what would you run: 318 vs 392 vs 413

Time for my first poll, though im still mired in body work and rust repair on my 58 plymouth, I've been thinking ahead to my motor/tranny combo for the car. I basically have 3 choices to choose from. Obviously the 392 is a very attractive option except for one thing, cost! man rebuilding this thing will be $$$! Cost estimates are a bit rough so feel free to chime in.

#1 Stock 318 poly: The motor that came with the car. Has been sitting since 1966 with a blown up and partly dismantled powerflight. Motor had around 70,000 on it from what i can tell when it was parked. The motor spins freely and odds are i could get it running with a gasket set and new bearings. Its pretty nasty inside like most motors of this vintage but i think i could get away with it. Has the factory 2-bbl intake and carb. With this option i would use another powerflight that i have sitting around that needs new seals (leaks like a sieve out of the front shaft right now) but was supposedly rebuilt prior to leakage or i could use a SB 727 with an adaptor plate i bought for the 392 years ago. Cost to get going? $1000 to $2000 depending on tranny.

#2 1958 392 Hemi: a motor i've run before, its never been more apart than the head gasket i put in it 10 years ago when i was driving the new yorker it was in. Had some leaky valve seals (smoke on decel) but otherwise in decent shape. Realisticly i would want to do a full rebuild on it as its got 80,000 on it and is pretty sludged up inside. Don't want to risk ruining the motor. Has minimal ridges in the cylinders and might be viable for a re-ring, otherwise .030 over it would seem. Ideally i would want to run an a-518 behind it or a SB 727, i already have an adapter plate. Also has a hot heads dual plane intake waiting for it. Cost? it seems like 6 to 10k depending on the tranny and what i would do in the rebuild.

#3 1965 413: This motor was rebuilt 20k ago, blueprinted and balanced. Taken down so dad could put a 66+ 727 behind a 440 to sell the car it was in. Has ported 915 heads and would need a cam/lifters, gasket kit and a general look over. The tranny that was hooked up to this guy blew up (literally) when the rear u-joint broke in the car causing the slip yoke to get cocked and exploding the rear housing. We have another 65 cable shift 727 that would need to be rebuilt to use it. Later TF's cause the driveline to lock up as the crank has like 1/16th or 1/8th more material on its back face than later RB's. Has 10 to 1 compression and was taken .030 over, has a factory 4-bbl intake. This motor was a bad ass, and would run strong. Cost: 2,000 or so?

All 3 options would bolt into my chassis with no mods except for the a-518, which is still easy to add to the tranny x-member. Would you guys wait an extra year to drive your car to get the Hemi? I can afford to put about 6-8k a year into the project at this point. I'm probably 2 years out from getting the driveline in it, but i feel like i should be picking a direction on the driveline soon so i can be on the look out for the right parts. This car will be a cruiser so i don't feel like ill need to make a monster motor for it, the 392 or 413 would be targeted towards big fat torque curves so no monster cams, I do want to drive it a lot

 

a HEMI is ALWAYS worth waiting for....if you need to be running sooner than that...bolt in the motor mounts of your 'driver' engine so when you are ready to drop in the Hemi....you pull the temp motor out and engineer/install the REAL engine.

dj

 

I'd go with the 392 hemi. I would change it over to a stick shift, though. However, I'm a Chevy guy, and don't know how much trouble the stick changeover for a 58 Plymouth would be. If it is as easy as changing a 55 - 57 Chevy, or a 58 - 64 Chevy, the stick shift would be a piece of cake.

 

I cast my vote for the 413, moderate sized powerhouse that deserves some respect. The minute anyone mentions Hemi and $$$ in the same sentence- the red flag goes off. Build the Hemi when the $$$ are not a issue. I would just rather you be seen driving in your car than crying in your check book. Just my $.02, TR

 

Going in the car in your avitar?

413 save the hemi for a race car, you know you're gona want one.

Oh and its not going to cost you 2K for tear down and inspection. A cam and lifters for that mill can be had for less than 200 bucks and torque flites are cheap to go through.

 

I'm assuming the avatar PNB, very cool but looks like it could be Christines evil step sister huh?

 

Some times life is hard. Looking down the road to resale day, a 58 Plymouth won't be worth much more with a hemi than it would be with the 413. The 413 is also a less expensive alternative. Either save the hemi for a future project or sell it and be on the road a year or two sooner.
Notice that no one has even mentioned the 318? This is a hot rod forum.

 

The 413 is a BITCH to get pistons of any size for, and very expensive because of that. A 440 or a 426W are much easier and cheaper to source pistons for.

