What primer to use with DuPont Centari as the topcoat??

I'm new to the DuPont world having been much more familiarized with PPG products. However, I've since talked with several fellows who have loved DuPont Centari for its ability to give good stock finsihes reminiscent of the 30s 40 and 50s.

So, my question is what primer is best to sue with a solid DuPont Centari topcoat? Could I actually use PPG's DP40 primer?

Thanks.

 

Is DP40 a sandable primer? If so, it should work fine. Charlie

 

I do believe it is, as we've scuffed it up before adding another coat, inbetween coats to stuff?? I'll make sure either way,..thanks

 

DP40 is non-sanding. I would stick within DuPont's line, though I'm not familiar either. I personally think Centari is junk, and bad for you to boot, but I have used it before on quick repaints at work.

 

And here on the other end of NJ, I think Centari is great stuff. But I'm a garage painter doing one every two years. Not a pro.

I tought Centari was a great improvement over DuLux enamel.

Not for Show cars, modern cars or for an experianced profesional doing work for profit in a real shop.

But for the hobbyist doing his own and not wanting perfect, it's simple fast and pretty bulletproof. I've painted outside in a snow shower with it

I still use laquer primer under it because I can wait a day or two between primer and finish coats.

 

I'm no pro either, but I am really picky. To each his own, I could name 10 other lines that are nicer and cost about the same.

 

Bill, I didn't mean that post as a knock to you, I've read a lot of your advice on paint here and see you know what you're doing.

I really appreciate looking at nice paint, and at most shows I go to, that;s what I'm looking at. I also appreciate the time and effort that goes into perfect paint, which reflect perfect bodywork.

But my standards for my stuff is a lot lower, Adequete describes mine. Or fleet paint



Frank

 

Ha, no offense taken! I didn't want to come off sounding pompous. I'm just really picky and I don't like the way Centari lays out. Look into some other lines next time your ready to spray. I recently found a S/S PPG line that looked like lacquer after I laid it down. I was so excited!

 

Amen....I wouldn't even say that Centari lays down. It sorta just sits there compared to how the PPG materials (even the Omni stuff) tend to lay down and flow out. There is no comparison of out of the gun results between the two companies.

-Bigchief.

 

Ha, thats an excellent way of putting it. I'm gonna have to remember that. Lol.

 

Hey slow and low, are you talkin about delfleet s/s?

 

No this was the Global line S/S. I've usually stayed in the Deltron line and got this stuff as a fluke and loved it. My new goto for S/S.

 

I spend about $30,000 a month on PPG Global and Deltron products. Are you looking for a surfacer primer or a sealer? PPG doesnt even like you mixing their lines up.

I dont think anyone is going to suggest....."Ya, this will work go ahead and try it"

The safe answer is always stay with the same line.

 

Squeeg's primer.
https://www.squeegskustoms.com/squeegs-orderform.html
Good Chit...
Bare metal, whatever, don't shrink, on the cheap, and is under alot of show winning rides out there. Shut-up and buy it

 

You can put centauri over almost any primer. DP40 wasn't invented when centauri was released. Acrylic enamel was a step forward from the first enamels. It won't last in the sun much over 2 years. If you put a hardner with it, make sure you use a forced air resirator.

 

Prime N Seal is Du Pont's version of DP. It's an epoxy primer-sealer, also non sanding. There is a newer version called DTM (direct to metal) I think. Du Pont prefers you to use etch prime on bare metal then surfacer for better adhesion. I've never had an ounce of trouble from Centari. I can buff it out and you would swear its base/clear. Haha, I actually pissed a guy off once who told me "you can't buff Centari". So, I showed him how and he actually got red and stormed off. He was a PPG user. I learned on PPG, back in the 90's when the big three had big time de-lam issues. We used DP sealer and DBU base and 2001 Clear. On the cheaper jobs we used DAU single stage or Delstar. You could make any of them glow with a good color sand and buff, but they would dye back out within a year and some jobs would peel off in sheets. I would say about 5% of the jobs held up. It wasn't just the shop where I worked at either.

