What to do with this broken 283 V8

I would put new rings and at least rod bearings in it. pull out all the core plugs and take it to the car wash and really clean the crud from the water jackets and run high pressure water through all the oil galleys. and then use a rifle cleaning kit to run through every oil passage. hone the cyls and clean them with hot soapy water use a scrub brush. and then wipe them with paper towels soaked in auto tran fluid. and keep at it until the paper towels are clean. Use a mixture of 50 % engine oil and 50% of some motor honey like STP or Lucas ect as a assembly lube. And If you install a new cam don't let it idle when it is first started. Run the engine at 3000 RPM for thirty minutes. And then change the oil & filter. And then drive it like your going to drive it. No need to break it in. For the 30 minute first start I always use gas that has 1/2 pint of outboard 2 cycle oil mixed with each gallon of gas. Its just a upper cyl and valve lube insurance.

 

Definitely on-side with this. I hook the hose to the hot water tap in the laundry room in my basement, and really flush the snot out of it with HOT water and detergent instead of the car wash, but yes, same idea. I assemble with a virtually dry cylinder wall now, just a light wipe with 30W on the wall and on the rings, but yea, definitely agree with the rest.

 

just a question, not an argument, i respect both of your opinions. just learning. if the rod bearings plast-gage ok why would i change them? i also have 3 pistons that the rings are stuck. i have them soaking now. if they "pop" free and are "springy" like the rest of the rings and if they fit the cylinders with a proper ring gap would they have to be changed? in other words what would make them unusable? not knowing how worn they are or is there a "test" that deems them junk?
i can scrape up the money for new rings [despite the wife going for large fries AND double cheese tonight] i would just like to have the knowledge to know when something is garbage.
sometimes when you start digging into a project the list of things to fix keeps growing. this engine so far is an exception [famous last words] i keep finding stuff that looks too good to change. i think this motor went through a pretty extensive rebuild in the day.
if i take it to a machine shop to test for cracks will they clean it?

 

I have one of those high pressure power washers. and I also hook it to the hot water heater. I lube the pistons and rings liberally and just engine oil on the cyl walls. the ring compressor squeezes out most of the assembly lube when installing the pistons anyhow. and it also is inportiant to use a modified distributer to pre lube the engine oil. you gotta have something in the dist hole to lube the lifter galleys.

 

I simply wouldn't risk that the old rings are not worn or have lost their tension. They also could have become brittle and possibly break and score a cyl wall. Yes you could reuse the bearings and probably be Ok. However a bearing has a soft outer layer of Babbitt. That is there for embedability. It allows any hard particle of carbon or dirt & debris to embed in the bearing and not score the crank. Take a used bearing and put it under a microscope and compare it to a new one. Also I always put a drop of blue Loctite on the rod bolts when assembling.

 

Agree 100% on the pre-luber. I didnt start out assembling the cylinder walls dry, but over time, I just started using less and less lube on the cylinder walls and rings.
I do not put lock-tite on rod bolts. I agree on changing the rings, I wouldn't really consider re-using them. Looking at the lifters, my hunch is there were VERY few miles on a rebuild when this thing tossed a rod, for whatever reason. I would like to see the bearings in person, but thats just not possible. Its easy to tell if bearings are really worn out by looking at a photo on the internet, but its a lot harder to tell if they have 500 miles or 5000 miles on them by looking at a photo on the internet.

 

If you take it to a machine shop for cleaning, they will hot tank it and you will need new cam bearings, I would clean it myself. In fact, I always clean blocks REALLY thoroughly before I take them in, and after I get them back, ESPECIALLY after I get them back!! Most hot tanks are filthy.
Same as wolf said, I THOROUGHLY clean the cylinder walls first with a stiff scrub brush and LOTS of HOT water and detergent, then by wiping the cylinder walls with ATF and a paper towel, until a white paper towel is SPOTLESS. And I mean SPOTLESS. ANY leftover honing grit will kill it. It literally takes me an afternoon to do the final clean on a block before assembly, it has to be surgically clean. Really gotta emphasize this.

