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Technical Y block ingnition woes, need some help.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by A_Burly_Wind, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Alright guys trying to get my 55 fairlane sea worthy, its sat for 5 years before i got it and after a new battery it turns over but no spark. Now i know the early Y block distributors are garbage so im going to pick up a late one this afternoon and ditch the vacuum advance junk. As well as stick a "B" manifold on it i had laying around. Now heres my issue, the car is 6v. And pertronix doesnt have a ignition kit for a late Y block dizzy in 6v, obviously since the 56 up cars were 12v. So what can i do? Id rather not swap thw car to 12v, im stubborn and 6v will be fine for a weekend driver. Can i run a 12v pertronix ignition unit and it still work and just use one of their 6v flame thrower coils? Is there another ignition option besides pertronix that would be better than the points and work?
     
  2. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 486

    egads
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What's wrong with points? More reliable than most anything else. Weekend driver you will probably never wear them out.
     
    warbird1, porknbeaner and dana barlow like this.
  3. Well the points are shot now so yea i could replace it but why not improve it if possible?
     
  4. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,448

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I hope you meant you went not dumping the vacuum advance from the new distibutor. I also would run it with the stock points and carry an additional condenser or 2. The new ones maybe just fine on 6 volts since they are not on 12. (Chinese) . Vintage original 6 volt condensers show up on EBay all the time, I have then for my Indian MC but one has never gone bad. My stock points Y started and ran perfect until the condenser problem showed up..
     
    egads likes this.
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  5. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,282

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    If it has sat for a long while try cleaning the skunge off the contact points. A crisp, new dollar bill ($10 bill for California and Alaska) soaked in carb cleaner or lighter fluid, drug through them while closed should work.

    Don't replace the condenser with anything made this century. If you get a nice fat blue spark leave it alone.

    Believe it or not if everything is tuned up right it should run fine. I've read a lot of problems associated with load-o-matic distributors. Bubba though, seems to like 'em - maybe have to rethink this!
     
    biggeorge, 46international and egads like this.
  6. Ill have to use a later dizzy for the later manifold im putting on it anyhow. Im not opposed to keeping it points but i was just hoping for a solution for using pertronix or something along that lines and staying a 6v system
     
  7. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,144

    sunbeam
    Member

    When you get the new distributor check the cam in the distributor against the old one if they are the same you could redrill the pickup mount holes in the distributor and use a 55 unit.
     
    A_Burly_Wind likes this.
  8. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,448

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thinking about it I agree with sunbeam. There is no reason a 55 6volt unit from Pertronix would not work as long as the mag pickup has the right gap. The weights in the bottom of the 57-up will take care of the centrifugal advance and the vacuum can fed from the new carb will handle the plate advance. Good luck.
     
    A_Burly_Wind likes this.
  9. Ill go ahead and gtab the petronix and see what happens. I was thinking it shouldnt matter as well but thought id ask if anyone here had done the same as i had intended
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 25,211

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have to agree with him. Buying a new set of points and condenser runs around 10 bucks. That is a ten buck bet that it will run when you try to fire it up rather than spending ???$ for a different distributor and then spending $$ for the electronic kit to convert it and then possibly still finding out it won't run because of other issues. It just flat ass does not makes sense to spend a lot of money on something until you know it is going to work.
     
    biggeorge and egads like this.
  11. tom in nh
    Joined: Oct 16, 2011
    Posts: 61

    tom in nh
    Member

    Make sure your 6 volt generator is up to snuff.
    Some funky things happen when not enough juice is flowing.
    My opinion only: stick with points.
    Worked for 60 plus years, will work for 60 more...
    Good luck,
    Tom
     
  12. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,282

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Nobody sells new manufacture points and condenser these days for 10 bucks that are any good. No way, not a chance. NOS is the only way to go, basically.
     
    Nailhead Jason likes this.
  13. Generator is good, battery is brand new and is a commercial from napa with 800 cranking amps. Spark is dead so guess i can replace points and see what happens but if i do install the B manifold i will have to swap the dizzy anyhow

    Sent from my LGLS775 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  14. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,144

    sunbeam
    Member

    If the magnet piece will fit the cam is the main thing. The points on the 55 are in a straight line and the 57 make a S curve when drilling just get the air gap right timing location can be adjusted buy turning the distributor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    A_Burly_Wind likes this.
  15. Years ago I tried the 6V Pertronix on my '54 that had a 239 y-block. It was junk and soured me on Pertronix forever even though they are said to have been improved...
     
  16. Make sure the coil wire is good. Did you try a hot wire straight to the coil from the battery?
     
  17. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 78

    Glenn Thoreson
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Did you test the coil? The ignition switch? That distributor should out live us all.
     
  18. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,282

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Did you try cleaning the points? You allowed that "it sat for 5 years". Very common problem.
     
  19. Previous owner let it sit, i just got the car a few weeks ago. Im replacing everything that needs to be replaced plugs, wires, coil even though its appearing to be fine im going to put new stuff on it because i dont want to get stranded on a long trip. Im 98% sure its the points being bad but my main question for this thread was if a 12v pertronix in a late y block distributor would work with the car being 6v, seems like no one really understood my main thought on that.
     
