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vibrating gyrating ford 302-- just annoying

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 65fordguy, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    Well, I have had this motor since 2007 and its a stout motor.. its a 1986 5.0 HO block with a flat tappet performance melling cam shaft.. rebuilt by a known good ford builder..it was balanced.. it has the 50oz front balancer.. new.. because I thought that was maybe the problem.. I checked the crank numbers and it is the 50 oz.. I have a 1984 f150 flex plate new from napa... rebuilt c6 tranny.. new torq converter.. electric fans.. and HEI dizzy from proform...eddie intake.. and eddy 500 carb... this engine has always had a vibration come in around 1300 and exit around 1800 1900 with the sweet spot around 1500 1600 for the vibration.. was never really an issue as I had 3.70 gears.. and the engine was only in that range for 2 sec while getting to speed... but recently swapped down to a highway gear and now I'm cruising around at 1500 1700 rpm at 45mph on back streets and 2000 at highway speeds.. and 2200 ish at 70 on the Istate.. needless to say I feel the vibration aLOT now... can you guys point me to some things that could get rid of this vibration.. yesterday it just wore me out and was ready to yank it. I would appreciate any help. Thanks
     
  2. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,563

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Will it vibrate in when you just rev it up or just driving down the road?
     
  3. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    both.. same exact rpm going or sitting. I have a mind to unbolt all the pulleys and see if my pulleys are out.. but, im told it would not cause this much of a shake. This vibration feels like a jack hammer with soft rubber bit hitting the frame.. its flat out annoying.. fine above 2000 rpm..
     
  4. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,563

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Was it balanced with the balancer and flex plate on the crank?
     
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  5. Were the trucks using a 50oz imbalance in 1984, i thought only the HO got that, maybe check the flex plate? Could have also been a mis-box at the parts house?
     
  6. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida


    That was my first thought too. If the truck was running a 351 that would be a 28 oz imbalance. Being that you are running a C6 that might be the flexplate you got. Even a 302 truck flexplate might be 28 oz, that is possible as trucks usually had changes made long after cars did.

    Only way you will ever know is to pull the transmission , install a KNOWN 50 oz imbalance flexplate, and fire it up. Even though the vibration smooths out, it sure isn't doing the motor any good being there at all.
    Don
     
  7. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    maybe..diegochero.. who knows.. The builder balanced it with the original balancer on the front.. but I replaced it per talking to him.. I pulled the oil pan and checked the numbers.. 2MAE and CMAE stamped on the shaft.. which should be a 50 oz balance. didn't fix. I've heard that there are a number of things besides engine balance that can cause a motor to vibrate.. like vacuum, Coils, circuits in the carb, and all of the ignition system.. which in my case is the GM HEI ProForm dizzy... likely? I dunno.
     
  8. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    yep.. I agree with this statement.. I've only driven the truck a handful of times since the rear swap.. when I called the builder.. who by the way is the NAPA engine rebuilder located in Russellville arkansas. After talking with numerous people.. he was said to be one of the best around.. he checked the plate out and wether or not he checked it for weight I don't know.. but, This looks like my next move.. I guess. Im wondering if I can put on a new flex plate bolt it all up and fire it up before putting it back in the truck.. because while I have it out.. I am thinking about doing an AOD swap.. if it clears up.. I may just invest in the AOD. if not.. I think its time to sell the motor and move on to the next.
     
  9. 65COMET
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 3,086

    65COMET
    Member

    My bet is the flexplate,an 84 truck would be 28oz balanced! Most balancers are not to be drilled or modified for balancing the engine,not sure about stock balancers!If the vibration happens even while in neutral then it rules out mounts.Was the cam ground with the new or old firing order?Are the plug wires wired to match the cam timing sequence? ROY.
     
  10. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    What firing order are you using? 15426378 or 13726548?
     
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  11. 60 Belair
    Joined: Feb 19, 2006
    Posts: 747

    60 Belair
    Member

    Man I chased one of these ford imbalance probs on a old mustake once, after I got the right balancer on it,That fixed the motor vibration, It still had this mean vibration but only when driving about 50 mph and up . Turns out the guy had just install a MP brake kit all the way around the car, the made in china rear drums were so far out of wack it was crazy. Put some good old made in the USA drums (old ones I had on a used diff) and bam vibration gone. MP sent us another set of high quality china drums they were not as bad but still not good. That mustake still has my 40 year old drums on it. Andy
     
  12. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    I matched the firing order to the Cam Card.. its a melling MTF 2 I believe.
     
  13. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    oo man, I'd have to go look.. its been a bit.. I know it is whatever was on the cam card..
     
  14. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    well, i do have a china drums on the back.. but, this bad boy does it sitting still. in park,neutral, drive, and reverse... lol.. aggravating. I once upon a time had steel wheels.. and they were so bad out It was incredible.. when I finally put on aluminum wheels.. I thought holy cow.. over half the vibration gone.. but.. I knew the motor had a vibration.. I just assumed that was what I had been feeling.. It was a real rattler.. since then its been acutally good.. just that one little area.. and now that i've got the higher gear.. its just puts me in that bad rpm range for normal driving.
     
  15. da dodge brother
    Joined: Apr 2, 2010
    Posts: 381

    da dodge brother
    Member
    from wisconsin

    That Ford must be related to the 270 hemi in my '55 Dodge. Those problems sound identical. I have driven mine over 20,000 mi. like this and no problems. But every time I head out I'm waiting for something. I've noticed a lot of these similar problems here on the board with swap overs and just wondering if there is anything the builders can do to really pinpoint this situation before we install and drive. That second and third tear down is a bitch. It seems this problem isn't dedicated to just one brand either. Seen people talking about it using all manufacturers. It looks like everything obvious has been done from balancing to new harmonic balancers, to different torque converters and new flex plates. What are we missing???

