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Technical What paint brand?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by onetrickpony, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 542

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    Oh paint gurus of the mighty HAMB,

    I haven't painted a vehicle in 30 years but now that I am retired and have some time, I am going to take on painting my old truck. I know I want use a urethane base/clear but what brand? The only local supplier left in business carries PPG products. They recommended using Shopline base with the Deltron clear but they are quoting over $1200 just for the base and clear. Once I add in all the many additional things like primers, fillers, etc. It will be close to $2k.

    I don't want to cheap out. This will likely be my last hot rod and I want a long lasting, good looking, high gloss finish. I also don't want to waste time or money if there is a better value alternative.

    So what do you guys suggest?
     
  2. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,029

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    I use PPG, there are many that may chime in. You have to be careful with ShopLine base as some colors are very transparent and it takes more coats to cover. I spend about 5K on materials for most of the builds, but they are north of 100K.

    And you may have just answered your own question.
     
  3. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,850

    indyjps
    Member

    Southern polyurethane has many good reviews for clear, their website will tell ya the best base.
    I bought some recently and can't wait to spray it, blends job on my daily.

    TCP Global Restoration shop, good price a lot of standard pack colors. I shoot their urethane single stage, very happy. Rumored to be rebranded PPG, but I can't confirm that.

    Wanda, Prospray have good recommendations. I've never shot it.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  4. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,830

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Go all PPG or all the less expensive, putting a good clear cote over a cheap base doesn't make sense.
     

  5. That price is in the ballpark for a quality paint. The cheaper paints don't have as many solids in the base, and it requires more coats.
     
    onetrickpony and da34guy like this.
  6. Blake 27
    Joined: Apr 10, 2016
    Posts: 1,216

    Blake 27

    I used House of Kolor and I'm extremely happy with the results. The KD3000 Primer Surfacer/Sealer was easy to apply and sand. The Shimrin Solid Base covered well (I used matching color primer), and the Kosmic Urethane Show Clear flowed well and was easy to cut and buff. I haven't bought any since 2013, DSC02207.JPG but at the time it was competitively priced. It's been on seven years and has held up really well.
     
    -Brent- and stillrunners like this.
  7. I like PPG. I use single stage PPG Concept & forget about using clear. Of paint failure most
    happen in the clear in my opinion. I would rather polish the color than rubbing on the clear
    hoping I will not cut through it. Shoot with Concept , Less paint to shoot & less coats for trash
    to get in. (IN MY OPINION) But I know How Opinions are, so paint what you are comfortable
    shooting.
     
  8. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 10,082

    anthony myrick
    Member

    If you use your local source for paint, you can have more mixed if needed.
    A lower line base will have less pigment.
    Make sure you use the correct color sealer under it.
    I like the shop line primer (urethane) when used with the slowest hardener they have. It dries too fast where I live with the normal hardener.
    PPG has an industrial line. I use that for epoxy. Cost me around $130 ish for a 2 gallon kit.
    Shop line has at least 3 clears. A cheaper 4:1 and higher solid 4:1 and a European style 2:1.
    The cheaper clear would be fine to trim out the car or for chassis stuff.
    The higher solids would be the better choice for the outside.
    Southern Polyurethane makes great products.
    A lot of guys are using Tamco.
    I have used 5 Star epoxies and urethane primers at school. Low cost stuff. I haven’t had any issues with it.

    but for a solid color, you can go single stage.
    For a metallic, you guys can keep the single stage, I’m spraying that in base/clear.
    If your using a solid color, ask your PPG store about Defleet
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  9. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 542

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    Thanks for all the replies.

    I'm going with a bright blue metallic, so that's why I decided on base/clear instead of a single stage. I'm going to look into all the suggestions, including using the premium PPG. I can't say that cost doesn't matter, but I'd rather get this right the first time.
     
    anthony myrick likes this.
  10. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,478

    BJR
    Member

    I use PPG base, with Transtar clear.
     
