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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 7,738

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    For me it's about the aesthetics. That's the way the cars were when I was a kid totally obsessed with racing. By the time I was old enough to get involved in racing in the later 60s and then on through into the early 90s everything had to have a cage on it. I've never built, driven or wrenched on anything that didn't so I'll leave the "bravery" disscussion to guys like Denny Z. and Spike Ruth (if he's still with us). To my eye, though, a pure, classic open wheel race car doesn't have a roll cage, and perferably, even a roll bar for that matter.
     
  2. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,010

    Speedwrench
    Member

  3. fogs58
    Joined: Jan 14, 2011
    Posts: 135

    fogs58
    Member
    from ooo

    The cars with just the chrome roll bar looked the best , but i didnt have any problem when they put the cages on if they did them with style. Some cages looked pretty bad as far as style. I moreso hated when they moved away from styled nose and full body panels. The cars became less stylish. As far as cages go they were going to have to put them on one way or another. There was an open door to lawsuits already with at least one filed against IMCA for not allowing them on a car when a guy was killed. The regular posters on this thread all know this already. Many of you were involved in the sport during that time in one form or another. I just sat in the stands as a kid. My 2 cents.
     
  4. designs that work
    Joined: Aug 29, 2005
    Posts: 411

    designs that work
    Member

    Mike Mosley in the twin cam is a great picture and that is what we older folks remember as a real race car. But that car or its sprint car brother tried to kill Mike and did a pretty fair job of it. Modern race cars have saved so many drivers! It was not uncommon to either paralyze or kill a driver once a week with no cages. As smarter people have said, I have seen way to many people killed that I just quit going to races.
     
  5. Dick L
    Joined: Dec 21, 2010
    Posts: 138

    Dick L
    Member

    Good point.
     
  6. KK500
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 354

    KK500
    Member

    Yeah.........the 70 car is a different car to the '69. That cool pic of Al's is def the CAE.
     
  7. kennkat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,384

    kennkat
    Member

    I hope Vintage California "Hard Tops" are welcome.... Here are some from my family's past...
     

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  8. indybigjohn
    Joined: May 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,714

    indybigjohn
    Member Emeritus

    I remember Larry Miller driving one of Karl's cars with a BB.
     
  9. 90kworth
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 3

    90kworth
    Member
    from modesto

    Now now Mr Miller- don't need any name calling on here! I wonder what guys like Judd Larson, Don Branson, Jimmy Bryan, Van Johnson, Ted Horn, Al Keller, Rex Mays, Harold Shaw, Bob Swanson, Bob Sweikert, Shorty Templeman, Johnny Shacklford, Bill Schindler,Al Herman, Joe James, Harris Insinger, Jerry Hoyt, Don Davis, Ed Haddad, Jimmy Davies, Walt Brown, Tommy Mattson, Stan Bowman, Ed Elisian, Art Bisch, Bob Carey, Allen Crowe, Walt May, Red Riegel, Gus Schrader, Johnny McDowell, Jimmy Patterson, Bill Randall, Mike Nazaruk, Gordon Reid, Jimmy Reece, would think of your aesthetics? Let me explain- keeping the drivers safe (alive) means we can come back next week and watch them race again. It means their kids will still have a Dad! If it wasn't for these "bleeding heart safety paranoids" we would'nt have fuel bladders, cages,fire suits,arm restraints,window nets,quick release steering wheels. Old sprint cars are great, but so are the ones of today! Sprint cars today are faster quicker,lighter & safer! I call it progress! Also if think drivers like Kinser-Wolfgang-Stewart-Swindell are under talented overly fearless- The next time you leave your cave, to go shopping at Walmart or Target- Go watch a sprint car race instead.
     
  10. Paul Martens
    Joined: Feb 25, 2010
    Posts: 15

    Paul Martens
    Member

    Todays sprint cars do not look as bad as some of the crappy "vintage" replicas being built and passed off as craftsmanship.
     
  11. designs that work
    Joined: Aug 29, 2005
    Posts: 411

    designs that work
    Member

    I do not post here to start arguments. But the big HUMPER TIRES were brought in by the racers, just like big blocks and light weight cars. All of the safety stuff has allowed Kinser, Schatz, Swindell and more local drivers to have careers that are over twenty (20) years. The WRA here in Ca. did not allow cages on their VINTAGE CARS. Kenny Van Blargen (sp) paid the ultimate price under the yellow flag at under fifty (50) miles per hour. As I said the picture of Mosley is what we older folks remember as a real race car.
     
  12. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 7,738

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Some more CAE history that may be of interest:
     

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  13. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Beautiful work Paul,

    Harold Leep's Performance Engineering 1975?

    photo from Racingfromthepast.com

    [​IMG]
     
  14. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    Gents, on the subject of "Run what ya brung".
    On the Champ trail ,the Indy capacities were always clearly published each year, for example: 225 Cu in for normally aspirated twin cams , 156 Cu in for Turbo twin cams , 318 Cu in for stock block push rod , So many square inches of inlet area for the Turbines , a capacity for Diesels , a capacity for two strokes , and dare I say it ,even a capacity for steam (although I dont think the mooted steam car ever got up!).
    My question is ,"Did these capacity limits carry over to all tracks and all Champ races during the season or were they only checked at Indy or controlled at Indy but they might fit a "Fat One" for other races?" Scalzos book indicates they were running Chevs ,at least, up to 356 Cu In in some races so I wonder if the only capacity control was on Memorial Day.
    Can anyone enlighten me?
    By the way, the Mosley picture of the Quad cam is an absolute cracker!!
    Many thanks ,Greg
     
  15. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 851

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    Yes, the same displacement limits were used on the entire Championship Trail in those days. BTW, the displacement for NA pushrod engines was the same as for the OHC engines until late in the 1960s when they were finally allowed to go up to 305 cubic inches. IIRC they were allowed 320 cubic inches the very next year (1969 I think) as the turbo engines were coming into their own by then.

