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Vintage Drums

Discussion in 'The Antiquated' started by LBCD, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Camco was born out of the George Way company after John Rochon bought out the other shareholders in the company and gained majority control. After George had been backed into a corner, Rochon accepted his forced resignation, after they had had conflicting views in a board meeting in August 1961.

    Production of Camco Drums was moved from the GW factory in Elkhart to Oaklawn, Illinois during 1961, and production continued there until 1971. The Oaklawn era drums built by Camco varied very minimally from those designed and built but the Way company previously.
    The Turret Lug
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    The shells were predominantly 4 ply in construction, with reinforcing ‘glue’ rings. They were adorned in the most part with the famous George Way turret lugs, ‘cloud’ badges and tall ‘double flange’ counter hoops. But not all drums had the same features – a new ‘Studio Model’ snare featured the ‘Streamline’ lug design and strainer.[​IMG]

    The Camco company did not capitalise on the rock’n’roll scene of the 1960’s in the way that the other major brands like Ludwig, Gretsch, Slingerland and Rogers did. With only a few high profile pop acts of the time, like Dennis Wilson (Beach Boys) and Doug Clifford (Creedance Clearwater Revival), the company seemed to stick to a slightly old fashioned and jazz based clientele that may have hindered later sales.
    2 kits from the LA era [​IMG][​IMG]
    Unlike other drum companies of the time, Camco drums did feature differing internal shell finishes dependent on the exterior of the shells. Wrapped drums were almost exclusively painted white inside while lacquer finished drums featured a clear coat to the shell’s inner ply.

    In 1971 the company was briefly moved to Chanute in Kansas whilst under the ownership of Kustom. Kustom were a Kansas based amplification company owner by Ross Inc and established in 1964. Kustom built solid-state guitar and bass amplifiers, organ amplifiers, guitars, basses, keyboards and P.A systems. The alliance was short lived and Camco moved to LA where it finally closed shop in 77/78. These drums are coveted by collectors around the globe[​IMG]

    Dennis Wilson of The Beach Boys snare in satin blue swirl.
    [​IMG]

    There would not be Camco and DW drums without George Way. DW would purchase all of the original George Way tooling and left over shells and the rest is history. They are still using the turret lug design today as to show you how ahead Way was in his design....they are now the drums that pro level drummers use all over the world.
    Born in 1891 in San Francisco he grew up to play drums with some great company’s....Wild Bill’s Wild West Show was just one of many.
    He also worked for Stone Drum Co, Leedy, Amrawco, Slingerland, Rogers, C.G. Conn, Leedy and Ludwig and finally his own brand George Way Drum Co. established in 1956. He was a huge contributor to the evolution of modern drums.[​IMG][​IMG]



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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
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  2. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    We visited Nashville a couple of years ago and had to post some pics from the museums we visited. I was having trouble with my cell, sorry bad pics [​IMG][​IMG]
    The bass drum was also his suitcase.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]The Legend...JC[​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]


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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  3. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 140

    TraditionalToolworks
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    from NorCal

    Ok, I'm not a drummer, I've said that...but this photo is irony...I took some toolboxes in trade, I actually think these may have come from one of the guys in Los Lobos...maybe this was one of the old sticks the drummer used. I probably took the stuff in trade from Cesar though, the guitar player. He was left handed...(I remember as he still owes me some money for a blue mustang guitar I sold him...). They did become pretty famous...good on those guys...congrats David, Cesar, et al...

    Anyway, this is the only thing I can add to this thread.

    I have used this broken drum stick for so many things over the years...kind of funny, when I use it, it's normally like using a crescent wrench for a hammer (I'm never done that...:rolleyes:). I just used it today to knock off some spider fuzzball 'thangs, not sure what you call them but black widows grow in them...we don't need any stinkin' black widows on my jalopy...;)

    chevy-brakes-drum-stick-toolbox-05.jpg
     
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  4. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,425

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    ^^^^ Luderen Darbone and his Hackberry Ramblers", with a name like that, they had to be good.
     
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  5. TraditionalToolworks
    Joined: Jan 6, 2019
    Posts: 140

    TraditionalToolworks
    Member
    from NorCal

    Indeed, small world. Seems the other guy in the Bayonets was a drummer, I don't know him but one of my good friends does, his name is Oliver Leiber. I heard the Bayonets are defunct now as Brian has been on the road with McCartney the majority of his time.
     