  11. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 10,082

    anthony myrick
    Member

    If your car stays in the garage most of the time, is an expensive clear necessary?
    Just curious.
    Clear has a shelf life on the car.
    My OT ride I built 20 years ago stayed outside.
    At around 10 years old the clear started to die.
    High end clear.
    Now it has the popular patina look:)
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  12. I bought 2 gallons of nason base the day before yesterday, PB3 dodge intense blue, $187 a gallon. Axalta high teck, high solids clear is $129 a gallon, works great.
     
    onetrickpony likes this.
  13. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 10,082

    anthony myrick
    Member

    I’m hearing good things from Axalta.
     
  14. I'm using the hell out of it. I use the high solids clear on every spot/ blend job i do. Been using the roberlo 2-1 on my overall stuff, i like it also. Plus it's what's sold at Auto Paint Supply, which is 10 minutes away lol
     
    indyjps and anthony myrick like this.
  15. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,622

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Might consider paint from Paint Guru. I haven't seen him post on here for awhile, but very knowledgeable - & creates his own paint from the raw materials, afaik. I think that's right. He's on my 1st to call list, iffen I can ever get to paint level.

    Anthony; why the die-back on clears? Isn't the purpose to keep the paint alive n shiny while protecting it? Had it happen on more than one car - figured it was bad oem cheap-type quality paint(s)/materials. ??? The version of die-back I've seen is that the clear gets chalky, then rather opaque, then starts lifting in small flakes & eventually peeling off in sheets of various sizes. Reminds me of the die-back found in plastic 'twixt the sheets of glass in windshields n windows. What kind(material?) of clear is needed to last outside?
    TIA.
    Marcus...
     
  16. Prodiclson
    Joined: Dec 14, 2021
    Posts: 3

    Prodiclson


    In terms of refinish paints, one must keep in mind when discussing the various brands and product lines what the main goal of the paint companies is. Full disclosure, I work in the paint industry and service the vast majority of large paint companies as a raw material supplier. PPG and Axalta have the best refinish paints in terms of their respective resin development and technical capability. BASF is not bad, but Axalta and PPG have a larger market share.
    I recall hearing about PPG's Shopline or Omni line earlier in the post as a base coat with the Deltron clear. The lower brands for PPG use inferior raw materials - this means resins, pigments, etc... they do this to maintain margins at certain price points. Also, with most of them, the primary 'customer' is usually collision repair. Notable exceptions like PPG's Vibrance line, Sherwin's House of Kolor - they are primarily aimed at the custom market. The collision market has a goal of matching every OEM color while using the fewest number of toners possible. So while an OEM formulation may use a certain effect pigment, the corresponding refinish formula toner may not have the exact same effect or absorption pigment. The color match is generally better with the better lines - Envirobase for PPG opposed to the Shop-Line if that makes sense.
    Sorry for the ramble, but sometimes you do indeed get what you pay for. That is not to say the PPG's of the world aren't making money on those refinish paints - honestly they make their money there, not at the OEM factories, but the reason the Deltron and Envirobase lines cost more is because they use better materials.
     
  17. I'm at the low end of pricing. I have used ppg omni and Summit and Kirker paints. I coat all of it with House of Color's best clear. I'm getting excellent results. Most of my stuff sits outside all the time so uv protection is necessary. Every single stage that I did faded in a few years outside. It's my understanding that there is no uv protection in single stage paint. If your rod is inside 99% of the time, it will be fine. The biggest draw back to Summit and Kirker is the lack of color choices. I usually end up spending around $600 for lots of epoxy, high build primer and the color and clear. I have to block at least 3 times to get things good so I go through a lot of primer. I have watched pros use the best products and have really bad problems. Painting is a crap shoot on a normal day. :)
     
    loudbang likes this.
  18. 54chevkiwi
    Joined: Jun 28, 2020
    Posts: 332

    54chevkiwi

    $2000 is pretty cheap. Isnt inflation an ass after 30 years, everything else is more expensive now than the good old days too..

    anyway, lifetime professional ppg user here, but do NOT use shopline. The price by the tin looks appealing, but by the time youve bought groundcoat and enough paint for coverage youll have so much film build... and more money in it that you would if you just paid for deltron b/c .. youll buy less deltron.

