Poke my eyes out! I've seen it all! What a cool car! I'd love to see this car in person. I love cars like this. Thanks for sharing.
I agree about the external steel fittings - but would they themselves be bolted to the frame (but spreading the load over a larger area) or just clamped around it? That aero-engined speedster we are all admiring on this thread seems to have some of each. The blacksmithing part sounds like fun.
I love GN's (the single headlight chaindrive car pictured), and have often thought about a wood framed car asa one off early special. I am a woodworker/timberframer by trade and would use pattern grade mahogony or purpleheart (amaranth). Both straight grained, stable, weather resistant and get harder with age.
Those are all good points. Yes, I am thinking about this, mostly as a thought experiment at this time, but maybe.....however, some caveats about my plans: It would probably be for a Doodlebug that would see maybe 15 mph tops in smooth-surfaced yard duty. Depending on the results this vehicle (same engine, front and rear axles) could be morphed into a vintage-themed Speedster that, again, would see very moderate duty. Now let's think about failure modes. Start from here: let's say that someone was to make a tube frame out of PVC pipe from the hardware store (I would never do this! Bear with me a moment as I am trying to make a point.). Let's say that this person made the most perfect joints and assembled the frame with the best PVC technique possible. You could end up with a vehicle that could support its weight just sitting there. OK, now let's say you started it up and drove at, say, 2 mph on a perfectly smooth surface with no jack-rabbit starts or panic stops. So far, so good, maybe. I'd bet you would see some flex. Now let's say you had some nutty test driver driving this contraption, and he starts going faster and faster, over increasingly rougher road. What would happen? Well, I imagine that at some point, and most likely without warning, some piece of that silly frame would fail catastrophically. Now, let's build another frame out of wood, with the frame rails wooden beams and steel cross members. Let's imagine for the sake of analysis that the attachment of those cross members to the frame rails is reasonably done. Let's take that same test drive: At rest, no problem. Slow speed and smooth: no problem. Bumpier: we don't know. Faster: well, I would want to go bumpier at a slower speed with solid inspections before going faster. Would the wooden frame fail catastrophically? Probably not. I would expect that the first thing you would see was creeping or other movement of the attachment points: crossmembers and what-not. Since this thing was not designed for ultimate light weight, the rails should be more than up to the task and the weak links somewhere else. Based on this type of approach, it should be feasible to just see what happens. Starting with a Doodlebug lets me easily see the all the parts and get familiar with the behavior before committing to some 85 mph cruise over a washboard road. LOL. Not too concerned about the cost, in fact for me cheaper, since I have the wood already and I don't have the steel. If this is a massive FAIL, then I still can use the wood to heat my shop or repair my deck. LOL. It is also different, and I like different, not just boxing some Model A rails as has been done a million times before. BTW the motor I am thinking about is a MoPar flathead six, maybe 90 hp on a good day, with the motor/tranny stressed. I have a unit from a pick-up that has rear motor mounts right at the sides of the bellhousing, perfect for mounting to flat plates that in turn could be fastened to the sides of the wooden frame rails. Early Ford front and banjo axles and probably using the stock Ford buggy-spring layout without splitting the wishbones. Picture of the bellhousing:
Maybe we need to talk. Timberframe-type joints, with plenty of intersecting surface area for the 'right' adhesive to grab onto (whatever that is) would be ideal for any wood-to-wood joints, perhaps for crossmembers that do not support the front or rear axles.
I was also wondering about locust. The saying around here is that a locust fence post will last one year longer than one made of stone.
Hey, drop an engine in one of those carriages and you'd have a cool rod! There is a nice carriage museum I visited once and the lines, stance and rake of some of those early closed carriages are just amazing. Some pix:
If you can manage the art of joining and reinforcing wood without adhesives, as early massive boat builders did or like Japanese temples that still stand, you are on to a good start.
This may be true, but I have no experience with locust. I only like to comment on what I KNOW is true. -Adam
I work in the Brittish timber framing tradition and am a novice fan of the Japenese timber frame tradition. I would suspect that this application would require few or no wood joints but may require steel bracketry. I have no experience but tons of interest in wood framed cars.
Supply is limited, no locust forests, also I believe they have a lot of pitch pockets, as hedge do also. Most of the hedge rows in Kansas/Arkasas, have been destroyed. Good hardwood, otherwise, with a lot of pitch pockets in the long dimensions require a lot of laminating. Hickory in any quantity is virtually impossible to get also.
