]
     
  2. PorkChop
    Joined: Jan 31, 2002
    Posts: 189

    PorkChop
    Member
    from Austin

    Wow, what an awesome read..

    especially interesting to me since I own a 49 coupe and 50 Sedan..

    thanks for the link...

    Gable
     
  3. extremist
    Joined: Feb 7, 2006
    Posts: 286

    extremist
    Member

    I'm a big fan of what these guys did when they designed the shoebox ford not only because of its styling but also because of its many post-war innovations. Attached is one of many articles I've read about the significance of this car to the Ford Motor Company.
    Two of the things I really appreciate in these cars is their modern front suspension design and the flat floors!

    http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1949/ford.html
     
  4. Well, here's the funny thing. Back in the prehistoric days of when I was in college, we studied automotive design and history. The guy mentioned in that article was never spoken of, though I see he has a part in Ford's styling. Edsel? yes, he could have been the guy at the rudder of that ship, but if we examine the trends at the time, he was looking at the company and not the specific details of car design.

    Those classes looked at the evolution of the bodyside and the differentiation of the body form to the fenders, which, up until 1946, was a body stamping that accepted fender forms. Ford did this up until 1948 and you know what those look like. There's still a bead running around the perimeters of the fenders.

    What is not commonly known is that in 1946. Let me repeat that. 1946, an Italian company named Cisitalia made a car which had the fender forms inclusive of the body forms. The rear fender maintained the "hip line" as a subtle nod to the vestigal fender stamping. This was the first maunfactured design which combined the fenders into the body while minimizing the definition between the upper glass sections and the lower body.

    Look the difference between the '46 Cisitalia and the '48 Ford, which is still very ungainly. It was a good thing Ford designed the clean body in 1949, as it was not only a departure from convention, but a vast improvement over the current (1948) car.

    IMHO, Geo Walker made a bigger change in doing this (and probably also saved untold tooling expenses) than the 32. It is surprising that he was never mentioned in those courses, but then again, the same concept was done 2 years earlier. . . .
     

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  5. extremist
    Joined: Feb 7, 2006
    Posts: 286

    extremist
    Member

    Who put the Buick venti-ports on that Italian car? :D

     
  6. As far as I cen remember, Buick portholes didn't exist until 1949. There were hints of something similar in the 1936 Plymouth, though.

    Here's a shot of the '49 Buick too. Three portholes signified a midlevel trim spec. Four portholes was the top of the line.
     

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  7. Chapulin
    Joined: May 11, 2005
    Posts: 125

    Chapulin
    Member
    from Hell Monte

    Nice Buick...is it still for sale?
     
  8. Jive-Bomber
    Joined: Aug 21, 2001
    Posts: 3,762

    Jive-Bomber
    MODERATOR

    The true King of Ford Design: E.T. "Bob" Gregorie-- Google that guy.
    He and Edsel Ford worked together to put true design into Ford, working magic all the way through the 30's and 40's... Beautiful, balanced designs that still look good today.

    The S.A.E. did a book on theor work as well:
     

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  9. swazzie
    Joined: Mar 30, 2004
    Posts: 940

    swazzie
    Member

    Thanx for this post.I have wondered for years who was resonsible for that design.This was the first design from the fifties that i ever fell in love with and I am still mesmerised by the true simplicity of it.
    I am not immersed in the automotive industry like alot of the fellas on here , although I would love to be , but am in the culinary field and have spent 20 plus years in the competitive , fine dining , garage equivilent of food service and the one thing that has always rung true for me is that the simplest designs are the hardest to acheive . That kind of success is hard won and this story is one that is quite deserving of notation. sorry if this seemed more like a rant than a response. thanx again to Ryan and Desertdroog. Hats off! swaZZie
     

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  10. DrJ
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,419

    DrJ
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  11. Mutt
    Joined: Feb 6, 2003
    Posts: 3,219