No offense to anyone, nothing personal...but DP sealer is definitely crap. The lead free formula is even worse. Epoxy primer itself is a good idea on paper, but you're talking about mechanical adhesion versus chemical adhesion with an etch prime. Its an extra step but well worth it from my experiences.

 

Hey,

Many, many show cars in the 60s & 70s were shot in Centari. It flowed
well providing you used the correct reducer, knew how to 'trigger ' a
gun, and mixed according to specs. Those who never figgered all of that
out, spent alota time sanding, resanding, reshooting and polishing to
produce a finish they could sell. It was easier to use than the old alkyds
it replaced in the market.
Admitidly, I've never shot Centari with an HVLP gun, but I'm sure it's
doable. A Binks #7 @ 55-65 lbs @ the gun @ 50% reduction produced
a 10''-12'' fan and flowed beatfully without peel or sag. That was back
when a gallon of red sold for eighty bucks! Most guys added alittle clear
with their last colour coat, and shot straight clear on the last pass.
Most of the older paint products did require more work than todays over
sold, over priced urethanes. No contest that the urethane resins offer
better colour holdout than the old acrylics or alkyds did, that they are
a vastly inferior product than todays BB/CC systems isn't a line I'm going
to buy ,though!
You can shoot Centari over the DPLF 40, but given that that primer will
continue to cure days after shooting, if to much time passes before you
topcoat, adheasion problems may develope if not lightly scuff-sanded.
I'd check with the local Dupont rep to see what they sell today, for use
under Centari.

Swankey Devils C.C.
"Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"

 

Even though I'm by no means an expert, I'll throw my bit in here. I ALWAYS use the same line from start to finish on a job. No mixing brands or even "grades" of product. Seems to always work.

 

Yeah....plenty of bodyshops have issues where dyeback and sheets of paint fly off cars - they are the shops to stay away from because they're cutting corners and/or mis-using product. With proper prep and protocal ALL modern aftermarket paint brands/systems tend to stay on the car and hold color for quite some time. If you were at a shop where 5% of the jobs held up and the rest were fading out and blowing off the car within a couple of years then they were definitely doing more than a little bit wrong there.

 

We did exactly what the PPG reps told us to do.I will admit there is a certain degree of user error with any brand of paint, or any product for that matter. I will say, that since I've been in shops that spray DuPont, we've NEVER had any problems with holdout,color matching,adhesion,repairability, or any type of defect other than greasy ass plastic bumper covers from Kia or Toyota. When you talk about Dupont versus PPG, it's almost like a childish argument between Chevy Versus Ford. I'm not trying to start a pissing match. But, in my experience, anything PPG is friggin junk. And that system isn't much different from what it was in 1995 when I first entered this industry.
But like I said before, nothing personal, no hard feelings. It's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I've been in hack shops and good shops, and I'm no dumbass. It's just politics.

Having said that, Coaltown, if you're gonna use DuPont Paint, use DuPont primer. Good luck dude.

 

damn that yellow is obnoxious (Don in town here uses it, Squeeg has been playing salesman down here)

but I hear you can get it in colors now? Don says it works good.

 

Hmm,...I was told to stick with the PPG DP40LF and it would be fine. Was also told by the PPG dealer that you could sand it?

As far as centari's quality, I've seen paint jobs with it and it looked great, and talked with enough guys that use it and like it better than two stage? I've never used it so after all the hubub I heard i thought there must be something to it.

 

that's what i was thinking but even the DuPont guy told me to stick with the PPG epoxy primer I already had picked up, that it will work just fine.

