I see a lot of post on the HAMB about welding on frames. Welding cross members and or motor mounts. I can weld but am far from being an expert and don’t think my skills are up to welding on a frame. I’ve had stuff welded on big truck frames before, and DOT requires that type of welding be done by licensed or certified welders, there’s a lot to be know, such as nothing smaller then 5/8 plate. Most welders I’ve talked to say they only use LO-HI or Low Hydrogen rod for frame welding. Are car frames the same metal as big trucks and is that the type of welding rod most here would recommend?
a 7018 is a nice rod to use real easy to control and such...I think the most common thing used is a wire feeder though since they are easy to use and dont leave any slag if you have gas. Not sure where you got the 5/8ths from or if thats just a common practice on the "big trucks" but .120 wall tubing seems to be the norm for frames
7018 is a reverse polarity rod, and many AC stick welders are not set up to use that. I have built numerous frames using an old AC Lincoln stick welder, and 6013 is a very good, clean burning rod for 90% of what you do, and if you are really keen about penetration, 6011 is a better penetrating rod but not as "clean" to weld with. Do not buy a 110 volt mig---they simply don't have enough power for frame and chassis welds. If you are going to buy a mig, get a 220 volt unit, with the ability to run either.035 flux core wire or .023 wire with a shielding gas. and please, go to a community college or the equivalent and take a welding course, before practicing your welding on something that can kill you (or even worse, ME) when the weld fails.
7018 is "easy" - not for a beginner - no way. 7018 is a short arc rod that requires skill and practice. IMHO. "easy" rod would be 7024 - we used to call that "idiot stick" - good for FLAT postion only.
I agree with you HemiRambler, its not easy at all for someone who has never done it! And brian, not saying you cannot weld, but imo any of the 60 series rods burn way to fast and violent for a novice! I went to welding school for a year and i would not feel comfortable using that rod right now, granted i have not ran a stick in a couple of years.
I learned to weld using 6013 and 6011. To me, it was easy because I had never used anything else. I have used 7024 (we call it "farmers rod") and yes, it is an easy rod to use. Away back in the day, I had to qualify for my CWB (Canadian Welding Bureau) cerificate.
I used to work at Monroe Truck Equipment. They are the guys that built the tandom axle state dump/snow plow trucks for many states, citys, countys and large companies. I can tell you for sure there are a huge amount of trucks running around out there with a lot less the 5/8" plate. Most plating is in the order of 1/4" on big trucks where the original frame thickness is around 1/4". Also, I don't believe there was a stick welder in the house when I was there, around 13 years ago. The only stick welders that were there were on the portable road trucks. Everything was migged. Wire mostly used was .045 and .060 with gas, not flux core. It was a big opperation with over 300 workers on the floor, but is now considerably smaller. Gene
Oh Shit---I've given away my age!!! (yes, it was 1965 when I took my welding courses)---Of course, I've been building frames and such for 43 years now. And yes, your right---Not to many 18 wheelers running around out there with plate thicker than 3/8" anywhere on the chassis.
Ok the first two numbers are the tensle stranth of the weld 60 means 60,000 the 70 means 70,000 lbs. THe 3rd number is position 1 means virtical over head all positions. 2 means flat welds only.
Simplest method of welding DCEN Put the rod in the ground clamp, I'd wear gloves too, its probably dangerous, and if you have a sketchy ground clamp it'd probably be easy to kill yourself somehow, so try at your own risk. 7018 is a pretty easy rod to get used to, no whipping like a 6010 or something like that. Metal has to be pretty clean to make a decent bead though. I've used 7024 to weld verticle on stuff, but it turns out pretty gobby and probably wouldn't be the best thing to go with, but its possibly the easiest and smoothest rod to weld with horizontally (Better than 7018 in my opinion). 6013 is sort of a farmers rod, it'll strike an arc on just about anything but burns up pretty fast. It takes a while to get used to though, sorta close to flux cored welding in my opinion, just a little bit higher quality. I've also seen some people manage to screw up the setting on their welders for some rods. 7018 won't stick as much if you run it between 105-115, and a 6013 should be somewhere in between 80-90.