  6. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    The Rogers Dyna-Sonic snare drum. [​IMG][​IMG]
    The drum was launched in 1962 in both a wood and metal shell in varying depths, fitted with a unique snare frame often referred to as a snare cradle.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The snare frame that held the snare wires evolved through various versions in an attempt to perfect the set up of the wires. The basic premise was to have a drum with floating snares which could be tensioned without putting any pressure on the head. This would require the shell to have no snare beds, which were believed to reduce volume and tone and create choking.
    [​IMG]

    The metal shell Dynasonic is most common in a 5”. The very first metal Dynasonics were thin Gretsch shells, of which only about 200 were made. There were no beads and seven etched lines in the centre of the shell. The next generation of shells had two beads and were a chrome-over-brass (COB) shell, with seven lines around the centre of the shell and Bread & Butter lugs. This one I restored a few years ago, it has the 2 beads and 7 lines around the shell with bread and butter lugs.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Like the wood shell drums, these were soon replaced with Beavertail lugs and the shells resolved to have five lines etched in the middle.
    [​IMG]

    The 1960’s drums feature the script Rogers logo and the Dynasonic badge. The late 1970’s drums feature the Big R badge with Rogers USA lettering. Here is one from that era I restored a while back.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a maple snare I picked up that had been painted rattle can black. I stripped the paint and stained it and lacquered it back to it’s glory days!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The Rogers Co has been brought back this past year and are selling new Dyna’s made to the exact specs of the originals. The Bread and Butter lugs have been upgraded to the Beavertail style lugs.
    [​IMG]



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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  7. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bump! Any other HAMB vintage drums or drummers out there? Hey Marcus Edel...got any old skins??
     
  8. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    I make my own snares using 16 ga. Stainless that I roll up and TIG the seam. I try to use the vintage style NOS tube lugs, Gretsch, Slingerland lugs and bowtie lugs. IMG_2004.JPG IMG_2051.JPG IMG_2007.JPG
    Here are some Keller shells after stain and poly. IMG_2025.JPG IMG_2026.JPG IMG_2027.JPG IMG_2028.JPG
    I have made a few clones too... IMG_2038.JPG IMG_2040.JPG this Rogers clone was sold to a guy in Paris, France IMG_2039.JPG IMG_2041.JPG
    My version of the Black Beauty IMG_2022.JPG
    Made this one last year.... IMG_0675.JPG
    Made this kit 15 years ago... IMG_2015.JPG IMG_2035.JPG

    Any guys out there in H.A.M.B. land build your own drums too?


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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  9. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    F8BF1DFE-B0CE-44DD-93C0-E38278006EE4.jpeg Bump, another oldie :
     
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  10. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Beautiful craftsmanship. That L&L is sweet...aged marine pearl is one of the best wraps period 1276.jpg 154.jpeg 1842.jpg
     
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  11. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    28E76C37-ADAE-429D-B860-2B46D4DDFB84.jpeg Thanks! She’s actually a converted 12”x15” snare, it was my mentor’s first drum from 1947. It became his floor tom with his brand new Leedy & Ludwig kit. I play these just about every day.
     
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  12. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Wow! That is an amazing kit! Someday I will get my hands on one with a 26x14, 12x8, 16x16 and 14x6.5. [​IMG]
    Here is a little history on Leedy that I copied off the internet...credit to the writer.
    U.G. Leedy was an excellent judge of character, and hired departmental managers who maintained his high standards. When he realized the need for a full-time sales manager, he sought out George Way. Way was at the time operating his own drum company in Canada, but Leedy convinced him to give that up and move to Indianapolis. The personable Way was not only a percussionist and salesman, but also an engineer and artist. Many of his contributions changed the percussion industry forever, such as the floating-head concept, self-aligning lug, and pearloid covering on drums. Way created a promotional publication titled Leedy Drum Topics which included playing tips, endorser news, and product introductions.[​IMG]

    Way's concepts and rough drawings were often perfected in the engineering department by the talented Cecil Strupe. Strupe was Leedy,s chief Mechanical Engineer and shop superintendent from the early 1920s through the mid 1930s. (In 1937 Strupe left to join William F. Ludwig and William F. Ludwig II when they founded the WFL company. (As a WFL employee, Strupe developed the triple-flanged hoop.)[​IMG]

    Floating Heads

    Leedy's Way invented the double-flanged hoop, resulting in the "floating head".
    In the mid 1920s, both the Leedy company and the Ludwig & Ludwig company (which had by this time grown larger than Leedy in terms of gross sales) began to develop plans for manufacturing banjos. The banjo was a wildly popular instrument at the time, and it seemed at the time to be a natural move. Both firms spent fortunes gearing up for the production of elaborately carved, inlaid, and plated instruments at the worst possible time. Banjo popularity began to wane, and cash flow became something of a crisis.

