The Jalopy Journal

**Ryan** · 10-25-2007, 10:40 AM

I still can't stop thinking about my time at the Tardel Ranch. Every now and then, a light will flip on and I'll remember some little tid bit that Vern or Keith taught me. This one is basic a...

To read the rest of this blog entry from The Jalopy Journal, click here.

**HOTRODSURFER** · 10-25-2007, 10:48 AM

THANKS RYAN!! as a new comer to the flathead scene i still have many questions! and that was one of them-thats why i love the HAMB

Magneto349 · 10-25-2007, 11:05 AM

Sweet! Another thing to put in my flathead notebook! Thank You!

Retroharley · 10-25-2007, 11:09 AM

I never knew that. Thanks for sharing. Now I'm going to always clance at the center studs when I see a flathead engine.

skajaquada · 10-25-2007, 11:14 AM

i always thought it was the waterneck location that gave them away...?

srosa707 · 10-25-2007, 11:38 AM

Thanks for clarifying.

ROBERT JAM · 10-25-2007, 11:40 AM

Hey Ryan that is just great info.Just two days ago I was looking at a flat head and counting the studs.It will be easy now Thanks!

**Bruce Lancaster** · 10-25-2007, 11:40 AM

They came both ways on 21's...
Probable reason for change: 21 had a stud directly below centers of bores, and boring to 3 3/16 left only a scary amount of iron between stud and bore.
I think they changed the tooling in preparation for the intro of the bigger bore engines to keep tooling as common as possible between 221 and 239.

pasadenahotrod · 10-25-2007, 11:52 AM

32-36 21s had water pumps in the heads.
37-38 21s had water pumps in front of block like 38-53 24s.

That stud line is a great tip to identify the stud count. Thansk for the tip.

continentaljohn · 10-25-2007, 11:53 AM

21 stud/bolt hard to find speed parts and very expensive (Arm &Leg ) Were the 24 stud/bolt speed goodies are abundant and in a reasonable price range. The 24's also offer a much wider range of speed accessories.

**Cyclone Kevin** · 10-27-2007, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by continentaljohn

21 stud/bolt hard to find speed parts and very expensive (Arm &Leg ) Were the 24 stud/bolt speed goodies are abundant and in a reasonable price range. The 24's also offer a much wider range of speed accessories.

If there was a market that could support this type of 21 stud venture, I'd continue with it. Tooling alone is close to $11.5 K up front.
Then you still gotta get the casting done,and machine em up. Are HAMBers game to buy if I were to take this chance.
They'd be in the same price range as the Flatty Caddy's.
If you need em. Let see what we can make?

Noland · 10-27-2007, 05:59 AM

Thanks

I always wondered

continentaljohn · 10-31-2007, 11:08 AM

Kevin, I don't even see many in the cars anymore. Most seem to have been replace with modern iron. I would like to put one together in the future. Keep us in mind for some goodies...

SlamCouver · 10-25-2007, 12:32 PM

Awesome bit of info, if you remember other tricks let us know! i require tricks and tips.
thanks

Lil' Lance · 10-25-2007, 01:30 PM

thats a good way to look to tell the difference. i always before just looked at the bottom of the head. 2 bolts below the bore=24stud, 1 bolt below bore=21 stud. but cool hey either way works!

36Brua · 10-25-2007, 02:24 PM

Does it hold true a 21 stud head has 5 studs across bottom of head vs 8 on a 24 stud? xYz

VAPHEAD · 10-25-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36Brua

Does it hold true a 21 stud head has 5 studs across bottom of head vs 8 on a 24 stud? xYz

That's how I tell at a glance.
and the 5 are wide spaced,can spot it across the parking lot.

**73roundlight** · 10-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Very interesting.

Just wanted to throw in another interesting flattie into the mix. This is an aircooled prototype that is in Speedy Bill's museum (that place is worthy of its own feature sometime).

Thanks for the info Ryan.

Rand Man · 10-25-2007, 03:09 PM

. . . waterneck location that gave them away...?

No the 59A series (center) and the later 8BA series (front water neck) both have 24 studs (or bolt holes).

synthsis · 10-26-2007, 10:55 AM

just more info for me to absorb. thanks for the write-up!

10-25-2007, 10:40 AM	#1
Ryan Administrator Join Date: Jan 1995 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 13,688	Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud I still can't stop thinking about my time at the Tardel Ranch. Every now and then, a light will flip on and I'll remember some little tid bit that Vern or Keith taught me. This one is basic a... To read the rest of this blog entry from The Jalopy Journal, click here.

