Pretty sure it is not only Henry that would have loved that! I also had a couple mid 80's Ford trucks... All in all, they were good trucks, and I was even impressed with the strength of the trucks and their components. With that said though, I got to experience parts swapping AND smog stuff! One of my biggest gripes was why Ford took their International Diesels and made an adapter from the SAE #2 bellhousing to a Ford transmission that was only SLIGHTLY off from a BBF bellhousing...why? Have to give Ford credit.....they had the guts to try and make a Holley emissions legal into the 80's!
Metalshapes, may I point out that the 351W block with Yates/Cleveland heads was the most potent 358" NASCAR powerplant. So potent in fact that NASCAR let all the manufacturers design their own version so they could compete.
See the engine in my avatar? That is the 255" Indy V8 based on the 260" Challenger production engine. The heads on this engine were firebreathers. Did you ever notice how small block Fords seem to make such good road race engines? SBC's did well at the dragstrips that's for sure but somehow the little short deck lightweight rotating assembly, high velocity ported Fords always seemed to be able to hold their own on a road course. You think that's an accident?
A little slack for you here, as I'm assuming that you are way too young to have actually watched any of these races in person, as I did- grew up about 45 min from Watkins Glen, started going in '65, and saw and met quite a few Google worthy folks like Jerry Grant, Lothar Motchenbacher, Ed Lowther, Hal Keck, Peter Revon, Bob Bondurant etc. IF you had been there, you could have seen what the "asthmatic" 289ci GT350's did to the 327 Corvettes in B Production. Also saw some cars like the Howmet turbines, Chaparrals, Carrera 6's, on and on
Yep, and don't forget the heavy weight penalties NHRA saddled the Clevelands with in ProStock so the poor little Chebbies could keep up. Funny, I thought I saw a 351C tunnel ram at the Sacramento Raceway last Sunday, but it looked funny, a little wide across the bottom, but otherwise looked like a 351C- turned out to be for NASCAR Chebbie heads And those restrictor plates, while generally touted as speed-reducers for safety, also effectively choked off the better- breathing Fords, another "equalizer"
My point of all this ( and appearently poorly worded ) is what was available to the grassroots Hot Rodder. Like the 2.02 Doublehump heads I have on 3 of my cars with SBC's ( a 4BBl 327, a Blown 327, and a quad Weber 350 ) Seems to me that the closest real world counterpart to those is my E7 headed 351W that I have run with and without a Turbo. And to me, its just not the same... I really do prefer the Chevy's...
My buddy that had all the 427 Cobras and the race GT40 (#P1009, you can Google that too lol- also owned GT40 MKII #P1012, the original one that Peter Revson crashed at Daytona, not the fake) had one of those DOHC Indy engines in the '70's and '80's, I carried the shortblock in my arms from the truck to the workbench inside- one light critter I have a couple boxes of old 35mm slides from my early years at The Glen- Jerry Grant's beautiful 289-powered T70, the T70 that Mark Donahue burned to the ground in '66, and a close-up of the one he won with in '67 in Victory Lane, one of the very few Ford GT40MKIII street cars built, and one that the Vette guys love to argue over, George Wintersteen's Corvette GranSport roadster
Correction about the mid mid-year options noted. Just goes to show how quickly the pony car wars heated up!
I really do wish we could get you out here to watch the vintage road races at Sears Point, and you could actually see and hear these cars run- and the Trans-Am cars are always the highlight of the day. you'd see a '70 Parnelli Jones B2, both '69 and '70 George Follmer B2, '68 and '69 Donahue Camaros and the later Penske Javelins etc., and see how ridiculously fast the early GT350's actually were/are. And they run 'em hard as the pic below will show- Vic and Camie Edelbrock push each other pretty hard, as the matching "dings" show. Also, if you read the spoiler on Smokey Yunicks' beautiful-but-tweaked Camaro that Camie drives, it reminds you that she also drives one of those R-Model GT350's in the production class, and usually waxes the ol' man in his 327 Corvette See the blue driving suit legs in the background? That's Vic Edelbrock chewin' the fat with a fan I also have 427 engine parts in three different restored '63-1/2 Holman Moody NASCAR Galaxies that run the vintage races
I stand corrected. They didnt mate a set of Cleveland heads to a Windsor to try and find more power.. They were just bored that week and there was some money left over in the budget...
True... And again, I'm not anti Ford. ( fuck... I even defended the lowly Pinto... ) And Total Performance was a serious program with serious results. All I'm saying is, that the SBF from its introduction to , say, the late '70s has some interchangabillity problems ( I know because I ran into some of them ), and that the production heads ( ones that you might find on a used car or in a junkyard ) are shit. And that is why I'm phasing my SBF's out in favor of SBC's. But I'll keep playing with my Crossflow and Pre-Crossflow based Ford engines, my 2.0 Pinto, and I'm going to give a 2.3 SVO a try...
