Finally got the drivetrain I've bben looking for. Y BLOCK! Now, some trans questions. I have a 700r but the adapter is $600. I have some bits and pieces of info about a FMX bolting up with some small work. FMX is readilly available - I can get 2 now. I know the advantages of the overdrive but I will go that route with drivetrain 2. Drivetrain 1 is either the 57 272 with big valve heads or a 292 with those same heads on top. I will have 2 stock 3 speeds with bellhousings and clutch parts available when I get through this. HINT HINT 1 car (ranchero) and 1 truck. So what are the suggestions Y blockians? I really want to go inexpensive (notice i did not say cheap) to get me rolling then swap in the better built motor with O/D in a bit. Talk to me
A lot of guys run T-5s, that's what I have in my F-100, easy swap if you get a truck three speed bell and a '86 - '93 Mustang/T-bird trans. I don't recamend the s-10 tranny unless you are using it for parts to move the shifter forward.
Where does the shifter end up with this set-up? I have one I've been considering for my '54 and it looks like it would end up almost under the seat. Conor
If you use an FMX you drill two new lower holes in the bellhousing and bolt it up. The FMX input and front pump are the same from memory. The hard part is finding a auto flex plate, but that may just be in Australia.
Using a Mustang/F-Body T5 like pictured, the shifter is at the rear. The S-10 T5 shifter is almost dead center of the transmission. You can put the S-10 Tail housing and Top cover on the Mustang/F-Body Transmission with a few modifications for it to work properly. S-10 T5's usually have weaker syncros and undesirable gear ratios. Always try to find a WORLD CLASS T5 Transmission to use, as they have the better ratios/syncros. Google "T5 Transmission" and you'll find alot of information regarding identification, conversions, modifications, gear ratios, etc.
ooops sorry, I didn't see that you had a pickup before I posted. Toploader behind the 292 in my '56 Fairlane: Fitment of shifter inside:
............................................................................................................. Maybe if you are lucky you will be an "old people " someday too, He,He.
A lot of great set-ups! However, most of them involve either buying an adapter (which if im going to buy one i would just put the 700r in now) or using a manual. I would prefer to go automatic with this car. Plus as i mentioned i have access to a few of them now whereas I would have to buy the manual trans. Nobody else familiar with the FMX swap?
If you have an old three speed, run it for now. Once you drive any distance with an overdrive, you will never go back. I love my five speed, I have a T3550 behind a 312 in a 55 sedan. No, it was not cheap. But the SROD four speed OD it replaced has ratios that are really terrible.
Not exactly, but you're on the right track. To do the FMX swap, you first have to start with a Y block Ford-O-Matic- the correct version for the vehicle with either the car bellhousing or the truck bell with its side mounts. '54-mid '56 are air-cooled, and mid-'56-'64 are "water-cooled", meaning that there is an actual transmission cooler. On the early truck water-cooled setups, the trans cooler is actually mounted back by the bell, and water hoses go back to it. Anyway. It's best to start with a complete setup, rather than trying to find pieces; the reason why becomes clear later below. As mentioned, you will need to drill two new holes; it's self-evident where & how, once you have all the pieces. That's the easy part. The Ford-O-Matic front pump is driven by two stamped "ears" on the converter hub. These have been known to break off. The FMX front pump is driven by two notches in the hub itself, just like most automatics we're familiar with. In addition, the front indexing pilots of the converters (the part that rides in the crankshaft flange) are different diameters for the FMX and the Ford-O-Matic. There are three solutions for this: 1) Use the Ford-O-Matic converter and front pump. The pump bolts directly into the FMX with no mods. If you go this route- INSPECT THE EARS/TANGS ON THE CONVERTER FOR CRACKS AND THE FRONT PUMP FOR CRACKS AND WEAR. It would really be best to start with a rebuilt converter anyway, because you're working with 50 year old parts which have had unspeakable atrocities done to them in the past... There are differing viewpoints on the strength of these "ears", but for a mild street engine they seem to hold up alright- if they aren't cracked. 2) Use the FMX converter and front pump. In this case, you will have to make up a ring/bushing to fit over the converter snout, so it is piloted correctly in the Y crank flange. Any machine shop can do this. Depending on the converter, you may have to drill new holes in the flexplate...correctly centered and indexed, of course. 3) Have a custom converter made that has the FMX hub drive, but the older large diameter pilot. Obviously this is more expensive, but if you wanted to change stall speeds it's the way to go. For a moderate street converter the cost isn't horrible. Now it can be seen why it's easiest to start with an entire Ford-O-Matic setup, rather than piece it together; depending on what you choose to do, you may be using just the bell and flexplate, or the converter and front pump as well. If you elect to use the Ford-O converter, I would probably look for a later setup rather than the '54-'57 parts, with their weird flexplates, flanges, and bolt-together converters, but it can all be made to work as long as you don't mix and match parts. In other words, get a complete unit....or use the correct bell, a late flexplate, and the FMX converter & pump. Shifter details, mounting, and driveshafts all vary from car to car... I've done this swap a couple of times before, and, quite honestly, I'd suggest going to a C4 with the Flat-O Products kit, or switching to an AOD- or a 200-4R if cross-breeding doesn't scare you. Some of this stuff is getting hard to find; the FMX is heavy, and nowadays a lot of trans guys are unfamiliar with it; and the choices for shifters, converters, and shift kits are limited. If you get lucky, it's a cheap swap, but for the most part, if you have to search out and buy all of this stuff, it takes a lot of time and/or money. It is possible to internally convert a Ford-O-Matic (one that is already a 3-speed) to become a FMX, with a great deal of work, but it's certainly no easier....and you will need to scrounge a FMX for parts. At the risk of being a dick- I won't describe how to do it any more. It's a ton of typing, and at the end of it, invariably the person "who really, really wants to know"...says, quietly, "Oh. I think I'll, um, just figure out something else."