Farmer rod would be E6011, burns through rust, grease, and spray chemical corrosion. E7024 rod is damn near idiot friendly, but only on a flat weld. Practice up with your Hobart mig, make sure the liner, rollers, wire, tips, consumables are clean. That machine will help you make easy tack welds, and pretty finish welds as you become more familiar with it. MIG welds don't like trash---rust, grease, a pleasant breeze. Use ER70S-6 wire for the dirtiest cleaned up welding jobs----more silicon to carry out trash. Save the stick for tack welds, and the chisel plow that still needs a few more years to pay for itself.
Hey brian, i was looking thru my rod catalog and it says 6011 is good for small machines and sheet metal, ive personally only used 6010, and to me it was pretty wicked, thats why i said that, and i just went and ran some beads with 7018, let me tell you what.. i need to go back to school!!
and please, go to a community college or the equivalent and take a welding course, Thats funny! I just signed up for a welding class at the placer Adult school...
I use 7018 on heavy duty welds. When I was a heavy equipment mechanic that was about all that was used. I found that 7014 works well for general welding , it wlds similar to 6013 but doesn't seem to splater as much. The 7014 will run on DC or AC. OLD HEMI
Most semi truck frames are made of high carbon steel and possibly heat treated and stress relieved. A good many of them are also made of heat treated Aluminum. Any of these types of frames are not designed to be welded on and in most cases they will have warning labels posted all over on them saying so. Some will also be affected simply by drilling holes in the flanges on the frames. Cars typically have a mild steel frame, and are not affected as much by welding on them. If you look over any large truck frame, you'll see that virtually all of the crossmembers and mounts are riveted to the frame rails, not welded. On a car, most of that stuff is welded directly to the frame.
Had to read some more previous answers. E7018 rod is excellent for overhead welding on DC reverse polarity! In the right hands, even on vertical and overhead welds, the slag will lay out almost like 7024 on a clean flat weld. If I remember correctly, you want to have a sacrificial scrap to "warm up" E7018 for whatever job. They weld great, but have a tendency to want to stick on startup. Pick out rod core diameter on sticks like you pick out welding wire. With wire, I've burned in a bunch of miles of ER70S-3 .035 wire. The rod or wire diameter is determined largely by the metal thickness that needs to be welded. Kinda like the gauge of wire you use to wire up a light, more resistance or metal thickness to weld up, larger welding wire or rod. MIG gas, use 75/25 mix for most jobs. Others demand mix changes, and even tri-mix gasses. Truck frames today, over the road trucks are on primarily 1/4 steel, single frame. Severe service trucks, last 10 years on Pete mixer chassis, 5/16" doubled frame. If you want heavier, buy it, or have a truck specialty shop fab it for you. Today's specialty shops have change to MIG for the most part.
How many people have AC welders and wish they could have a smoother DC welder? Would it help anybody if I show how I made mine into a DC welder for just a few dollars? I have an old 1967 Marquette AC welder that I bought new, and have used for many years. Back in the early 1980's I made my own full wave rectifier for it so I could make smooth welds on DC. After many years of use I have had to replace one of the heavy duty diodes. While I was at it I decided to make a heavier-duty version of the one that had served me so well for many years. I took pictures of the new one (rectifier) I just finished. I was wondering if I should take the time to download the pics and explain how to make one really really cheap. I thought that maybe everyone but me already had a DC welder, but if there are some others that DO have an AC welder and want to turn it into a much smoother DC welder for cheap, let me know and I'll put together the pics and describe how I did mine. **************************** I often use 7014, and 6013 - easy welding and smooth beads. I like the 7014 for vertical welds. The only drawback is a lot of slag, but I think that may be what helps hold the bead while molten on a vertical weld and makes it a good vertical-up rod. I have never had a good time with 7018 I don't know why. My friends swear by them. Maybe the friends who have them stock a rod thats too big for my projects... that could be it. The 6011 rods- deep penetrating and lots of spatter. Easy to bite too deep or to undercut too easily. they have to be "stitched" or constantly worked around in order to keep the arc going correctly, SO I save them for the times I need a deep penetrating rod, and am afraid to use them on a frame where an undercut could make an "easy fracture" line. I only use the 6011 when there is a lot of thick metal, or if I have had to grind back a questionable weld and need to fill and melt back in between other fillet welds. It does a great job of burning in deep and re-joining a fillet weld where you ground out some of the old weld material. I am a long time amateur welder so don't take any of this as gospel, just a little info on what works for me.
