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Technical welding secrets

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sunbeam, May 13, 2020.

  1. Perhaps some of you guys should think of welders like your Doctors as you might be more familiar with those.

    All doctors went to medical school.
    The podiatrist, urologist, proctologist, (all Drs) are not equally skillful in oral surgery or cardiology (also doctors). Then you have the endocrinologist and neurosurgeon also doctors and some may have even gone to the same medical school.
    Wouldn’t you be pissed off if the podiatrist had go at your pecker, ticker or brain? If you’re proctologist what’s to do something in your mouth I’m guessing there’s confusion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    57JoeFoMoPar and RidgeRunner like this.
  2. dirt t
    Joined: Mar 20, 2007
    Posts: 4,644

    dirt t
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Kingman,AZ
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club

    I to took a TIG class at the local collage.
    He handed me a gas torch
    What i learned is with gas yor instinct is to back torch off for less heat, DON'T do it with a tig torch.
     
    saltflats likes this.
  3. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,102

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    True welding story. Back about 1974, the crew I worked with was building a water tower in Aurora, IL. I was about 130 ' in the air welding overhead in a pretty strong wind that kept changing direction. I was burning in the first pass using E6010 and the wind caught a hot chunk of mill scale and it managed to get behind my hood and safety glasses. The damned thing burned itself into my eyeball. Closest emergency center was right up the street so the boss took me there. The only doctor on site was an OB-GYN and he'd never had to deal with anything like the problem I had. He had my boss hold my head while he took a giant size hypodermic needle loaded with a saline solution to flood my eyeball. Then he took the needle and scraped the chunk of mill scale out. I don't believe I've ever been so nervous.
     
  4. ^^^That just gave me chills^^
     
    LWEL9226 likes this.
  5. ol'stinky
    Joined: Oct 3, 2010
    Posts: 340

    ol'stinky
    Member
    from New Jersey

    I am NOT a welder, although my job entails welding. I only do, MIG welding, but I have an ICAR welding certification (for collision work). I am always surprised at how poorly some of my fellow bodyman weld. Maybe because we always need to grind them down, they don't feel it's important. I've seen guys twice my age do some welds I would be ashamed of. But I watched them do it and I saw one thing that is pretty consistent with bad welders. This really only applies to MIG.... Use TWO hands on the gun. That's the best tip I have. Trying to weld with one hand will make your welds a shaky inconsistent mess. I guess maybe that could be applied to stick welding too, but it's been over a decade since I did that so I certainly can't pretend to know about it.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  6. rjgideon
    Joined: Sep 12, 2005
    Posts: 527

    rjgideon
    Member

    Speaking of better welding helmets, I just got a new one. My old one is a auto-darkening Lincoln Electric from Home Depot, but I swear it was no better than the Harbor Freight model. I kept getting flashed even after setting it out in the sun to charge the battery.

    Anyway, I was ready to pony up the dough for a 3M Speedglas, but I was checking out Amazon and found this YESWELDER helmet with a big viewing area and it had good reviews. I got it yesterday and went out into the garage to check it out last night with a few tacks and some short beads. This thing is amazing. It has a huge viewing area and I was actually able to see my welds and the surrounding material so much better. I don't know how well it will hold up, but I'm excited about getting out and doing some more welding now.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M5WKCYX/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_Kev4Eb2PV90CV
     
    HuskerNation likes this.
  7. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,499

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Years ago I bought an expensive, Swiss made Optrel helmet. Unknown to me, these helmets work by having a rechargeable battery inside, and when that died after a few years, the helmet stopped working.
    The thing is designed to be disposable as the battery is potted into the electronics under the glass.
    I tried carefully digging it out but failed.

    From now on it's cheap (offshore) but decent auto dimming helmets for me.
    Heck, that Optrel was an offshore unit too!
     
  8. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 249

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    Dang that helmet looks pretty impressive & it’s on sale too!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  9. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,079

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    I am no expert and at high school preferred woodwork to metal work, but later realised that was because of the quality of the metal work teachers...
    Welding requires IMHO, decent eye sight, lots of light on the job and no light behind the helmet.
    I have a towel cover that blocks out any light coming from behind when I weld, which has been about the best home found secret I can share.
    This especially helpful when welding outside in day light.
     
    Beanscoot likes this.
  10. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 249

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    I definitely understand your point & humor but don’t discredit a doctor being able to do that which is out of their field. Just like any field, those who are exceptional are truly exceptional and often in more than one thing.

    My wife is a psychiatrist who works exclusively in the hospital but in our town of 100k people. She’s been the one to diagnose rare diseases/infections in at least 6 people over the last couple years and truly saved these peoples lives. The internal medicine doctors or infectious disease docs should have been the ones to diagnose those as it’s their field but they were unable. The funniest part is when they would get the exact same diagnosis from Mayo Clinic that my wife gave them.... the psychiatrist was right!

