WARNING OT POST sorry need help w/ new car purchase

Lemmie get the sorry for the OT post outta the way first of all and RYAN if it rubs ya wrong like 80 grit against yer skin , i guess delete it but i just need some help and advice .
The family NEEDS a new vehicle and we choose the 2005 jeep unlimited rubicon .But how do you get the BEST deal .It used to be if you were paying cash you got a better deal . I feel like i am always talking to jerry lundergaurd from fargo everythime i speak to these salesmen .No i dont want the truecoat LOL.
Anybody have and secrets to share on getting the best bang for the buck and negotiation tactics ?
We do not wish to get rid of our classic/old rides instead add this to the heard
Seeing how i have not bought a NEW vehicle in over 25 years for a car dealer , any helpful hints would be great .
I did do the online price point thing and they show what the dealer invoice is , but it seems some dealer have the attitude here is the price you don't want to pay somebody else will .
THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP .

 

i usually spend as much of their time as possible. which also means a lot of your time. make them have some time in me. if they wont come down, i tell em i dont need it, want it, afford it, whatever. act like i dont care.

im in a small town though. every sale counts here. a big area, it might not work in.

trey

 

If it's your family that needs a new ride, the best way to get a good deal is to scratch the Ribicon and lean towards the Caravan. Seriously, those Jeeps with that package are WAAAAY over priced, and not roomy at all, of couse I don't know your finacial or family situation, just MHO.

We have two kids with three on the way(yes, another little 1Load...no pun intended)and we just bought an 05' Magnum. Very rommy and very resonable for what all you get standard on it. Thats just my two centavo's.

 

THANKS TREY ,
Funny how the new car dealers want to bump up the price of the first tank of gas on your new car and then act like they are doin you a favor .Or sell you a block heater in arizona , or floor mats for silly money .I even asked one salesperson do you know what a block heater is ? responce "something we charge 150 more dollars for ".
Thanks again for the helpful hints on this frustrating purchase .
now i know why i like dealing w/ second hand sales VS a new car dealer .

 

personally, we dont buy anything new anymore. a warranty is nice, but resale value isnt. but if you have your heart set on that one vehicle, dont let anyone tell you different. maybe a newer used cherokee, or liberty would work?

trey

 

We went car shopping in Dec. You are 100% correct about the attitude of the salesmen, but I think it comes from above them. We went to several dealers because we were looking for a specific car too, got pissed and walked out of more then one! All they are interested in is selling as many cars as possible for as much cash as they can get.

We ended up getting an "exucitive program car". It was a year old and had 5,000 miles on it. Came in at almost $10,000 less then a currect year copy of the same car, no trade in.

Over all it wasn't a very pleasant experance, esspecially when you spend that kind of money, it should at least be fun for a little while. Like you, its been 15 years since we bought a new car. We ended up financing this one at a real 2,9% for 5 years. Ben a long time since I've made car payments, still sucks. Keep looking for a dealer until you find one that is at least makes you feel like they want your business. Devolope the additude that you don't need to buy a car from that dealer, they have to make you want to buy from them. Your probably going to pay the same price anyway. Gene

 

Scooter, go to Edmunds.com and get thier "TMV" (True Market Value) report, read thier reviews, learn all you can about the vehicle, then take the TMV to your dealer, TELL him what you want and what you'll pay, if they say no, simply get up and leave, there's more than one dealer you can shop with. I just did this on my wife's new car, 2004 Mazda 6S, took my TMV to the dealership, let them know that I knew what the car was worth and what I was willing to pay them for it, no bullshit "lemme see what my sales manager has to say" I got the car, out the door for 4K less than blue book, Edmunds is a Godsend
Good Luck
SKip

 

If you can find anybody that works for DaimlerChrysler (not a delaer, but the actual corporation), they can probably get you a program number that will get you a decent discount, and it'll be a no-haggle price. A couple years ago, every employee could get six or so of those numbers each year, and give them out to anybody they wanted, and one number per year that gave the friend the same price that an employee (like a line worker or an engineer in Detroit) would get, and that was always the lowest price going (probably $3-4K off a Wrangler's sticker price.) Don't know if the program is still the same now, but it's worth looking into.