So, if I were going to build one of your three choices, the 392 HEMI for sheer cool power, and for similar money as the 413. Price those pistons, you'll see.

 

318:A good 727 should be a cheap pick up from a van or pick up, especially where you have the adaptor already. Would need to change rear axle for parking brake, not to mention benifits of modern axle. There are 4 bl, 2X4 & 3X2 intakes out there & can be stroked from 349 up to 402. Cool lookin valve covers too! " Rebuilt 20 years ago" I take it a lot of miles added to it since then, where you said it needs cam, ect? The Bs had a slight change @ the same time as the As on the crank situation.

Being a Hemi guy, I go along with this angle also.

That's the usuall comment on doing a 413!

 

The 413 was done about 10 years ago and had new piston put in, its got roughly 20,000 on it since then my dad stole the cam for a 440 and that's why it needs one.

 

I owned a '63 New Yorker Salon with the 340 horse 413.

The '65 413 came with either 340 or 360 horsepower, both with 470 lbs/ft of torque (more than any big block Chevy until the 1970 454). Seems to me that would get you cruising the way you want without breaking the bank.

Just looked at Kanter and Egge for 413 pistons. Kanter has them for $48 each, $384 a set; Egge has them for $493 a set.

 

Considering I can get 440 pistons for $18.00 each, the 413 piston is pretty spendy.

 

@ 20K I'd think that would be the way to go. Throw in a cam & lifters & some Marvel Mystery Oil in case of some sticking rings, unless the pistons have corroded up sitting.

 

The 413 should make a good driver motor. Save the 392 for a hot rod, where it belongs.

 

i agree; 413. save the hemi for hoodless hotrod.

 

A Hemi makes (almost) anything a hot rod!

 

And so that is the reason he should use the hemi?

Yea makes perfect sense waste the most desirable hemi ever built of you are a serious traditional rodder in a boat. (no offense to the OP intended)

 

Do the 413 for a driver, clean up the 318 in case you want to sell the car you can drop the 318 in and keep the 413 for something else...I'm not convinced a 392 will make the same power per dollar that a 413 will, especially with the decent heads you have and a good cam...sure, after a certain dollar amount the hemi will make more power, but on a budget your best bet is the 413...

 

The 413 hands down!I put a mild rebuilt one in a 71 Duster and ran low 12's high 11's with it.Best bang for the buck,and pistons are available.I also ran the 509 hydraulic purple shaft with the early closed chamber heads,lots of power for that 2 ton sled your gonna put it in..

 

413 in my opinion....
Hemi's for a hot rod project...
Good luck. You are very fortunate to have those many choices,
Cheers,

 

413 really "Digs in", so I've heard.

 

Believe me, i know that i'm lucky. We have a "problem" when it comes to collecting motors.


So far the 392 and 413 are neck and neck in the polling (392 has a slight lead) its funny how the poll shows the same dilemma of picking between them that i have in my mind

 

If you take away the bullshit,for a street engine that can be driven in traffic,will a 392 Hemi make more usable power than a 413?

 

The 57-63 Imperials were heavy, I suspect either will get the job done in his Plym.

 

Actually in stock trim the first gen hemi is a little over rated. Yea they look cool and all but the wedge makes as much if not more zot and will out rev one in stock trim.

 

How about 'none of the above'? All of your choices need work, and we all know that once you get started more will be needed.

A quick scroll through a couple Colorado cities craigslist sections and you will find some pretty righteous deals on 440 stuff. Running engines and some with trans attached for less than a grand. No work needed other than a drive to fetch one and then counting out some dead presidents...

Hell, even a dead stock 440 from a motor home would be a good choice for the car. You need the grunt.

my 2¢

.

 

Oh my,you may have insulted the Hemi gods

 

OMG the truth should hurt. The hemi has potential but unless you happen to snag one of them that was destined to run on the beach at Daytona they were just not that hot a motor. They are cool but like I said they just didn't come out of the factory making top fuel power.

 

I voted for the poly 318 and 727. For some reason the 413 doesnt really trip my trigger for your car... not sure why, but that would be my second choice. As for the HEMI, I say save that one for a coupe or somethin, in my mind it doesn't go with the car you're building. The poly is a cool little engine for a cool cruiser.

End of the day it's your car, just my two cents. I seem to be the minority here.

 

our family had a 64, 300, 413, 4bbl, posi. the hotrod kids would see the dual exhaust and want to race. my dad said the key to beating them was to baby the throttle to limit wheel spin. go with the 413....