 

You mean it doesn't take five seconds like on Engine Power?

 

This is great information and the timing couldn't be better. I've got my old 283 on the stand. Me and my boy are gonna pull the heads after school today. Thanks for sharing guys.

 

Ok heres pictures of two small journal rods. one rod has extra metal at the top beefing up where the rod bolts attach. That's the best rod the other is round and not considered as good. Ok also pictures of used rod bearings notice the scratches and debris embedded in them. They might plastiguage and measure out Ok. But I wouldn't use them. Ok now if you wanted to be certain the engine will not break another rod. You would get a set of the good rods. and have the pistons and rods all weigh the same. all come up in the bores and have the same deck height. and have it balanced. and that doesn't come cheap. I suspect the rod did break because of balance issues? Now heres the poor mans way. get a crank and piston from a factory engine. weigh the piston and rod assembly. then take your pistons and rods and weigh them. and instead of drilling the counterweights on the crank. remove metal from the bosses at the top of the rod and bottom on the rod cap until your pistons & rods weigh the same. and use that factory crank because you don't know what has been done to your crank. The deck height is a easier thing. With floating pins you keep juggling rods and pistons until you get them all as close as you can. actually you want to get the deck height first before balancing the piston & rod assembly. There are digital scales available now that really make weighing the rods & pistons easy. Ill not get into CC ing the heads here.

 

Just got a new book today.


I will say this book is pretty hard-core, and it is EXPENSIVE($97 for about 150 pages, no pictures). Its not for someone who doesn't like math (hell its ALL math, one end to the other), and its no use to someone who doesn't already have an understanding of valve events, and probably some flow bench time doesnt hurt either, but if you are serious about taking your understanding to another level, theres a lot of meat here. I havent even had time to actually use the formulas yet, I just got it this afternoon have just spent an hour or so reading it, but man, theres a lot here.

 

I like the New Avatar Falcon George!
Sorry, back to the thread!

 

^^thats what Keith said too. I was gonna change back to a pic of my daughter, but I'll keep it for a little while anyway.

 

Oh goody, more math

 

You should see the valve timing calculations! I'm in seventh heaven here...

 

Hey Uncle Louie!!, get on here and tell 'em what cam you were using in your 283 when you won that race back in '62.......
Seriously, Falcongeorge, thanks for all the cam info. Your explanation was great, I'll be copying it and filing it in with my engine building reference info. I'm one of those types that doesn't keep much of the engine tech stuff in my head - I have to do research and study as I get closer to building the engine for each project.
I saw this thread and thought, WTF? another small block Chevy thread..... wrong....... this is way cool.
I have to laugh though, I have a "no side mount" SBC under the work bench. I've gathered up all the same bits as you guys did to make it into a solid lifter, dual WCFB, small cap tach drive distributor, Corvette motor for future use. Mine was a dealer "take out" from Harry Mann Chevrolet in L.A. a long time ago. Now, I'm curious, I'll have to go pull it out, get the numbers and see what it really is.
If I had any real balls, I'd build it now, mate it to the '55-57 Chevy Wedge Eng scattershield and Muncie 4 spd I've been saving and stick the whole package in my '56 210 in place of the 307/TH350 in there now. Hmmm...
So Falcongeorge, using your method, is there an "off-the-shelf" cam out there that's close to use-able in tb33anda3rd's application?

 

i wonder if my library can get for me?

 

Sure CAN !!!



You're HEAD librarian there, yes ?

 

it's a shitty job, but someone has to do it.
i like that.......except for the lamb tp holder.

