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Hot Rods Will this motor mount survive?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gordon Reed, Feb 23, 2021 at 1:59 AM.

  1. Gordon Reed
    Joined: Aug 3, 2019
    Posts: 49

    Gordon Reed

    63575072298__9C209ADB-9C6F-4E0A-B593-5801FE88C9DE.JPG

    sbc motor mount i had came up with to get the trans and motor angle in line with the pinion. i know it’s extreme but just curious if it will work. poly tube with steel sleeve inside. won’t be making crazy power probably only 400 or so hp.


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  2. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 733

    Mimilan
    Member

    The Engine and Trans doesn't need to be in line with the pinion. Just parallel with the pinion.
     
  3. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,462

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Pinion angle has been covered many times, centreline of engine / transmission must be parallel to centreline of frame/pinion. Eg 4WDs have offset front/rear pinions. Insofar as your mounts, why so high and what frame is engine installed in, Model A? It seems that you could have interference issues with body, firewall, transmission tunnel and foot well areas if mounted that high? Also why not use conventional biscuit mounts, I envisage issues with that mount?
    Pinion.jpg ap2.jpg
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  4. IMO the biscuit needs to be at least 2/3 shorter or you're going to get too much movement....
     

  5. Gordon Reed
    Joined: Aug 3, 2019
    Posts: 49

    Gordon Reed

    i currently have about 5 degrees of positive angle (towards the sky) in the differential. if i have the engine and trans coming down at 5 degrees that is what i’m shooting for right?


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  6. Gordon Reed
    Joined: Aug 3, 2019
    Posts: 49

    Gordon Reed

    yes installed on a model a frame. this is my first build so pinion angles are hard for me to get a grasp of when trying to figure it out hands on. but like i said in my other response. i have about 5 degrees positive angle from the rear end, if i have the engine and trans angled down 5 degrees i should be on the right track right?


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  7. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,147

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    It's perhaps worthwhile to clarify terms. It's not quite clear what you mean by "positive angle" or "up" or "down" if we don't know what you're comparing them to. If the yoke end of the pinion axis is higher than the pumpkin end of the pinion axis, that means that you want the pulley end of the crankshaft axis to be higher than the flywheel end of the crankshaft axis, and at the same angle — within a tolerance of what? half a degree? The two axes don't need to be in the same line, though: just substantially parallel.

    I assume you know about yoke phasing. There is a way to do it with the rearend angled opposite to the engine, but it's risky on a live axle and easy to get wrong if you're not entirely clear about the geometry.
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  8. Gordon Reed
    Joined: Aug 3, 2019
    Posts: 49

    Gordon Reed

    let me add that the transmission is a bit higher than where the rear end is. this is why i gave the rear end a bit more positive angle than i saw which was around 3 degrees.


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  9. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,147

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Don't worry about running a small angle in the U-joints all the time. In fact they need a bit of working angle.
     
  10. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,147

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    This is off the Mark Williams website:
    [​IMG]
    Note the way the U-joints are phased. The article itself is a bit technical, but perhaps worth a look.
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  11. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,147

    Ned Ludd
    Member

  12. I cannot comprehend why the engine mount is so far above the frame rail.
    Or the whole engine for that matter.
    Why?
     
    triumph 1, 1971BB427, RICH B and 2 others like this.
  13. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,676

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    What are you using for rear suspension? If leaf springs they make shims to adjust the angle, might allow you to lower engine to a more normal setting.
     
  14. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,231

    Budget36
    Member

    I’m not seeing how u-joints could get out of phase? The shaft ends are fixed, even if I take the yoke off and rotate it 180, or just rotate the shaft 180 and put the ujoints on at the rear, the phase doesn’t change.
    This seems more to do when having a driveshaft made or altered, right?
     
  15. yes, either when it is built or if a slip joint is slid apart and put back together wrong.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  16. from this photo it looks like the air cleaner will be above the hood? 63575072298__9C209ADB-9C6F-4E0A-B593-5801FE88C9DE.JPG
     
  17. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,231

    Budget36
    Member

    I get ya, I think the ‘42 Ford Pu and ‘48 F1 I had , had that type of drive shaft. I knew it was something to pay attention to on the two piece shafts, had forgot about others
     
  18. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,231

    Budget36
    Member

    It’s tough to tell from the pic, but looks like a flattened cross member to lower it, maybe to keep pan clearance above the scrub line?

    Hey, it’s 4 am here, just home from work. Mind is wandering;)
     
  19. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,267

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I guess I would like to see a picture of the whole frame. Most model A builds wind up with the engine oil pan rail no higher than the top of the frame. The majority are probably a bit below the top of the frame. So I am having trouble comprehending why the engine needs to be on stilts.
     
  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,396

    squirrel
    Member

    looks like you have the cart before the horse, or something...

    Typical procedure to mock up this stuff, is to set the body on the chassis, put the engine in so it looks like it belongs where it is, adjust the angle of the engine so either it's parallel to the frame (for real early cars), or has the nose up 3 to 4 degrees (most cars). Also, make sure that everything will fit, including the steering, exhaust, radiator, firewall, etc. Then, mount the rear end and set the pinion angle so it's either parallel, or pinion down just a skosh (1 degree or less) relative to the engine center line.
     
  21. Something definitely wrong if you need engine mounts that tall unless you are running one of those super rare 48 quart oil pans.

    Bring that engine back down to earth, correctly locate it THEN adjust your pinion angle to work with your engine-trans angle.
     
  22. Does that mount have any rubber in it? If not vibration is going to be at work.In time it will crack something....it always does.
     
    alanp561 and tb33anda3rd like this.
  23. Ground clearance for the hooptie wheels!:p:p:p:p
     
    RustyBullet, Blue One and Tman like this.
  24. Best to take folks advice and start over. What you have is jacked
     
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  25. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 675

    jaracer
    Member

    On the 58 - 63 GM cars with the Y frame, the driveshaft went through the center tube. It was 2 piece and there was a center support bearing. One of the yokes was bolted and splined so that you could remove it to service the center support bearing. It was very possible to assemble it out of phase.
     
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  26. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,229

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Drop that engine down to where it sits as low as feasible. That means so it's got good pan clearance to the ground, and not so low you'd bottom out, nor so low you can't access spark plugs. Then set the angle based on the block being around 5 degrees down at the rear.
    When you set up your rear axle make the pinon cancel the engine angle by doing the same 5 degree pinion angle. The driveline angle will be whatever it needs to be to connect the two.
    Having the engine up in the air will be a poor center of gravity, and result in a top heavy chassis. The only thing gained by an engine being up high is weight transfer to the rear axle at launch. But that's not an issue these days with the better rubber we have on tires.
     
  27. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,200

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you have a "smart phone" you can use this "app" to determine if the angles are correct. Good luck, lots of good advice from previous posters.
    https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=154
     
  28. gbones32coupe
    Joined: Jan 1, 2007
    Posts: 658

    gbones32coupe
    Member

    I like this what a great video thanks
    Sent from my LM-Q720 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,267

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When you set your engine angle take into account tire rake. Unless you get crazy with tire sizes, most cars will have 2 or 3 degrees of tire rake.
     
  30. this must be the look? 7775508-1931-ford-model-a-std.jpg
     
    mad mikey and squirrel like this.

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