 

You can sand it, but its gummy and clogs your paper(unless you let it cure out).You just have to make sure you don't leave streaks in it from the clogged paper digging into it. Its not meant to be sanded by any means more than to nib the dirt specs out before you paint it. One trick that I learned from my JVS instructor ,was to add 10% DT 870 (clear reducer) to it to make it dry out better and lay down smoother. That's the only reason you should need to sand it. If you need a good smooth prep surface, you should use a surfacer. DP is meant to seal prior to painting, whether its bare metal or a scuffed paint surface. I've seen a car with a Centari job spend more than ten years out in the backyard,and needed nothing more that a polish job (by me) to bring it back up. It was hardened, mind you. If it was straight enamel, it would have faded into oblivion, and be a sh*tty as cheap lacquer, minus the cracks.

 

Just so we're clear here guys,....

My question and reason to post this was in regards to what primer to use under Centari. Not "is centari any good, is PPG any good?"

I don't want this to somehow, (like so many other threads,) get off track into people's "feelings" or personal gripes, etc.

Just a simple answer will do fellas. Thanks again.

I think I might just return the PPG DP40LF and just use ALL DuPont stuff regardless of what the dupont guy told me. It always seems better to use the same product from beginning to end,....but after hearing the dupont rep's answer I was unsure.

 

Coaltown... I love Centari and have used it for 25 years and for the last 5 years or so always over DP40 or DP80. I use it because it exacty replicates vintage finishes like dulux with much more durability. I get the look your looking for and Centari will produce it perfectly. On the other hand with carefull preperation ive laid down Centari so smooth youed swear it was B/C. It will be a sad day when Dupont drops it for enviro reasons.

 

yeah i'm looking to use hardener to get the best finish.

Will I be good with using a 3M respirator with charcoal filters? I work in construction and there are a vast variety of filter systems I've used, and I have some from work for some really bad stuff,..nothing gets through those,..or do i need to use a forced air respirator/ mind you i'll be in a garage with a fresh air fan setup, not a recirculated air setup in a paint booth.

 

That's weird that the DuPont rep told you to use DP under it. For the record, I have used it under enamel. It was RM Limco, but it worked just fine. Originally, they offered Velvaseal as a sealer, but I don't think you can get it anymore. Its ready to spray straight out of the can, so its basically lacquer. Nason (cheap DuPont) offers a sealer that is the same as Velvaseal. Your 3M respirator should work fine.

In closing, I can tell you as a bodyman/painter, we have all experimented with different combos...and have either been bitten in the ass or suceeded. We all have our war stories. All I can tell you is give it a try. I'm sure you'll be fine. Just take comfort in knowing that it all turns to sh*t eventually hahahahahaha.

 

Man!

I just took a look inside the can of what was supposed to by mixed up for my by the guy at the DuPont paint dealer and its NOT what was on the friggin paint chip by any means!

It was a 1983 Chrysler "Crimson Red" which was a nice "dark" burgundy red. This guy gives me something drastically lighter!

Couldn't match a damn thing in the computer to the 1942 Ford Moselle Red that I had wanted to begin with and after almost an hour of searching came up with that color chip as the closest thing he could match, which, in the daylight (yes i took the chips to the window) it looked almost spot-on to the 1942 ford Moselle red chip I ws looking at that I had wanted.

Is this paint gonna dry much, much darker or do I need to go back with paint in hand asking to see a manager?
If so, this is BS!

Uggh,...and it wasn't cheap,..not for me at least!

 

So I just called the shop where I got the DuPont and he tells me that its an appoximate match, but that the chips fade over time. I tell him that the chip was darker, not lighter than the paint I was given. If it "faded" it becomes lighter, not darker, so why do I have a drastically lighter color here? We went round and round and he won't mix anything else up for me but will only sell me some black to darken it up some??

This is rediculous! Who the F&#$ mixes up paint and as an assistant sales manager and gives it to the customer knowing its not the same color or even close to the same color on the paint chip the customer wanted but that its lighter and brighter?? WTF!
Does NO ONE take pride in their job and their "professional" abiities anymore?

And this guy's the assistant sales manager!!