    Not that I want my wife checking my prostate or stitching me up but..... she’s a keeper!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  11. SEAAIRE354
    Joined: Sep 7, 2015
    Posts: 183

    SEAAIRE354
    Member

    Well speaking of doctors and skills
    , my Welding instructor would tell a story about a surgeon who came and wanted to be thought how to weld and figured with his vision and steady hand he should be an incredible welder. That was not the case. He said that the guy was practically untraceable. Then he said “ you get some kid from Tobacco Road that knows nothing about nothing and can lay down stacks of dimes all day”


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  12. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,302

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    I absolutely suck at welding. Took a course in HS back in the 60's with little results. After HS working with my old man I was able to pick up a few hints at welding but I still suck. But I don't give up. Bought a welder from Harbor Freight and do a lot of practice with it. Sometimes I even try something I'm going to put on a car. If I have something critical I take the part into town where I have a great welder to do it for me. Still not giving up though.
     
  13. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 1,063

    mickeyc
    Member

    I am a firm believer that welders with really nice
    hand writing are able to make much nicer welds.
    my hand writing is terrible and always has been.
    my welds are solid and properly laid in. They do
    look ok, but lack the really nice appearance of others.
    Having fit for many welders over the years I made a
    point of noticing the handwriting of the welders that
    made "pretty" welds. Better writing better appearing
    welds. I have gotten to the point of making better
    appearing welds with my mig machine. I think it may
    be a hand eye coordination matter.
     
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  14. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 1,063

    mickeyc
    Member

    Alan you state that you were using 610 on the building
    of a water tower. It really surprises me that you were using 6010 rods on a new steel structure. I have worked on many similar structures including a water tower.
    The welds were all 7018 lo highs.
     
  15. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,102

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    6010 was the root pass. After power brushing the seam, we welded the outside with 7018 then went inside, arc gouged the seam to clean metal and welded the inside with 7018. Every joint was X-rayed as was 10 % of the horizontal and vertical seams. Any porosity or inclusions required gouging out the defective weld, re-welding and X-raying the new weld and 10 feet either side of the new weld. We had to be good because the company was paying us union scale in whatever local we were in plus footage. The company had standard welding times for every weld we made on any thickness of iron in any given position. If they said we should be able to weld 10 feet of 1/2" iron overhead in 2 hours and we did it in an hour, we made double time for that weld. Having to cut out bad welds cost both the company and the welders money. The company's unofficial motto was, " If you can't get it, you can't stay " and I was there a hell of a long time.
     
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  16. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,499

    Beanscoot
    Member

    "I am a firm believer that welders with really nice
    hand writing are able to make much nicer welds."

    That's a really interesting thought, Mickey. It does make a lot of sense, and is a good reason to teach hand writing in school.

    I was amazed when working with demolition lumber from old houses when I saw the beautiful penmanship from the old carpenters, when simply writing out an address, or similar mundane phrase, on a piece of lumber.
     
  17. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 975

    X-cpe

    Fine motor control. That's why they start you out in first grade with a big pencil and wide lined paper. You learn gross movement and then refine it. Used the same principle to teach myself to use my left hand.
    You may be on to something. As I have aged my handwriting has deteriorated and I have noticed that my welds don't look as good either. I used to blame it on not getting both hands to shake at the same speed.
     
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  18. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,016

    Marty Strode
    Member

    My handwriting is terrible, one teacher compared it to a baby chicken walking across the paper, after stepping in an ink well. I would rather weld than write, anyway. IMG_0299.JPG
     
  19. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,905

    Paul
    Editor

    Three little tips,
    Keep the helmet clean and dry,
    If it's not on my head it's in the box.
    Use a bicycle type headlight attached to the helmet
    With fresh batteries to light the work
    Use magnifying lens
    I'm using 1.50 lenses and reading glasses on
    So I can see when I flip the hood up too

    IMG_20200611_205906.jpg IMG_20200611_205916.jpg IMG_20200611_210015.jpg
     
    49ratfink likes this.
  20. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,070

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Well, there goes that theory! Lol ! Nice welds!








    Bones
     
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  21. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,016

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Paul, looks like you have every accessory but a radio on that helmet.
     
    Paul likes this.
  22. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,905

    Paul
    Editor

    I can use all the help I can get.
    Filtered air under the hood would be nice.
     