In general, dealer-installed options are overpriced- undercoat, gas, non-factory bedliners- you can always find better prices elsewhere on that shit, or buy it later on.

 

SEE, THIS IS YET ANOTHER REASON THE HAMB IS SO GREAT THANKS ALL !

skippy edmunds is a great tip

I really do not have to many buddies who deal in this subject to ask ya all are a big help, thanks again

 

Take an hour or two and look over this site for some interesting reading. It does have some really good FREE advice as to the insights of the auto buying game.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/


I make the kids all read this site when they get the urge to buy a car.
Good Luck....H

 

Gotta post here...

We had a baby last year and made the jump to a larger Ford Explorer type thing. Knowing that buying a new(or used) car from a dealership was one of my worst nightmares, we decided to look at an alternative. What we found was CARMAX.



They sell mostly used vehicles that are mostly lease returns and are usually no older than about 0-4 years old. They are a NO HAGGLE outfit. There car lots are clearly laid out and the cars all have a window sticker with a fixed price. You can also search their inventory on line. It's updated ever 24 hrs so it's always fresh.. If you find something from their inventory that happens to be at another location/state they will ship it out for you for $100.

The only interaction with a salesperson is when you first walk in .... they explain how it al works and then they let you browse. If you need help or want to test drive you simply give a holler and someone will help you. The wife and I walked in on a Sunday at noon and were out the door with a new car by 3pm.... this includes the time we took walking around the lot, the test drive, the trade in process, and the financing part. No pressure what so ever. It was a cake walk.

They even offered to buy our car straight out regardless of whether or not we were purchasing one of theirs. They basically sat me down and looked up the car on Kelly's Blue book and gave me about $200 over the BB value. The financing was all done over the internet. We entered some basic financial info and they hit the button and within about 15 minutes they showed us the financing options with just about every major company.


I was soooo blown away by the whole procedure that I swear I will NEVER NEVER EVER buy another car from anyone else.



Check them out: www.carmax.com


(NO Idon'twork for them. I just believe in giving praise to companies that treat their customers well and offer a quality products)

 

I work for a Chrysler/Jeep dealer the best price is the greenslip program which is given to Chrysler employees.This will save you quite a bit of money.You can still find some people who are willing to give their number up especially for a small bird dog.More than likley the new car manager would have a list of people he could get one from.They have cracked down on this alot and its harder to get them than it use to be.Next is friends and family plan I believe this is gonna be the easiest not near the savings as a greeslip.Also they have some discounts that are offered to ex military.
Next a Jeep Wrangler limited is not the most family orienated vech.I personally think the new Grand Cheokee with the HEMI is the way to go if you want a Jeep.A Wrangler is a popular vehicle and with spring comin their gonna sell well so deals are not gonna be as easy to get on this model.
Financing now is a whole nother story.Use their money save yours loan rates are as low as ever.
As big as the HAMB network is I can not believe we do not have any Chrysler employees that cn supply you with a geenslip.I hope this helps you.
Remember the best deal is gonna be on the iron that aint movin and that is usaully aint a Wrangler.
Later Shoe
ps. please pardon the typos and the spelling as my keyboard is going out on my laptop.

 

AGAIN THANKS FOR THE HELPFUL HINTs YA ALL ..
On the subject of the wrangler not being a family friendly vehicle , I would agree the the regular wrangler is a bit small .But i have one child and i am also getting the unlimited which is the streched version of the wrangler so you do get a bit more room NOT MUCH but some additional .If you saw what i was using for a daily driver in comparison the 05 jeep unlimited/rubicon is a new luxury vehicle in comparison .I will take another look at the grand and liberty line , but having to use a sawzall for top removal is kinda a bummer .Also i hear people tell thet the jeep get crap milage , well i am getting 4-6 a gal w/ the truck i am driving now so 18 is a step up .
After reading the Pm's and the thread looks like i have a bit more work still to do .
I also looked at dodge ,ford, gmc, chevy o5 trucks and HERE they would run me over 45K .
It kills me to think of the new car costs and just how many hotrods i could buy for the same money .
thanks again i know i keep sayin the thanks , but ya all do not know just how much this is help us all out .