    And while the Bill Lear steam car never made it to the track in 1969 it was actually designed and built by Ken Wallis of Granatelli and Shelby turbine fame. It's in a museum today. Here's some more info on the car:

    http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.c...dreams-never-made-it-to-the-indianapolis-500/
     

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  16. baldtireman
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 378

    baldtireman
    Member

    We just lost Oscar Fay......:(
     
  17. baldtireman
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 378

    baldtireman
    Member

    Metzmaker,Fay,and Poland all appear to be in CAE or CAE kit cars...;)
     
  18. baldtireman
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 378

    baldtireman
    Member

    Stan Bowman was lost at 40 mph.....:(:mad: I watched Larry Dickson and Al Smith tangle at the start of a heat race in turn one on the Heidelberg pavement... Smith was fortunate for only having only a rollbar... he lost a lot of skin,as the car slid on his HEAD and ground away his helmet. he survived to race another day. Watched Dickson and Greg Weld tangle of turn 4 at Heidelberg. Weld flew high into the fence... damaged his eyesight... no cage would have been "Curtains".....
     
  19. fogs58
    Joined: Jan 14, 2011
    Posts: 135

    fogs58
    Member
    from ooo

    Some more out of New Bremen programs. The Besecker #99 was a beauty black/ red. Last shot of Bob Morgan crash you can see barely a post sticking up. That was at the outside pit entrance. I remember after that crash my dad saying that someone needed to go down there and saw that off at the rail because someone was gonna get impaled (sp?) on it.
     
  20. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 851

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    That must have been one of the most freak accidents of all time. Photos of the car after the crash show the tail bent up partially crushing the cockpit with the steering wheel twisted in a knot like a pretzel. And the whole rear axle assembly has been jerked loose as well.

    But as they say it's not the speed it's the force from the stop. When Dale Earnhardt was killed the actual speed up the banking and into the wall at impact was also around 40 MPH. It doesn't take much to hit something just wrong.
     
  21. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,760

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN


    Been there. I couldn't have been doing more than 60 when my altered made a hard right into a concrete guard wall. It rattled my retinas so hard I "whited out". Also fractured two vertabrae and spent six weeks on my back. It gave me new respect for concrete.
     
  22. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 519

    mac miller
    Member
    from INDY


    Good pix! As a young junior grade USAC mechanic, I spend my teen years working for Henry Meyer on the Iddings #93...... My cousin was Gene Besecker so I also spent quite a bit of time working on the #99.
     
  23. The 76 super will be my first 'restoration' based on craftsmanship. Everything else I've done until this was for fun.
     
  24. revjimk
    Joined: Nov 30, 2010
    Posts: 88

    revjimk
    Member
    from Denver

    Mac Miller: "some bleeding heart safety paranoid "? Tyler Wolf just got killed the other day. Thats not paranoia, its reality.
    Some guys I was talking to at Knoxville Nationals last year told they had witnessed a driver get decapitated in Missouri. That might make me stop going, more than "ugly" cars.
    I think the older cars look cool too, & don't doubt they took more skill to drive. But most drivers would prefer to be alive & not paralyzed. I don't appreciate the name calling
     
  25. paddybuilt
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 137

    paddybuilt
    Member
    from SoCal

    Well said, To many good drivers left to early! I once asked a old racer buddy of mine what he thought about seeing his friends getting killed so often, He said just came back from WWII and saw it all the time. His last race came in a midget at San Berdo, no cage, car cleared the crash wall upside down, his body hit the wall, The picture is hanging in his shop. He spent a year on his back, Jack Walker has told me he's 86 for the last 3 years, One of the lucky ones.
     
  26. paddybuilt
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 137

    paddybuilt
    Member
    from SoCal

    Kennkat, There were 21 Supers at the Legends of Kearney Bowl Reunion last April, Some of us Ran Tulare that Sat. night. check out vintage Ca supermodifieds on facebook page of come out and watch the Legends of Kearney bowl run in 2013 four more cars being restored this winter that I know of. They run Tulare, Hanford, Madera, Santa Maria, Watsonville, Roseville, Stockton and a few others.
     
  27. LEE GREENAWALT
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 322

    LEE GREENAWALT
    Member

    Here's some Hershey 2012, enjoy!

    The first time I saw this car was 1997 when I was in Vegas, the car was on display at the Imperial Palace Casino car Museum.

    Present day 2012 the car is at Hershey for sale, amazing.
     

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  28. LEE GREENAWALT
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 322

    LEE GREENAWALT
    Member

    Quarter midgets from the 2012 Hershey flea market fields, enjoy!
     

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  29. LEE GREENAWALT
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 322

    LEE GREENAWALT
    Member

    Midget in the flea market field for sale, trailer too, 2012 Hershey, enjoy!
     

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  30. LEE GREENAWALT
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 322

    LEE GREENAWALT
    Member

    more goodies from 2012 Hershey.....
     

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