How about an old 3 speed overdrive?? plenty strong if you dont drive like drag racer. The stronger ones can be found behind early FE's
I did the FMX conversion as described by Homespun. By the time I was done, I had as much $$$ in it as if I woulda just bought a C4 and an adapter. Ditch the FMX idea and go with a C4 or manual.
I looked at both options for quite awhile, it came down to... after spending what you HAVE to for the FMX to be done correctly you still have an oddball trans that will be hard to find someone to rebuild later. I went with the Wilcap adapter. The chev adapter allows you to run any of the chev auto trans, th350, th400, 700r4 all with the same adapter. The Ford C4 adapter only works with the C4, the FORD AOD adapter was different.
Thank you all for the input. Homespun - big time. I supposethat considering that I have the 700r on the floor and I would like to end up with that the purchase of the adapter is going to have to be made sooner than later. I had read that the FMX was "relatively" bolt up if prooper tools and skills were to be had, which I have.... but it looks as if I'll go the other way. HAMB = GOOD. So now that I have all of your Y brains "on" the 57 heads I have (ECZ-G) look to be the good ones because of the bigger valves... true? Can I make a front sump motor into a rear sump? my 2 blocks are ECG and B9AE, 272 and 292 respectively. I am hoping to put the early heads on the bigger block... any problems? Any of you Y guys need 3 speed trannys? 1 truck and 1 car (will have to check if O/D). complete with bell, clutch, flywheel....
This is the exact set up that i just put in my F100. I cut the stock shifter off of my farmer four trans, flipped it around and it clears perfect.
The FMX is still a good swap under certain conditions- for example, if you have free access to a good salvage yard, or, if you have lots of time to scrounge things for a good price, over years. If you have to buy all this stuff, and pay to rebuild the FMX, it quickly loses its appeal. Moving on- the 700R4 is a good transmission. IMHO it's a bit overkill for a Y block (though I know of at least two people who have installed C6s behind more-or-less stock Y blocks, and if that isn't overkill I don't know what is (shrugs)). The 200-4R is smaller and sometimes is easier to fit into tight transmission tunnels. Unless I missed it somewhere, what vehicle is this going into? As Tim & others can tell you, the vaunted ECZ-G heads may, or may not, offer advantages. They do have larger valves than some other Y heads, true; in unported form they really don't flow any better than many other Y heads. Their advantage "as they are" comes from the fact that their combustion chamber is smaller than nearly all other Y block heads, thus raising compression (compared to those other heads). You can certainly use them on your 272 or 292 block without problems. If you go to all the effort of fully reworking them- new valves, guides, etc., I'd consider letting an experienced porter do some work to them. Mummert is in CA, or you might check with Tim. If you plan to have a basic rebuild, truthfully, I'd save them for another project and use another head like the ECZ-C. You can use any of the rear sump pans on your engine(s). Be aware that there are at least two different rear sump truck pans; one has a very shallow front, which tapers down (sort of) to the rear sump, and it has a tendency to allow oil to move away from the pickup during deceleration. Add a simple baffle to keep the oil from flowing forward, or scrounge the other pan which has a deeper sump.
I will have to check the casting numbers on the heads out of the 292 B9AE and maybe i will use those instead. The only reason I will use a 700r is because I have a good one on the floor of the garage. I hope I haven't burned up Tim's patience already with questions and he'll be able to help with head work and other motor stuff. This is all goin in a 50 shoebox and although the motor to get me started will be a bit tame I plan on hopping up the spare.
I would have to say that I agree with everything that Homespun has said, (he always beats me to the punch and seems to like to type more ) If your B9AE block has the small valve truck heads (C0AE, C1TE) these can be made to use the 1.78" intakes and respond well to a little bowl work, this will make them work just as well as the ECZ-C heads that were suggested earlier. Now that Chris (Dullchrome) has chimmed in you two may want get your heads together, he is a Y-Guy, he also has a '50 Shoebox and you guys are relatively close to each other. He also has my # if you want to call.
Ya Dullchrome was in my garage the other night and this is all his fault.... thanks Chris! I was set to go with a 8BA / T10 set up with an offy 2x2 bolted in the frame!!!! But, to be honest it's not exactly what I wanted more like what fell into my lap. Now, a buddy got a 27 coupe and wants ther flatty set up and I am gettin my Y on!
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