    Mutt
    Member

    In the book Ford - 1903 to 1984, there are designs shown from 1941 models that would have changed the style of Mercury and Lincoln to the slab side style in 1943. The war stopped the change.
    According to Bob Gregorie, immediately after the war Ford was frantically working to get the new designs in production, when they realized that it was a waste of money - the public would buy anything that was offered after 5 years of doing without. So they did a face lift on the '42 models and began production. Most of the other car makers, with the exception of Studebaker, did the same.
    There were a lot of dynamics that influenced auto making after the war. And I'm sure that there are different books that give credit to many different people for the same thing. But up until 1947, there was only one guy in charge of Ford. Even though Henry relinquished control to Henry II in 1945, I find it hard to believe that he didn't influence decisions after that.
    For those not familiar with the industry, designs were penned 3-5 years ahead of the production years. (And there was a lot of industrial espionage going on.)


    Mutt
     
  12. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 10,101

    50Fraud
    Member

    I've read a lot on the development of the shoebox Ford body style. One story that I've read repeatedly concerns a guy named Dick Caleal (or Calleal), who was laid off from the Studebaker group at Loewy around 1946.

    George Walker had a consulting office with ties to Ford, and had just been given the challenge of proposing a new concept for the '49 model, to replace the Gregorie team's design that Ford management had scrapped.

    Caleal interviewed with Walker, and was told to propose a solution to the Ford design challenge. Caleal recruited a bunch of his buddies from Studebaker, and built a 1/4 scale clay on his kitchen table after hours. His buddies included Bob Koto, Bob Bourke, and other designers who worked for many car companies during their careers.

    When Caleal's clay was finished, he took it to Walker, who received it enthusiastically and presented it to Ford. Caleal got the job with Walker. Reading Walker's memoirs, I see that he dismisses Caleal as a big talker and a braggart, but I've read more accounts that credit him with the original design than other versions.

    The production design, scaled up from the original 1/4 scale clay, was taller, with more crown to the hood and deck (to accommodate an upright milk can, a Henry Ford design requirement), and changed the taillights from vertical to horizontal -- but it was essentially the design done by a bunch of Studebaker designers on a kitchen table.

    Some (not all) of this story came from "A Century of Automobile Style" by Mike Lamm and Dave Holls, probably the most interesting and complete book I've come across about car design in Detroit.
     
  13. Steve M
    Joined: Jun 25, 2005
    Posts: 199

    Steve M
    Member

    I am currently reading a book on desgn myself. The book is "Art of the American Automobile" by Nick Georgano. The write up on the '49 Ford pretty much follows what '50Fraud has written above rather than Mr. Walkers account that is linked at the top of the page.
    Missing from Mr. Walkers memories is the result of the Gregorie team's work. We now know it as the '49 Mercury! It's hard to see any losers in this crowd!
     
  14. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,694

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    I have to say, I think Ryan was a bit hard on poor Edsel Ford. Without his son's influence, I doubt Henry would have allowed Gregorie as much leeway in design as he did. Edsel had some definite flair and if Henry hadn't kept such a tight rein on Edsel and driven him into an early grave ('43, with an ulcer, which is why Henry II got out of the Navy), I think we'd have seen better things from Ford earlier.
     
  15. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 10,101

    50Fraud
    Member

    I agree wholeheartedly about Edsel's positive influence. It was under his aegis that the '28, '34, '36 and '40 Fords happened, as well as the '40 Merc and the Lincoln Continental (and everything in between, of course; I'm just pointing to what I think are the highlights). I don't know that he could have done a lot better even if Henry had given him more rope!
     
  16. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    I've loved, for years, that every time I read a story about Ford post-war
    styling, that a new "savior" emerges. The shoe box design has more
    than a few claimed fathers, but than so does the Mustang.

    I don't know that Edsel, Gregorie or Walker could be tagged "Savior"
    or not, but Mayes/Ford could sure use one today.

    Swankey Devils C.C.
     

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