 

I posted it a ways back (post #98, page 4, click on the link). I am actually about to change, well more like revise and 'tighten up" my method of cam selection based on what I have been reading in this book last night before bed. I dont know if it will actually change which cam I would suggest as an off-the-shelf profile, but I can see how it will help me hone in a little tighter on where I initially install a cam, or change the way I might spec a custom grind.
I have been talking to DDDenny a bit off-forum about this book already this morning, it really is a good read. Like i said to DDDenny, there are no huge revelations in it, but taken as a whole, it is helping me to take fragmented concepts and understandings, and make them into a more cohesive whole understanding of whats going on inside a running engine. If you are someone who looks at a cam card and can relate what you see on the cam card to the valves actually opening and closing relative to the pistons motion, you will get a LOT out of this book, you will get a lot more than a $100 worth of value out of this book.
I have bought other books that cost me a fifth of what this book did, some of which are highly touted by other HAMBERs, and felt like i didnt even get $20 worth of info out of them. I am only 4 chapters in on this one, and I have already gotten more than $100 worth of value from this. And I know I am going to have to read it a few times before I really have absorbed it.
And I have a bad case of scattershield envy!!!

The basic premise of the book is looking at the running engine in terms of a "Seven Process Model" instead of four strokes, and the cover photo I posted gives a quick illustration of that "seven process model", take a good look at it and break it it down in your mind, and you will get a general idea of where the book goes. The book is actually about the process the author used in developing the 'Engine Pro" dyno simulation software, and the math that software was based on. Its real in-depth stuff, and he doesn't pull any punches or hold anything back.
Some of the math is complex, I pm'ed DDDenny the calculation for figuring out peak torque cause I know he HATES math (like I said to him, truth is, I hate it too, but its the keys to the kingdom in engine building), and I like to kid him a little, it is 3 pages and 20 consecutive equations. I havent actually sat down to do the math yet, I plan to read it twice cover to cover first, so I really feel like I have a grasp on it. I have said it before, math is great, but if you dont understand the 'whys' behind it, and cant relate it to the real world, its not really useful. this is why guys continue to delude themselves with that "carb formula", they haven't given any thought to what the numbers they are playing with actually represent.
I am spinning out of control here, I always get really excited when I feel like I have cracked another part of the "code", and I genuinely want to share that "aha" with others, but I will shut up now.

 

Well have you fixed your broken engine yet?

 

hah, not yet. i have a good friend, who is moving back to the area, that is a sbc guru. he wrote the boo the small block chevy interchange manual. he wants to see "play" with the engine when he gets here. i always learn something from him and look forward to saving this "fun" project to do with him when he gets back. since i do not have a project for this engine right now, i can wait.
i will post the progress when we get back to it.
i have been following your 283 build also, keep up the good work.

 

Dave showed up and we have a plan. i decided to use the intake and crank to build a another 302, using a small journal 327 block [need to find]. in the mean time we are going to find a couple connecting rods and put this motor back together with what i have as a "runner", just to see if it could be done. i have a left over set of new gaskets, so it should only cost me the rods and lube. we will then test run it on a stand. this will let us find out if the block is cracked and put it all back in one piece so i know where everything is. if it runs well, doesn't smoke/leak and is quiet, we may even use in something.
i just want to test the limits of "usable" verses "junk".
good idea? no? oh well it will be fun to play.

 

Sounds good to me...If I wasnt such a power whore, I could probably do that with the Olds Paul sold me, its that nice. Definately would need a timing chain, but the rest looks really good.

 

Ive got a lot of engines fixed to where I can fire them off and run a garden hose in the water neck. suspend a lawn mower tank of gas to gravety feed the carb. A guy a couple of years older than me. Back in the 60,s had a 52 ford Pk. He drove it every day. And It was a flathead six three speed. I the bed he had a 370 pontiac and hydro. And had it set up to start. He even had a radiator. And he would fire it up and talk about how he was going to build it up to a 389 and put it in the Pk. He moved away. Never knew what happend to him. 15 years ago his brother died. And he came home for the funeral. Still driving the 52 and still had the 370 in the bed. He had moved to Rochelle Ill. In 1969.

 

picked up a bucket of stuff to put the motor together. 8 small journal rods, with pistons from a '63 327. mounting plate for the oil canister and the baffle for the road draft tube. traded for a spin on conversion parts i took off my other engine.

 

update, may go with using the 283 parts in this 327 engine i picked up . 3782870 and it is supposed to have some "good" stuff in it. came out of a barn a few towns south of here. it also came with a '69 350 3932386

 

I am 100% with you, if it doesn't have a road draft tube hole I'm not interested.