  20. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,282

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    I understand exactly what you're saying, it's a good plan in theory. Problem is, especially when it comes to Ignition parts, there is a lot of shit out there. You may be replacing good, solid old school stuff with defective and substandard parts. This is very well known in the collector car and vintage hot rod circles with both points, and especially, condensers.

    Next thing, I'm not sure if a post '56 distributor is a drop in replacement for your motor is it? Something about the cam gear being different, or maybe it's the oil pump rod?

    The '57 and later is 1/4" hex drive. Is that what's in there now? Keeping it POS ground, 6 volts will need a lot of preventive maintenance involved. Minimum 00 gauge battery and start cables. A big ass battery is required too, with lots of reserve capacity. Everybody looks at CCA and ignores this. Remember generators don't charge at idle, or not much. When the cutout is in the entire electrical system depends solely on the battery, it will get smoked in a hurry if it doesn't have enough capacity and/or the charging system isn't up to snuff, and that's a whole nuther nutroll in itself.

    Don't get ahead of yourself here. You've got a LOT of things to get squared away before you're ready for the Mother Road. In my opinion. Get it running first (with points and current distributor) before spending a lot of coin. Have you done a compression test yet? How about rolling it over with a breaker bar and watching the valves? Adjusted the lash? See where I'm goin' with that?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    egads likes this.
  21. Yup conpression is good across the board. The car has 35k miles on it all original everything. The engine itself is in perfect condition. Everything on the car is except this ignition issue and the brakes need attention but thats another project im in the middle of as well. The distributor should swap over, if it isnt the hex type input then i can change the oil pump. Im pretty good with Y blocks but have never messed with one that was pre 57 and 6v till now. Im not opposed to putting points in it and going down the road, but ive heard good stuff from guys running pertronix (and bad) but was more just looking into if that option would work or wasnt worth an extra hassle.

    Sent from my LGLS775 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  22. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,282

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Call Pertronix they have a good help desk. See what they say. Have read they had problems with the 6 volt version of their Ignitor module. If you upgrade to a post '56 distributor it helps to limit the internal distributor advance to around 20 crankshaft degrees. With rebuild distributors you can get anything, they used that distributor type from '57 to '73 so the advance can be all buggered up. Another problem I'm hearing lately, all the Y block cores must have dried up again, the usual rebuilder suspects are now sending out the wrong distributors. Wrong as in the dimension from the mounting base to gear is not correct. This is something to check.

    edit: Manual sez Dimensions for 292 V8 are 4.991 - 4.996 (Inches) Distance From Bottom of Mounting Flange to Bottom of Gear.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    A_Burly_Wind likes this.
  23. Will give them a shout tomorrow and see what they have to say.

    For buying rebuild parts for the distributor thats in it now, wheres my best chance of not buying chinese garbage? Napa? I really would like to get the car where i can enjoy it as soon as possible
     
  24. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,282

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Best bet is to find actual Ford part numbers, out of the book. Castings themselves have engineering numbers, not quite the same. Then you can search the 'net for NOS or maybe NORS. Green Sales, C&G Ford Parts, Nospartsltd.com, etc. eBay too, sometimes has good stuff, otherwise hard to find.
     
    A_Burly_Wind likes this.
  25. Looking now for some NOS stuff. I will most likely grab a set from napa today just to get it going until some fomoco ones are found. Tried calling pertronix but got stuck on hold and had to get to work so no luck there yet
     
  26. Why? I have had both the A and B manifold on my Y block and don't know what would make you change the distributer. is it something with the older distributer?
     
  27. The late distributor is dual advance, both vacuum and mechanical. So its more efficient. And if using a carb like an edelbrock like I have I've read you really need to swap to the later for better tuning and such. You can use the early style but the later is better. Ive read alot on it on the yblocksforever forum but posting activity there is really slow and sometimes not at all on some pages, usually i come here with my questions since theres so much traffic and helpful folks.
     
    46international likes this.
  28. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,448

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A_Burly....The yblocksforever forum is one of the best. I cannot understand your displeasure with it. It has saved me countess hours in repairs and I have shared a lot I have learned too. The distributor change out on Loadmatic units 1956-back has been discussed many times along with carb changes.
    I have made the change of the loadmatic to later model with the early style intake and using a Carter small base WCFB and then to dual quads. I've also replace the point with a Pertronix but did not work with 6 volts as mine is a 12 volt car..
    I see no reason not to try the 6 volt Pertronix in the 57 up distributor as long as the air gap is correct and a later carb change an "B" manifold if you like. remember the electric chokes are all 12 volt so your on your own there.
    This is Hot Rodding...Not going to Super Shops and doing a "bolt on chrome dohickey".
     
    A_Burly_Wind likes this.
  29. I love the site itself tons of info, just not alot of folks on there talking as there is here I guess is what I was at. Im trying to find info on using a 6v pertronix in the loadmatic distributor but havent seen much on that. The more i look into it the more i suppose i will just leave it as stock as possible for now, Ive got a set of points and condenser on hold for me at napa so ima stick those in there till a real deal sets found.
     
    46international likes this.
  30. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,144

    sunbeam
    Member

    1954 was the odd ball year for the gear and oil pump drive
     
    warbird1 likes this.

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