    U.G. Leedy's health began to fail. Knowing that the end was near and wanting to provide for his family and employees, he sold his company to the Conn company in 1929. At nearly the same time, Conn purchased the financially weakened Ludwig & Ludwig. Conn moved both companies to Elkhart where both lines of drums were produced in the same building. George Way and most of the rest of the Leedy executive staff moved to Elkhart and continued their product developments without major disruption. Wm. F. Ludwig had also moved to Elkhart, but found it difficult to work in such an arrangement, and quit to return to Chicago where he founded his own company, WFL, in 1937.

    George Way continued to head up the growth and development of the Leedy Drum Company throughout the 1930s as a Conn division.
    In the aftermath of WWII, which had totally disrupted Conn's drum divisions, it was decided to combine Ludwig & Ludwig with Leedy, creating the Leedy & Ludwig drum company. This new division became operational in 1951. A cornerstone product for Leedy & Ludwig was a new series of drums with a unique tuning system, the "Knob Tension" line. The concept can be attributed to George Way, although Way was not responsible for the final engineering which proved to be lacking, and the line was a spectacular and expensive failure. Knob Tension drums were discontinued within a year. Conn decided to discontinue the unprofitable Leedy & Ludwig division four years later in 1955.[​IMG]

    Wm. F. Ludwig II (of the WFL drum company) and Bud Slingerland (of the Slingerland drum company) teamed up to make Conn an offer. The Ludwig family got the Ludwig name back, and Slingerland purchased rights to the Leedy name. Ludwig and Slingerland spent weeks going through the plant to debate the division of tools, equipment, and inventory.

    Slingerland tried to introduce Leedy as a second line. They wanted to sell Slingerland drums to the top dealer in each town, and Leedy to the secondary dealers, leaving Ludwig the third-tier dealers. That plan did not work out. Except for a new lug design and badge, the Leedy drums that were produced by Slingerland from 1956 to 1965 were basically Slingerland drums. Slingerland quietly discontinued Leedy production and use of the name in the mid 1960s.

    The Slingerland family sold the drum company in 1970 in what was to become the first of numerous ownership shifts over the next 25 years. Each time, the purchase agreement included the Leedy name, patents, trademarks, and parts. Each time, that is, until Fred Gretsch sold Slingerland to the Gibson company in 1994. He retained ownership of Leedy and began to consider how he could bring this once great American drum name back into the marketplace!
    [​IMG]



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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  13. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    The bass drum pedal board can be used for gas and even brake pedals. [​IMG][​IMG]


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  14. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yep, that article pretty well sums it up! Can’t help but wonder what history would show, if only they had not gone the tension route. So my set is pretty well the swan song. This set features a 20” bass, which is what I prefer, fits well with jazz, swing, early rock and my weekly praise and worship gig. However I use an OT Austin Fibes WMP set for that.Your manufactured drums look awesome!
     
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  15. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I prefer to use a Speed King for its intended purpose. That use is why they made Moon pedals...lol
     
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  16. @LBCD Awesome write up in reply #42. I'm just a "fumbling kid looking for a light switch in the dark" kind of drummer. My Dad played back in the 50's in Belgium with friends of his. Went town to town doing one night gig's so the folks could get out a dance to swing music. I'm currently going thru a junior Ludwig kit for my grandson. Mostly refining the hardware is all. Did get a set of used hats for the junior set but decided to keep then for myself. Took my old hat's and cut them from 14's to 12's.
     
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  17. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Johnny...cool story! I too have cut down a bunch of cracked cymbals! I played in a celtic punk/rock band for 15 years and I probably broke one crash cymbal every year and high end too boot! They are pretty easy to cut down with a hand snips as you probably already know!
     
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  18. Hand snips! LeBlond lathe. :) I was very surprised what the sound difference was. I never liked the sound of them. Now they are not flat and lazy like before.
     