    --- www.kkoanorthevent.yolasite.com ---
     

    Attached Files:

  16. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    lol. you are right.. I've read a ton on this.. but nothing pinpoints an acutal fix. seems there are too many factors.. what really sucks is my friend went out and had his ragged 5.0 rebuilt and spent 850 on a stroker balanced kit.. had a CHEVY guy machine the block.. and assemble the bottom end.. put it together with the same factory not even touched heads and she purrs like a kitten. im sitting here with 2300 in a motor that albiet stout.. is no stroker and vibrates like an electric toothbrush.
     
  17. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    next time im taking my ford motor to a chevy guy! lol
     
  18. That's because us Chevy Engine Builders know what the hell we are doing:eek:

    All kidding aside, if in fact the flex plate is 28oz/inch balance, that is indeed your problem.

    First I would suggest doing this. Remove all the drive belts and run the engine and see if there is any change. Then remove the crank pulley and again check for the vibration.

    On a darker note, have you ever closely inspected the oil after draining it?

    How about cutting the filter open and checking for debris after the rebuild?
     
  19. da dodge brother
    Joined: Apr 2, 2010
    Posts: 381

    da dodge brother
    Member
    from wisconsin

    Maybe I just stumbled onto something. Way back in high skool a buddy of mine replaced the flatty in his 51 Ford with a Y block. Ever since then it had a vibration. Maybe we should all start looking for flatty's to install in our rides ....
     
  20. If you have a laser temp gauge, run the engine up to temp and check each cylinder at the exhaust manifold/header.

    If not you can use a spray bottle and some water just to verify each cylinder is actually up to temp, TR
     
  21. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Ah, don't feel bad, I've had the 331 stroker in and out of my 27 3 times trying to find a rear seal drip. I have more money in this motor than any other one I have ever done and yet I have pulled engines from a junker and used them with no leaks. :confused: Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and tear it down to find out what is going on, so I see a 4th time in my future. :(

    Just part of this hobby we have all chosen.

    Don
     
  22. I see you mentioned new T/C as well, what brand is it?

    I have seen my fair share of house brand Jegs and Summit converters that were pure trash, they could be used for nothing more than recycle steel or cores for a real converter builder to use, rebuild and modify.
     
  23. hoop98
    Joined: Jan 23, 2013
    Posts: 1,363

    hoop98
    Member
    from Texas

    We used to fine balance the 430-455 in the car. We would add lead weight to the flexplate and move it until we got the smoothest run. Then we would vary the weight.

    We also had holes in the balancer hub to add weight to get it absolutely smooth, picky Buick owners!

    We would use the strobe wheel balancer too, but we could do without it, just took longer. Had to balance driveshafts with hose clamps.


    Hoop
     
  24. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    Im honestly not sure... I got it from the transmission shop that did the trans..If I had to guess they got it from oriellys as all those boys love oriellys however I don't know if he sources his tc from other vendors... it was blue lol. thats all I know.
     
  25. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    well if I pull the motor this time Im going to end up doing a lot more work than just fixing the motor shakes.. I aim to replace the twin I beams with a better setup..and get the motor further back.. it sits so far forward on the factory perches.. I know I can get the motor down and back a few inches.. . I also have an annoying rear seal leak.. I think though my pan is warped.
     
  26. I read all of your post's again, and I see where you talk about how removing the belts/pulleys probably woudn't make a difference because the vibration is that bad.

    You need to verify the correct flex plate. If the rotating assemble was spun with the wrong plate, the only cure is to rebalance with the correct one. I would magnaflux the crank and check for straightness if that wasn't already done. New cast cranks are really cheap and might pay to get a new one. Wish I had better news friend- Yes I do this for a living, TR
     
  27. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    Who knows... it just may be the problem!?.. i may go out and do that today.. fairly easy to do. won't hurt to try I suppose. im guessing just pull the belt and unbolt the crank pulley
     
  28. Why did you have the engine rebuilt? Just tired or did she blow at one time?

    I would ask the machinist to check the rods for straightness as well. Ask if he has the Sunnen rod checker. It will check in 2 planes and they work real nice, easy as pie. A bent rod or two will give you a bad internal vibration as well. A new set of replacement rods are cheap as well. If you go any further you might even consider a small stroker kit, the 331 is a nice upgrade.
     
  29. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    I actually had a 1984 302 out of an f150... I took it to the builder.. and he determined the block was junk.. egg shapped bores and he gave me a mexican block ( I think thats what he called it ) something any way that he had that was a better thicker metal block.. he originally was going to build it for another customer that stiffed him.. so I got this block. all new rotating assembly.. ( he bought a hyper-eutectic sealed power federal mogul set ) the melling performance cam -- just what he liked.. I had no preference other than I wanted a better than stock motor... high flow oil pump.. double roller set.. he drilled extra oiling holes.. had a like new crank shaft..heads got port and polish ...to edelbrock intake .. since my original wires were junk I just used the 1 wire dizzy .. never really wanted to keep it but it does a good job.. or so I think?.. I just went out and pulled the crank pulley fired it up and its still there... I took a video I'll be posting as soon as youtube allows it ot be viewed. now I gotta go put it back on! o well at least I know.
     
  30. 65fordguy
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,451

    65fordguy
    Member

    here it is.. the motor was cold.. I don't have my choke back in after painting it.. wasn't sure If I was keeping that setup so didn't waste time putting it in... since I took the pulley off didn't want to run it too long.
     

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