 

If you are not set on a brand new car, I have bought the last two family vehicles from Hertz rental cars. They usually have about 20,000 miles on them and they keep a complete record on everything that has happened to the car. What I like about them is the price is on the windshield and there is no haggling.
I have had excellent results in dealing with them. There should be one in your neck of the woods.

 

I bought a car from Carmax and would not do it again.

They don't haggle - their prices are on the high side, I had to take the truck back 6 times to get the brakes done correctly while it was under its 30 day warranty period. They tried to screw me everyway they could - they even put on one receipt that the rotors were passed tolerances, but they still turned them. No wonder they still vibrate?

Buy used one or two years old from an indivdual. You get to see the persons house and see how they keep up with thier stuff.

You may even still get a warranty if the car is under the miles. You can always purchase additional warranty from the dealer.

If you buy from dealer - have your price in your mind, finance it through someone other than them. Talk final numbers, do not talk about what you want your payment to be.

If they will not do it your way - leave. You'll be suprised how much they'll start jumping around when you head for the door.

 

Keep this in mind when buying a new car from a dealership:
They WILL try to get as much of your money as possible... they sell cars/financing to make a PROFIT !!!! They WILL use ANY tactic to maximize their gain!!!
So: The more you know BEFORE you go to buy , the more you will save.
Know the actual Dealer Cost including rebates,factory to dealer incentives , factory refunds to dealers , etc ( Not just Dealer Invoice Price..!!)
Know your FICO score ( dealers refer to this as "beacon") and what you could expect as far as loan rate percentage. SHOP FOR THE CHEAPEST!!
Dealers make most of their money from selling financing ,not selling vehicles.
Don't buy ANY "Snake Oil" . Re: Sealants,undercoating,fabric treatments,... these are absurdly overpriced profit generating methods to take your money.
Dealers must make a profit to stay in business , just be sure they don't make it all off of you.Allow them only a fair share .

 

Your best bet if you HAVE to buy a NEW car, is to get a Pontiac GTO. Otherwise, imagine the guilt you will feel for having deprived your family of the LS2. You need a vehicle that can get your family out of dangerous situations quickly, and with a lot of tire smoke. The Jeep just will not be sufficient. And later, when there are door dings on the GTO, you can take the motor out and put it in an early 50s Buick convertible or something like that which will serve your family even better.

 

I see you live in Az,so you don't really need 4x4 on your "drive to work/drive around town" vehicle. Why not take a look at E-150 Ford vans? Bigger,safer,they get decent gas mileage,AND they are cheaper! They are even big enough and heavy enough to pull a small car trailer. Wrangler's really ain't "man enough"to do that safely. Not only that,but if you are traveling there is room to get in the back and lay down flat on the floor to catch a nap.

 

I've been in the car business for 10 years. I'm one of, if not the, top finance guys in the Austin area/ Central Texas. I'd like to think I know about the business.

I agree Turbo26T for the most part with 2 real big exceptions, maybe 3. Yes dealers are in business to make a profit. That profit keeps the store open, the factories open, and all those employees working to keep our economy running. Profit should not be a bad word. But like he said, you don't want to absorb more of it than you need to.

1. Dealers don't make hardly anything on the sale of the vehicle. We do make money in the finance dept. selling financing, ext. warranties etc. Just because I make money on it, doesn't mean it is a bad thing for you to purchase. I buy extended warranties, GAP, and Credit Life on my vehicles. My Mom got an warranty and GAP on the car I sold her. I strongly believe in those products. Just do some research so you can get a fair deal on them. I would only by a manufacturers warranty, not aftermarket.