  23. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 1,063

    mickeyc
    Member

    I understand the process you were using. I worked for
    C. B. and I for an extended time. Was with them when the company got sold and a new name was used. Aptim
    was the new name. I hated that name! It sounded like
    something a woman would take for cramps to me. I worked with a group of Boiler Makers doing rigging support for the welders assembling a new steam dome on a nuclear reactor at Calvert Cliffs Maryland. Those welders were on a pay plan similar to the system you
    described. They rolled and woe be it if someone caused
    a delay. The interesting part to me was the fact that a
    multi million dollar automated system kept producing
    inclusions in the weld. It was a 6 inch thick plus the bevel seam. actually very similar to tank welds but much thicker. The culprit was the reactor was not
    absolutely round and the auto machine was not able
    self adjust for the variance. Those Boiler Makers worked around the clock in shifts for several days
    and did not have even one inclusion appear in an xray.
    It was impressive to me.
     
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  24. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 1,063

    mickeyc
    Member

    Marty, I take your point. I did not mean to imply a person has to have a fine writing hand to produce
    excellent welds. I just noticed through the years some
    guys that had really nice writing skills made exceptional
    appearing welds. I just think there is some correlation
    between the two. Your welds are top notch in appearance and surely quality as well. Nicely done Sir.
     
  25. j hansen
    Joined: Dec 22, 2012
    Posts: 1,612

    j hansen
    Member
    from sweden

    Light,,,yes.
    Magnifying lens,,,,yes Skärmavbild 2020-06-12 kl. 09.53.54.png
     
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  26. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,905

    Paul
    Editor

    Marty, can you tell us about this weld?
    What machine, settings, tungsten, filler rod, anything?
     
  27. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,016

    Marty Strode
    Member

    I would rather be decent at welding, than write like Richard Petty. King Richard the most beautiful signature
    I have 2 tig welders, a Lincoln 300, that I bought new in '76, and an old Miller Gold Star that I gave $700 for around 2003. I used the Miller, when welding the 1/4" thick brackets on a .250 wall front axle. When welding steel, anything thicker than 1/8 ", I use a 3/32, 2% tungsten, and a gas lens (shown). The screen, collimates the gas, allowing the tungsten to protrude further out of the cup, to reach into corners, without contamination. As far as filler rod, that weld was done with 1/16, ER 70S-2. As far a setting, unless I am butt welding 1/16 steel, I rarely switch the machine off of the middle setting, that has max amps of 225. I adjust the rheostat, to to a range that makes the pedal comfortable, for the various metal thickness. Both of my machines are big, heavy, and old, but I find them reliable. The machines with pulse, make it easy, almost like cheating ! I select filler rod size, to match the size of weld I want to achieve. The last bracket shown, was welded with .045 filler, the tube was .065 wall, and the mounting plate was 10 ga .134 thick. IMG_4981.JPG IMG_4983.JPG IMG_4982.JPG IMG_6207.JPG
     
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  28. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,905

    Paul
    Editor

    Thanks Marty, that's very helpful!
     
  29. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,183

    6sally6
    Member

    Welder story time:
    I went thru a 4 year apprenticeship at a federal navy yard. Back then....we used stick welding for nearly everything. Pipe and structural. No doubt I have welded MILES of weld beads while working on submarines. The hulls in subs are several inches thick and welded them ALL with 110-18 low Hydrogen rods. ALL welds were X-Ray'd. (If you were on a submarine you would want nothing less!) You haven't lived until you've welded overhead with 5/32" rods.
    Finally got promoted to nuclear pipe welder so that was 'mostly' stainless steel pipe we TIG'ed. Much better but.......a lot of that was welded in a mirror! (very humbling)
    Now days.......I doubt these kids can even stick weld anything. The industry has really changed for the better.
    Anyway...I don't even own a welding machine now!
    I've had PLENTY of smoke/burns/flash/shocks/blisters/ringing ears/frost bite/heat exhaustion/galvanize poisoning/wet drawers/wet socks/dirty faces/dirty neck/black boogers/burnt shirts/burnt jeans to last me for a long while.
    Have you ever been welding on the inside of a ballast tank....standing on a 4" I-beam....holding on with one hand on a 3" angle...stick welding with the other hand......40' feet up, when a chunk of hot slag pops out and lands on the tongue of your boot?! Shield down(dark as night is an under statement).....stinger in one hand....holding on for dear life with the other hand... foot literally on fire!....no place to sit down and take your burning boot off?!
    Now you know WHY I have had enough welding to do me for a life time!!;)
    jus say'in
    6sally6
     
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  30. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,016

    Marty Strode
    Member

    After a short course in welding (stick of course) I had hoped to land a job in the shipyard in Portland, but there weren't any openings. All three of my older Brothers worked at the Freightliner Truck Plant, and I landed a job there, bucking rivets, building cabs. The fast track to top pay, was to be a welder, so I spent my break times, practicing aluminum wire welding. When the big boss found out, they gave me a test, and promoted me to welding. While there,(9-1/2 years) I learned all phases of MIG and TIG. From your experiences, it sounds like I got lucky.
     

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