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  19. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Sheet metal worker vs. machinist! I see you are in Downey... I worked at Rancho Los Amigos from 87-96.
    Do you recognize this location? It is south of Imperial Hwy when you enter the campus, The big building on the right was occupied by the machinist and the building on the left was sheet metal up until 1992. Built in 1926 but the property has been there since 1888. I set my drums up in the shop a few times after work just to hear the natural reverb!
    009.jpg
     
  20. Been by it many a time traveling to my son's place of work on Dakota at a race shop in an old porcelain factory per an elderly friend that just past recently and lived in Hollydale his whole life. The exhaust stacks were still in the roof.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  21. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Every year we have an International Fair at the Old Orange Circle...CW Moss Ford Parts are located there and it is packed in with thousands of people...my previous band has been playing there for 20 plus years. It’s Labor Day weekend and it gets Hot!
    There are great vintage stores and restaurants along with great food booths from all over the world. The band plays on Irish street and it gets absolutely
    I built this kit and finished it in a custom satin finish I call violin red. [​IMG]


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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  22. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Billy Gladstone, born William Goldstein, was a Romanian-born New York City drummer, percussionist, drum builder, inventor, and drum teacher who performed in New York theaters, including the Capitol Theatre and most famously Radio City Music Hall in the 1930s and 1940s. We share the same birthday Dec 15.

    From the Internet, credit to the writer.
    He was perhaps most famous in his day for his snare-drum technique, which is often referred to in the drumming community as "The Gladstone Technique". This technique involves the use of the fingers to control the rebound of the drum stick, as opposed to the "Moeller Method" which utilizes a fluid whipping motion to control stick rebound. Both Gladstone and Moeller are now popularly noted for their individually named techniques, but it is unlikely that either drummer single-handedly invented either technique from scratch. More likely they both observed other experienced drummers and instructors of their time and later expanded and popularized each technique via modern publications and private drum instruction. As a teacher, Gladstone taught, formally or informally, a number of noted jazz drummers, including Joe Morello, Shelly Manne, and Buddy Rich. As an inventor and drum builder he devised his own special drum kits bearing his name. These rare snare drums are considered highly collectible today.
    [​IMG]

    Among his inventions is a rare jazz instrument similar to the Bock-a-da-bock, a hand-held cymbal apparatus called the “Ludwig Gladstone Cymbal” when it was introduced by the Ludwig Drum Company in 1927. In 1929 the Leedy Drum Company listed it in their catalogue as the “Hand Sock Cymbals.” Gladstone was granted a patent September 27, 1927, for his "Operating Device for Cymbals," his first commercially accepted patent (his previous patents were not mass-produced). This launched an illustrious career as an inventor of percussion and non-percussion items.[1] On April 21, 1931 Gladstone was awarded a patent for a percussion musical instrument. The patent number is 1,801,422.[2]
    The famous Gladstone snare can be tuned with one tuning key for both heads from just the top of the drum. The key consists of 3 different receivers. One for the top head, one for the bottom head and one for tuning both heads at the same time. [​IMG][​IMG]


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  23. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
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    Another bump! No other hot rod drummers? Here is a paper thin pair of early 50’s A series hats with a real sweet “Ching” to them : 08F8E679-AEEB-4452-9143-7F465907C88A.jpeg
     
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  24. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Those are nice! Early Zildjian A’s are sweet...especially the the thin ones!

    I was gifted this 30’s/40’s era hi hat cymbal back in 1980 from my uncle Pat who played in big swing bands back in the 40’s-60’s throughout LA. I used it as a top hat combined with a Paiste 2002 (bottom) on an album in 88 and retired it just so I wouldn’t crack it. It now sits atop my air cleaner in my 41. [​IMG]


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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  25. Just came onto this thread and thought i would post this up. These are a set of Eames(pronounced AMES) drums that my ex-brother-in-law's younger brother used when he played with the Joe Perry Project.I lettered the heads for him around 1980. Ron was about 16 and he toured briefly with Buddy Rich. The drum manufacturer was located in my home town of Saugus Massachusetts and did a couple sets of drums for Buddy. I painted one of his drum heads many years ago and wish I had a picture of it. RonStewart.jpg
     
  26. LBCD
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 950

    LBCD
    Member

    Wow! Thanks for the post!


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  27. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,287

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    I got a new set of Slingerland blue sparkle drums in 63. I still have mine and wouldn't trade them but in the last few years after finding out about DW drums, I would really like to get a set.
     
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  28. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    DAB69E52-B541-4B68-85AD-30DC612EF964.jpeg Nothn’ wrong with good ol’ Slingy blue sparkle...
     
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  29. What up with the ears on the rim? The washer and screw head have no way of being square for an even pull.
     
  30. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,006

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Must just be the angle of the picture. Rim not bent, sits flush; sound awesome!
     
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