This post is bringing back some great memories for me... When I was in college some 20 years ago, my dorm roommate raced a late model on the dirt circle tracks in central Missouri on the weekends. He was the only guy in the circuit that ran a Ford. It was a stroker motor based on a windsor block with cleveland heads. It was a crazy expensive motor to build..but nobody could come close to making the power that thing had. SBC's couldn't come close. It was an obviously superior setup and was awesome to watch. To me this whole discussion boils down to performance/engineering vs. practicality. But what do I know....I like flatheads.
Bingo! There's that secret handshake I was talking about! At one point I went from being blissfully non small block Ford owning to having three under my wing at once. A '68 302, a '71 302 (in it's original carrying case, a Maverick) and a customers '76 302. There was very little that interchanged on any of the three, and all of this was compounded by the customers use of a AOD from a different year engine. Trying to find out the flex plate was insane, too. They run great once everything is sorted out, but screw that, I'll build Chevys that actually fit beter into the cars I'm working with from here on out. That said, I have a back yard full of Falcon sixes that I'm enamored with, and a 2.3 four in my Modified. They're staying!
It really is funny to get on here and read about extravagant car builds that cost lots of dollars and then read about someone who complains when every part on a Ford engine doesnt interchange. Good excuse to be lazy. BTW , Im building a 55 Chevy because I can put a grill in it from a 37 Pontiac.
That is insulting... I cant be expected to waste my resources on stuff that isnt engineered to fit as it could. I have better things to do with that time and money.
It was not meant to be an insult, but I do feel that many people use parts interchangeability as an excuse of Ford engines. It really isnt that hard. My new SBF is a 260 crank cut for a 1 piece rear main seal, 289 rods, and a 302 roller block with 28oz balance. Easy, cheap, lighter than a 350 , and I didnt have to consult a neurosurgeon to build it.
The whole premise of this thread is "I did not do any research on what parts fit my car before I bought them, therefore Fords suck"
Sure they did- but not until '69. The Tunnel Port 302 was one year only in '68, as the Cleveland heads already existed in '69 even thought the 351C hadn't been introduced, so why not? all it took was a Buddy Bar intake manifold (actually the '69 B2's ran two Dominators for a while on 302ci) and a couple water passages in the heads. You'll see a pic in a minute of the two B2's I have been taking care of since '75- I built the engine in the '70 in '79 with Chrysler 426 Hemi valves and a "Sullivan" solid cam, still running strong. The '69 is 100% stock, still has the original air cleaner on it. So yeah, I'm fairly well versed in B2's, and I didn't get it from Google or Wiki None of that, or your "selective quoting" of me changes the FACT that the wedge 289 did VERY well in mid-sixties road racing, and usually against larger engines. It was very light, torquey, and had no problem staying together at high RPM- even the big-port B2 Trans-Am cars had a 4000 rpm power band to play with. The 289 was very successful in SCCA Production racing (GT350 and 289 Cobra roadster)and USRRC, FIA (289 Cobra roadster and coupe, 1965 World Champion, Ford GT40MKI, LeMans winner in '68 and '69 along with many other races), off-road in the Broncos, Baja 1000, Baja 500, Mint 400 etc. A buddy of mine had some success drag racing a 289, too, as the original "aimer" of the first Dragonsnake- you may have heard of it. Yeah, he's in the pictures in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV6I9X0Qd78
MeanGene, didnt you know that Chevy designed sooooo many stock cylinder heads that were super performers------------like the camel toes or better yet, the Vortecs? LOL!
To paraphrase slightly, "I cant be expected to waste my resources on doing any research on what parts fit my car before I buy them."
My papaws 327 headers wont fit on my LS7, but my buddies 351 Windsors almost work. WHAT DO I DO NOW????
I have done the research... A Small Block Chevy fits. Its funny how little criticism some ford guys can handle. Even if its accompanied with well meant praise. I guess that is what blind adoration is all about...
No, the Ford guys have pretty much stuck to facts, while you have spun and spun things to avoid having to admit that what you posted earlier was wr... wr... just can't stomach it, eh? Nitey Nite, Chebbie guy- you can't change facts and history, somewhere there's always a record of things, and somebody who actually saw it happen in person. The spin is making me dizzy- Later!
Small block Chevys fit everywhere---------everywhere that you can cut a hole for the distributor. Funny how an engine over 100 pounds heavier with the same basic dimensions, " fits " better.
Nope... Not really a Chevrolet guy either. It just happens I've had more luck with them. But when it really boils down to it, one cast iron pushrod v8 isnt that different from the next one. All the more reason to look for the small differences that suit you better...
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