Funny you mention that. A good friend of mine became a full-time woodworker 'bout 30 years ago. His specialty is creating the intricate Japanese wood joints. These joints are amazingly complex, demand precision - and he cuts them by eye. Amazing. Everything fits together with no fasteners or glue, and once assembled, that's it. He made me a table and you almost can't see the joint lines where the legs attach to the top.
Around here I can get locust no problem. Also, since I'd only need like two lengths a dozen feet long, should be rather easy to find something usable. First time out, I might use something like Doug Fir. Again, just for experimentation. The steel fittings could always be transferred to something else if this idea has any legs. Would seem correct, though, to begin with something simple and cheap just to get the feel for it.
Isn't that amazing? European traditional woodworkers have so much pride for obvious historical reasons. A Japanese friend of mine told me how they come in bus loads and spend a very long time there studying that ancient artform. They have different tools and techniques that are sometimes opposed to what we know and use all the time.
How about a trailer? I bought this one several years back. Hauled it out of the mountains. The tung was a true 4x4 in 4"x4". I did restore it and build a steel frame so I could tow it at 70 mph. Still have it to.
It's a non-HAMB car, but there's a guy building a modern sports car out of wood: http://www.joeharmondesign.com/ "The Splinter concept was developed by Joe Harmon for his graduate project at the Industrial Design Course - North Carolina State University. The main idea is to build a high-performance, mid-engined supercar from wood composites, using wood whereever possible, including the chassis, body, and large percentages of the suspension components and wheels. The car has a target weight of 2500lbs and a power goal of over 600 horsepower delivered by a turbocharged 4.6 liters V8 unit." His construction blog is here: http://joeharmon.blogspot.com/
Aren't baseball bats made of hickory? If we are talking about laminating, then at least there is a source. All very true. Check out Guegeon(sp?) Brothers boat building processes using resins. My thoughts are that if you are through drilling a piece of lumber, sleeving the hole and bonding it in place with resin, then you are providing a "continuation" of the load path. At the very least, I think it would be the equivalent of stop drilling a crack. Mike Bynum
My ins. man has a 1908 Brush, and it has a wood frame, it was his grandfathers. At the America on Wheels muesum in Allentown Pa. they have car make here with a wood frame from the early 1900s.
No way, sir...you are definitely NOT alone in appreciating this car. Ever since I first gawked in lust at this beautiful machine, the soul has been vexed in the most contrived ways. She is like that older woman you desired at 17 years of age, the one who KNEW FULL WELL that her seemingly innocent "leg shot," and just moving certain ways in your presence would cause fits of adolescent lust for her...she fed off it, like thie car feeds off what it does to me. I cannot have her for my own, so a frankenjap racer must be created.. I have some hicory trees at my place that need cutting down before they fall on a house. Could be a beginning...either of a great car... ...or a great bbq. My vote is for the car
man those guys just didn't know any better...wood frame and that big ol gas tank just waiting for someone to plow into it. But it is cool...
I've build a few cars and quite a few stressed wood projects, from chairs (lot's of load and shock) to guitars (string pressure anyone).. and I don't think this is as hard as some of you think. Laminated rails and cross members, connected with bolts through sleeved and resined in holes will be plenty strong enough. The rails can be any shape you want, just make sure you have a good template. Cut a lot of very thing (1/8") pieces in the shape of the rail in the horizontal direction (shape looking from top down) then clamp and epoxy them to an existing framerail or buck to get the required shape looking from the side. Should be very strong, fast to make and require lot's of wood and time. Clamp everything together with a vacuum pump/bag and you are good to go. The epoxy will help resist rot, decay, water and oil.. shouldn't be that hard.. anyone want to make some here around Dallas?
My modern O/T car has a balsa wood / composit floor pan. So I guess wood is still in limited use in the industry.
I can't stand this anymore. These worked well untill more power was added From Wikipedia: MARCOS In 1961 the brothers Dennis Adams and Peter Adams started working with Marcos and they introduced a number of changes to the original design, so the Marcos Luton Gullwing was introduced in November 1961 and the Spyder, immediately transformed to the Marcos Fastback GT , was displayed at the London Racing Car Show in 1963. The chassis were glued of mainly 3 mm thin sheets of marine plywood, giving the cars a very strong monocoque and unbeatable low total weight (internationally homologated with 475 kg), resulting in a great performance in sportscar competition. Totally 39 cars were produced of these early Marcos models and nearly all of them were used for national and international racing purpose.
Thing I forgot to mention, the wood pieces wouldn't have to be the length of the frame, overlapping will work fine (a lot of overlapping) and a long grain, light weight hardwood would probably work best, I think Balsa will be the best but cedar would work as well. If anyone has a load of cedar shingles they may be a good start.
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