Welded quite a bit with a 6012 yesterday, done a few multipasses. Once you get used to them their a pretty smooth rod, like a small 7018 or something. I run mine on DC at about 85. You have to keep a pretty good arc length going or else they'll stick, and sometimes there'll be a big slag inclusion wherever you start welding.
Funny this thread came up. I am putting the finishing touches on my frame rails hopefully this afternoon. I built them out of 2x5 tubing .120 waal thickness. I pie cut the fronts and wedged them down to mate to original model a frame horns and lowered crossmember. I V'd out the butt welds and used 1/8" 6011 rod for a root pass. After some cleanup grinding I went back with a 5/32" 7018 rod for the cover pass. I am by far no expert and it was my first time running 7018, but I think they turned out pretty nice. I will grind all welds smooth, metalfinish and paint. I'll post pics when I can take some later this evening. Hopefully I am not being overconfident and everyone else thinks they look good too.
some one wrote not to use a 110 mig for framing. is frame wall thickness is 0.120 it is well within the range of a millermatic 1/8 inch? the newest millermatic can weld 3/16 (and 1/4 inch when really pushing) so why not use it for a frame?
'zactly. My Millermatic 135 does pretty decent on 1/4" stuff if you prep it right, go slow. 0.120" no problem. It also burns every bit as hot as my Dad's 220V Century MIG that's about 12 years old. There are some brackets & misc. fixtures made of 1/4" and sometimes 5/16" that we weld to frames, so then the 110V welders start to get questionable. Thing is, you better know what you're doing when welding on mission-critical components of your car. Truck frames are metallurgically different (heat-treated, etc), so yes, it does take some special knowledge beyond hot rod welding to work on them... and that's a lot of why they have the special cert's to do so.
Ditto that. I also have an AC welder (Lincoln buzz box) works fine but I'd like to see how you converted to DC.
If you're using a smaller welder, just preheat more. In fact, you should be preheating anyhow on a frame. Bevel and preheat things and you're golden. We run a LOT of 7018 at work. I build railroad track grinding equipment, and I love stick welding, so it works out well.
HELL YES! POST THE INFO. in my experience 7018 is for new and clean metal,6011 is used for field repairs on "contaminated surfaces" and bites hard, 6013 is for "contaminated surfaces" with less bite ex: shipping container repair. all good rod for their application. solid core mig is great for body panels and heavier fab work.
I posted a few pics and info about AC welding on another thread. I just ran into this one by accident. I don't usually bump into old posts unless I am searching for something. A PM usually is best if there are questions. CHEAP TECH AC WELDER something something.. I hope this link works... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236155&highlight=cheap+tech+ac
I've noticed that 7018 is more difficult to maintain a stable arc on rainy, high humidity days than on hot, dry days. I have learned that pre-heating the rods under a Halogen lamp for at least an hour before making the weld helps immeasureably. (a rod oven would make a nice X-mas or B-day gift!) I've also noticed that pipeline weldors use a 6010 electrode for their root (first) pass, then grind this pass clean (to prevent slag inclusions) then continue with subsequent passes of 7018 to fill the "V". Seems like they lower the amperage to complete the cap weld. My observations only. Anyone out there with better advice - should come directly from the "horse's mouth"!
They work better when dry because they are a low hydrogen rod, and hate moisture. Using 6010 for a root pass on pipe welding is common. Also common is TIG welding the root pass.
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