2. I really disagree when Turbo says dealers will use any tactic to make a profit. That just doesn't happen the way it used to at most stores. Find a store that has a good reputation around the area. The biggest profit center at a dealership is its Service Dept. It is completly crucial that customers leave me office happy so they come back to our store for service. That is where the owner makes his money!

3. As far as financing at the store goes: Check with your Credit Union, or bank, and see what they would do for you. Then go to the dealership and see if they can beat the rate and terms. Rate is not everything. There are other factors that go into a financing package besides interest rate.

Here's another thing I'd like to point out, although I know it's unpopular. If you get a $30K ride. Suppose the dealer makes $4K profit on the sale of the vehicle. (that may be even more than sticker price profit) That's about 13% markup and that's before anybody at the store is paid. You paid about 100% markup on the shirt, pants and shoes your wearing. More markup on your lunch. More markup on the newspaper you used to research the purchase. etc., etc, etc. Like I said, I know it's unpopular, but dealers just aren't screwing people the way you'd like to think.

Hope this helps a little. PM me if you have any specific questions.

 

Oh, and as far as the CarMax thing goes. Please! I worked at Saturn for 8+ years. We invented no hassle. Everybody pays sticker.

Not saying CarMax is bad, just that you'll probably pay more.

Go to the Jeep dealer and offer to pay sticker. I garuantee you won't have any hassles from them either!!!

 

One thing I've always done is go on a saturday morning. find the car, drive, etc. Then go in 1 hour before closing. The sales guys want their commision. All dealers have a bottom line. You just want to get close to it. Worst case you can get them to sweeten the deal to get free add ons. tint, bed liner, etc. I also find younger salesmen are easier going espesially on a saturday night when they wanna go out and hunt the ladies.

Dave

 

Uh, I always charge time and a half after the posted closing hours. Keep us late at my store, and you will pay more.

If there is a good time, it's on a weekday towards the end of the month. Weekdays during the day are slow, and we're alway on a push to get units out at the end of the month.

 

AMEN BROTHER

 

Buzzard: I appreciate your input & by no means intend to start a pissing contest or create any hard feelings. I'm also from the car business , as members of my family have owned dealerships since the 60's.Their currently down to several GM/Chrysler & Import stores. I have done possibly everything around a dealership ,including sales & service. I didn't mean to step on any honest toes...being from a suburb of a large Metro area , I do see lots of somewhat shady sales methods. You just have to be well informed about the purchase ,and beware of anything that may cost you more money .I bought my latest vehicle at a local dealership that was right on the money,had the lowest finance rate(by far!!),and has a top notch award winning service dept.I did have to sidestep the rookie salesman (been there 2 days!!) and his text book "method" ( I'm pretty familiar with most training methods). I didn't try to steal the vehicle ,did my research ,offered a fair profit ,and we all were satisfied . Warranties,insurance ,etc. are not bad purchases ,if they are a real benefit to you..again you just have to be well informed of the details....
Good to hear from a fellow veteran of the car business

 

I just bought a new car. Yeah it is a pain in the ass. Remember to exercise your ability to walk. These new cars are fungible . . . they are all alike and if you know that and don't get emotionally attached it helps.


make sure to break each transaction down. First, the price of the car work until you are happy. The best time in my opinion is to buy in Feb. or any other month that is short, or at the end of the month. Second, neg. the trade in if any. Third, neg. financing. Don't be affraid to try other banks, etc. but in my experience the dealer is the way to go. However, you can also neg. the rate at the dealer. The worst thing is to talk payments. Break the neg. into several steps and only move to the next step after you are happy. When it feels too intense walk. It is not a 29 ford. There are thousands of those new cars lying around. When you walk they will freak out and will do anything to get you back. After you are done neg. numbers then start with things, tinted windows, factory floor mats, extended warranty, whatever you want.

If you are adverse to neg. face to face then draft a letter stating what you want and fax it to the commercial section of the dealer and let them know exactly what you want (option codes etc) and the price you will pay or make it a blind bid.