    Of course, many other pros may disagree and have had no problems with it, but add this to your pros/cons list anyway.
    A backyard porsche resto shop i worked at got that in a tan brown to do a porsche and a red to paint a jeep, red sucks for coverage anyway over anything other than dark grey, but it was like pisswater, he wouldnt listen to me then blamed ME when he didnt buy enough for coverage, or buy a groundcoat and hadto do the job over
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  19. 54chevkiwi
    Joined: Jun 28, 2020
    Posts: 332

    54chevkiwi

    SPI is ABSOLUTELY the real deal too !
     
    da34guy, Just Gary and klleetrucking like this.
  20. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,622

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hey, Por;
    Thanks for the info. Don't mind you expounding on tech. I maybe can't use it/understand it right away, but it's always useful & never wasted. Anymore info on how to keep clear from dying? Other than always inside or not using it? I've had OEMs that lasted 15+ going on near 20 w/o fading/chalking/peeling. Don't know why. ??? Certain kind of hardener, baking, brand??? TIA.
    Marcus...
     
  21. I'm a catalyzed urethane base coat clear coat fanatic. I LOVE this stuff. You won't be disappointed with your choice. Any good brand is fine, I haven't had any problems with any brand sold by my paint store. PPG is great.

    For guys wanting the dead flat primer look with urethane durability, check out Summit Racing's Satin clear. It says satin but it is true dead flat with all the benefits of catalyzed urethane toughness. And at $62 (need $30 hardener too, but they all do), it is the hands-down bargain of the century in the paint world.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...AoSDnf9VUrSoLjzumS4DZPrUxyOjCfBcaAp9lEALw_wcB
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2021
  22. Prodiclson
    Joined: Dec 14, 2021
    Posts: 3

    Prodiclson

    Also, for you guys that want to add that 'ceramic' type clear - Look up companies like Ceramic Pro, Element 119, Rustoleum Wipe line... Look for something that is solvent based. The chemistry behind those clears (polysilazanes for those more technically savvy) so far does not work in water based formulas since the polysilazane resins react with moisture to cure. To call it a true ceramic is misleading, as to get to the ceramic phase you need to heat the materials to near 500'C to obtain this, but it can get really hard (about 4-5H) even in ambient temp cure if the formulation is catalyzed. An easy way to tell if it is polysilazane based is the smell. As those resins cure, they evolve ammonia and you can smell it. The polysilazanes are UV transparent, so the formulations typically contain some UV absorbers and vary brand / company even if the base resin package is identical.
    This chemistry is also used in other familiar brands like Cerakote, Jet Hot and the like....
    They are not as hydrophobic as say a polysilane or polysiloxane (think rain-x) but the effect is much longer lasting
     
  23. pbr40
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 831

    pbr40
    Member
    from NW Indiana

    Tamco! Best bang for the buck
     
  24. Am I the only one using Dupont ChromaBase paint ? I painted my flamed Ford 29 years ago , no fading cracking and holds it's gloss . EFFECTS.jpg
     
    Elcohaulic and jimgoetz like this.
  25. Prodiclson
    Joined: Dec 14, 2021
    Posts: 3

    Prodiclson

    Chromabase is now an Axalta brand - if you're using DuPont, it must be a pretty old can ;-)
     
  26. hemihotrod66
    Joined: May 5, 2019
    Posts: 606

    hemihotrod66
    Member

    Used House of Kolor on mine and it has held well... Over ten years now....It is a good idea to get your paint with same batch numbers.....
     
  27. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 542

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    From what I understand, all paints have changed greatly over the last decade, no matter what the brand. The EPA has hit the paint and chemical industry hard.
     

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