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Technical Wheel wobble, can't figure this one out. SOLVED

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by magnus13, May 8, 2019.

  1. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    I'm working on a 32 build with a beam axle and 37-48 spindles. I'm running drum brakes up front with the Buick finned drums, hub mounted on the outside per all the conversion threads on the hamb. When I go to mount the wheel and tire and give it a spin (frame is lifted), it wobbles anywhere from 1/8-1/4". By wobble, I mean it's as if a washer was put over one lug nut and everything else tightened down so the wheel isn't sitting square against the hub. This is the same on both left and right side.

    Here's what I've checked so far:
    -I placed a dial indicator on the hub (no wheel) and rotated it and can see it has about a .003"-.005" wobble over the 360 degrees of rotation (.003" seems acceptable)
    -I've had the tires mounted to the wheel and balanced at a reputable tire shop.
    -I've tried all 4 wheel/tires on both sides of the front to check if I happened to have received a bad set of wheels from WheelSmith. All of them wobble the same when each wheel/tire is mounted.
    -All lug nuts are torques down properly.

    What am I missing here? I've done suspension/brake work on a lot of other cars and the wheels always seem to mount pretty square. Could I have received a set of 4 bad wheels?
     
  2. Center hole fit the hub???
     
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  3. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 6,742

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^Check this first!
     
  4. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,570

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    Are the wheels and hubs flat?
    Hub centric or lug centric wheels?
    Correct lug nuts for the wheels?
    What are you torquing the wheels to?
    I’ve seen O/T vws and fox body 4 lug mustangs, when wheels were over torqued would cause vibration and run out issues. And not by a lot I’m talking 100 ftlbs as opposed to 75-80 ftlbs
     

  5. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,564

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    .003 at the hub does seem minor but It will become further exaggerated the further away from the hub it gets, not sure that would be enough to be the problem but you could tape a straight edge like a ruler, yard stick or something across the hub (beside or missing the spindle) at the high point and turn it and see what that looks like???

    Im sure Ive ran some with that much wobble:D but I doubt its the wheels If you tried all of em, however you could also rotate the same wheel so its clocked or turned and sitting in a different position on the hub as well....mark on your hub where you are getting your wobble, then take the wheel back off and reclock it and see what you get.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  6. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,564

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    .....Ive heard of and saw the buick finned drums being used for years but never really looked close and really dont know what all is involved in the modification, I have had to grind a few nubs or rivets off other drums and hubs to get a set of wheels to work and run true but never dealt with this.......so the drum is mounted to the back side of the hub? ......got any pics? someone here who knows more than me could probably help you out pretty quick if you had a pic.
     
  7. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,388

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Maybe dimensional tolerance stack-up? Try putting the drums on the hub 180 out (roughly) and see if it helps or hurts. While its apart look for burrs/debris on the surfaces or around the bolt holes.
     
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  8. Blake 27
    Joined: Apr 10, 2016
    Posts: 644

    Blake 27

    You didn't say what wheel type your using, without knowing that I would suggest applying a little clay on the balance weights that are bolted on the outside face of the drum. Perhaps the wheel style is the problem.
     
    RICH B likes this.
  9. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 983

    X-cpe

    Does the bell on the inside of the wheel clear the fins on the drum? Have you tried mounting them on the rear axle to positively eliminate the wheels?
     
  10. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    Here's the drum setup. When I mount the dial indicator on the mating surface that the wheel seats on, and spin it, I get the .003" runnout. Seems to be a pretty minor amount. Everything spins true, even the drum.

    I mounted the wheel originally and torqued it to ~75#. That's where I was getting the wobble. Tonight, I took the torque up to ~ 120# and that seems to have eliminated the wobble, but that seems pretty excessive. Is that too much or is that about what's needed? 20190508_203604.jpeg 1557373652216.jpeg

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    When the wheels are on the rear axle everything seems to spin true.

    I'm wondering if it has to do with the torque of the nuts.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  12. Does the pilot on the hub fit the center hole in the rim? Hard to tell from in your picture.
    1557373652216_LI.jpg
     
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  13. [​IMG]
    As said already. Not indexing correctly. Measure big hole in wheel and compared to hub center.
    [​IMG]
     
    X-cpe likes this.
  14. DLRIDES
    Joined: Sep 29, 2014
    Posts: 129

    DLRIDES
    Member
    from Newton NC

    Has anyone noticed this radius on the hub looks to have grinder marks ?

    OP, check this radius as compared to wheel.

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  15. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,181

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    Also check your wheel bearing adj, I see no grease nor split pin.
     
    Mr48chev likes this.
  16. daliant
    Joined: Nov 25, 2009
    Posts: 683

    daliant
    Member

    How much clearance do you have between the balance weight on the drum and the wheel?
     
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  17. tikiwagon13
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 371

    tikiwagon13
    Member

    I was chasing a similar issue, ended up that the bearing spacing, the distance between the inner and outer bearings was too big and the outer bearing was on the threads, not the shaft so there was a bit of play, but by the time the wheels and tires were on, the play was multiplied.
     
  18. koolbeans
    Joined: Apr 12, 2015
    Posts: 536

    koolbeans
    Member

    Thought. If wheels and tires were mounted and balanced properly, meaning on the balance machine, and no wobble the culprit has to be in the mount up to the hub.
    Now if the hub spins up and no visible wobble, .003" is nothing, then on mount up to the hub the wobble occurs/visibly, it would seem the mating faces or center hole is/are the cause.????

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  19. dirt t
    Joined: Mar 20, 2007
    Posts: 4,662

    dirt t
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Kingman,AZ
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club

    Subscribe.
    Please post the fix when you find it.
     
  20. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 978

    birdman1

    is 1/4" too much runout??
     
  21. satan'schariot
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 103

    satan'schariot
    Member

    Not if you're Clark Griswald and you drive a family truckster LOL !
     
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  22. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    That's a good point. I never noticed that little lip on the hub. I'll have to check that out tonight.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  23. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    There is no grease or pin on the outer one yet. I'm still in mock up stage. It's tightened down so there is no play in the hub though.
     
  24. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 983

    X-cpe

    I would say that 120# is a bit stout. I think that the lip DLRIDES circled in red may be a shade larger than the pilot hole in your wheel and 120# basically pulled the back of the wheel tight to the flange all the way around like 75# couldn't. If that is true you would be bowing the center of your wheel.
     
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  25. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    That's what I'm thinking because It doesn't happen when I check the wheels on the rear axle. It only seems to happen on the front hubs. I never noticed the lip on the hub mating surface so I'm going to check that out tonight.

    Thanks everyone for another set of eyes and suggestions. I'll get back to you on what I find.
     
  26. magnus13
    Joined: Jun 1, 2013
    Posts: 126

    magnus13
    Member
    from California

    Hubs are from Wilson Welding. They're not mine The wheel doesn't seat against that radius that looks like it's ground, but I never noticed the lip next to it. I have a feeling that may be the cause. I think the grinding marks are from the casting process.
     
    DLRIDES likes this.
  27. oldbanger71
    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 131

    oldbanger71
    Member

    Did you install the hub bearings your self ?
    Might be worth checking the bearings again.
    I had ill-seated bearings on "restored hubs" on a '29 ford . Just my two cents.
     
  28. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,542

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Also be sure your lug nuts are correct for your wheels.
    Are they the same taper as your lug holes seats on the wheels?
     
  29. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 325

    sdroadster
    Member

    I had to remove the Buick Drum balance weight once because it interfered with the wheel seating.
     
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  30. koolbeans
    Joined: Apr 12, 2015
    Posts: 536

    koolbeans
    Member

    Absolutely

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

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