I hope this helps. Finally, see SAMS club, etc as some of those clubs and big corporations that people work for have buyer programs. Later.

 

Not to argue with you REJ, but I am scared of buying post-rental cars. They may have complete records on them, but most rental places do their own maintenance, so I'd expect their records to look good, if you know what I mean.

I used to look at a lot of very new, very damaged engines returned from rental companies under the factory warranty, and some months, they'd outnumber the returns from regular customers 10:1. They may be low miles, but if everybody else drives rental cars the way I do, they're hard miles. Just my two cents.

 

Offer them a couple of hundred over invoice and if they won't do it look for someone that will. They pay alot less than invoice for them and WILL try and get you any way they can.

Buzzard,
Man, I don't know how many of your colleagues you associate with, but every car salesman I have come in contact with has rubbed me the wrong way. I know you guys are trained to use certain tactics to increase your chances for a sale, but that crap doesn't work on some people. If car salesmen were honest and straightforward about the price of the car with options throughout the ENTIRE process, people would be happy about buying cars. The finance guy WILL try and sneak in all the snake-oil stuff without explaining it unless you call them on it. Then they say 'well, the salesman told you your payments are $516 a month right?' Yes, but what's this $400 charge for? Broken record: "He told you your payments are $516 a month, right?" Finally, after threatening to leave, they take it off. Shady, Shady, Shady.

 

Read this article:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html


Find out the invoice, and work from the invoice price up, not the MSRP down.
Dont make the deal the same day, push it out as far as you can. Your income and credit are your barganing tools. If you have good of each of these you can damn near name the price of that car you want. Refuse to pay for ANY of the bullshit tack ons, the dealer calls addendums. Also when doing paperwork, look for their paperwork fees. The ONLY ones you have to pay for are the ones with (State Required) next to them, all the others are extra cash for their drinking that night. If you are not putting a great deal of cash down $5000+, dont put any down. If you are not taking off a substantial amount off that price, it is going in their pockets, they just hid the money in the numbers and take it home...
Visit other dealers, get their bottom dollar, best if you get it in writing. Take that to the next guy and get him to beat it.
On my wifes Magnum, I had the dealer fax me their invoice thinking they were faxing to my Credit Union for my own financing. I doctored the numbers about $3000.00 lower then the dealer we were already driving their car, and took that to them. Let them know they would have to beet this by atleast $500 or I was dropping their car off and leaving. They beet it by $750, and I walked away about $5000 better then when we drove off the car.

Bottom line is SCREW them as much as you can, because they will do it to you the first chance you open up!!!!

 

My grandfather was a car dealer...so was my dad....I have worked in almost every job there is in a dealership. My advice....buy a three year old car. And one thing I hate to admit....after being a dyed in the wool true blue flag waving, american car buying, loyal customer of the big three for most of my life I can say one more thing....get a toyota.....(check sams club for a price.)

 

dude, here is the invoice on the long wheel base:
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc....;Jeep;2005 Wrangler&M19M4A12;;M19M4&&5&&nyrnc


and here are the rebates on the car:
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc....;Jeep;2005 Wrangler&M19M4A12;;M19M4&&5&&nyrnc


offer the dealer five hundred (or slightly less) over the invoice MINUS THE REBATE and be done with it. you are not a sucker if the dealer makes $500 on your deal, no shame in that. make sure they have a model and color you like in stock, tell them take your deal or you'll leave. BE WILLING TO WALK AWAY EMPTY HANDED, that is something you cannot fake. HE WHO IS WILLING TO WALK AWAY EMPTY HANDED MOST OFTEN WINS!

don't kill yourself trying to squeeze every peeny you can, less stress for you and your family and less stress for the dealer. they will be more receptive to a fast, easy deal with no hassles.

let me know how it works out for you. I HAVE BEEN SELLING CARS FOR THIRTEEN YEARS at the same dealership, same make of car. hell, same desk. you don't stay at the same dealer for thirteen years because you suck...


tred.