10-25-2007, 10:48 AM	#2
HOTRODSURFER Alliance Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: HATBORO,PA Posts: 5,519	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud THANKS RYAN!! as a new comer to the flathead scene i still have many questions! and that was one of them-thats why i love the HAMB __________________ HOILER AUTO REPAIR est 1918 http://www.pantera-electronics.com/

10-25-2007, 11:05 AM	#3
Magneto349 FNG Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Buhl, Idaho Posts: 25	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Sweet! Another thing to put in my flathead notebook! Thank You! __________________ "Beware of well meaning but uninformed friends." Magneto349

10-25-2007, 11:09 AM	#4
Retroharley Grenade Inspector Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 123	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud I never knew that. Thanks for sharing. Now I'm going to always clance at the center studs when I see a flathead engine.

10-25-2007, 11:14 AM	#5
skajaquada Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: SLC Utard Posts: 1,646	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud i always thought it was the waterneck location that gave them away...? __________________ Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

10-25-2007, 11:38 AM	#6
srosa707 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orcutt--via NOR*CAL Posts: 1,562	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Thanks for clarifying.

10-25-2007, 11:40 AM	#7
ROBERT JAM Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: RED LODGE MT 59068 Posts: 665	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Hey Ryan that is just great info.Just two days ago I was looking at a flat head and counting the studs.It will be easy now Thanks! __________________ Hot rods are driven!! 32 ford (hemi power),28 roadster (flathead power)

10-25-2007, 11:40 AM	#8
Bruce Lancaster Alliance Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Madison NJ USA Posts: 18,366	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud They came both ways on 21's... Probable reason for change: 21 had a stud directly below centers of bores, and boring to 3 3/16 left only a scary amount of iron between stud and bore. I think they changed the tooling in preparation for the intro of the bigger bore engines to keep tooling as common as possible between 221 and 239. __________________ Bruce

10-25-2007, 11:52 AM	#9
pasadenahotrod Old School HAMBer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 11,265	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud 32-36 21s had water pumps in the heads. 37-38 21s had water pumps in front of block like 38-53 24s. That stud line is a great tip to identify the stud count. Thansk for the tip.

10-25-2007, 11:53 AM	#10
continentaljohn Old School HAMBer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: chicagoland Posts: 3,255	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud 21 stud/bolt hard to find speed parts and very expensive (Arm &Leg ) Were the 24 stud/bolt speed goodies are abundant and in a reasonable price range. The 24's also offer a much wider range of speed accessories. __________________ Wanted 1932 Ford Roadster Parts doors cowl anything Please parts

10-27-2007, 05:59 AM	#12
Noland Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: pittsburgh PA Posts: 1,143	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Thanks I always wondered __________________ RUSTY hemi Model A Coupe build http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=647364

10-31-2007, 11:08 AM	#13
continentaljohn Old School HAMBer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: chicagoland Posts: 3,255	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Kevin, I don't even see many in the cars anymore. Most seem to have been replace with modern iron. I would like to put one together in the future. Keep us in mind for some goodies... __________________ Wanted 1932 Ford Roadster Parts doors cowl anything Please parts

10-25-2007, 12:32 PM	#14
SlamCouver Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Brazil, IL Posts: 2,012	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Awesome bit of info, if you remember other tricks let us know! i require tricks and tips. thanks __________________ C YA

10-25-2007, 01:30 PM	#15
Lil' Lance Grenade Inspector Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 99	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud thats a good way to look to tell the difference. i always before just looked at the bottom of the head. 2 bolts below the bore=24stud, 1 bolt below bore=21 stud. but cool hey either way works! __________________ If You're Not Dreaming, You're Not Living!

10-25-2007, 02:24 PM	#16
36Brua Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: San Mateo, Ca Posts: 88	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Does it hold true a 21 stud head has 5 studs across bottom of head vs 8 on a 24 stud? xYz

10-26-2007, 10:32 AM	#18
73roundlight Alliance Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Far, Far, Away Hills, Jersey Posts: 1,122	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud Very interesting. Just wanted to throw in another interesting flattie into the mix. This is an aircooled prototype that is in Speedy Bill's museum (that place is worthy of its own feature sometime). Thanks for the info Ryan. Attached Thumbnails __________________ —MRAK Keep Moving Forward — W.Disney

10-25-2007, 03:09 PM	#19
Rand Man Old School HAMBer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rogers, Arkansas Posts: 2,624	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud . . . waterneck location that gave them away...? No the 59A series (center) and the later 8BA series (front water neck) both have 24 studs (or bolt holes). __________________ She's wearin' new colors and runnin' pretty good I got four hundred horses tucked under the hood.

10-26-2007, 10:55 AM	#20
synthsis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: south jersey Posts: 1,920	Re: Flatheads 101: 21 Vs. 24-Stud just more info for me to absorb. thanks for the write-up! __________________ flickr I'm unemployed, read about my shenanigans here: http://newfoundfreetime.blogspot.com/

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