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Technical Twin A

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by NielsK, May 19, 2016.

  1. NielsK
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 197

    NielsK
    Member
    from Denmark

    I'm collecting parts to build a twin engined speedster.
    I'll use a pair of basically stock A engines, equipped with down draft carbs and lake headers. Home made frame. Dropped Model A front axel. Volvo overdrive gear box and Model A rear axel . Everything will be keept simple and the key words are "Low cost"
    I always like to plan ahead and think it through before I start.
    So here's the question: I want to run 1 dizzy. So obviously it has to come from a 8 cylinder engine. Inline or V8. What to chose? Any ideas on advance curves and so on. Must also be easy to find. I'm in Denmark. Not that much "American Iron" over here . Thoughts or bright ideas? Bring it on
     
  2. Straight eight or V8. It doesn't matter. Either will have 8 lobes and 8 plug wires. Two stock "A" engines?? Might be almost as fast as one "A" engine ;)
     
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  3. dentisaurus
    Joined: Dec 11, 2006
    Posts: 363

    dentisaurus
    Member
    from Boston

    not quite sure i understand how you plan to use two A engines but if you are using then essentially complete you can use the dizzy that is on each engine. Are you thinking side by side or end to end?
     
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  4. mike bowling
    Joined: Jan 1, 2013
    Posts: 3,422

    mike bowling
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There was a dual 4 cyl. engine car at the Race of Gentlemen last fall a blonde hottie was driving- there must be some tech info on that build here someplace?
    These were end to end and pretty cool. I think the lady's name was Jessie Coombs???
     
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  5. NielsK
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 197

    NielsK
    Member
    from Denmark

    Here in Denmark we had in 10's - 20'ties a race on the Beach of the isle of Fanø.
    It was banned after Cambell lost a front Wheel which in turn killed a 13 year old boy.
    Now some of the Guys i know are trying to revive this race on the nearby isle Rømø.
    There are a tread about it in here somewhere
    I'm not able to attend this year but next year is a possibility.
    For attending I need a open car or a special.
    So two engines end by end, speedster body, and we are ready to shine.
    I know it wont win anything, but it'll be fun like hell.
    I could run two Dizzys, but to keep it simple to tune I would like 1 Dizzy. I'll have my hands full with dialing the 4 Zenith carbs in.
    Any ideas. what will fit easily??
    I'll see if I can find something on the mentioned build
     
  6. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,285

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Even if the engines are end to end the tune does not have to be the same
    The engines can be built different say have one a low end engine and one a top end engine
    One will pick up where the other falls off
    I learned this form the pulling tractor guy
     
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  7. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,632

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Two engines with one distributor means you will have to be very careful how you couple them together . They will need to be exactly at 90 degrees from each other. Not 93 or 95 degrees. It would be much less a pain to use two distributors and just couple the engines which ever way they fall.
     
    Unkl Ian likes this.
  8. NielsK
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 197

    NielsK
    Member
    from Denmark

    Okay. I never heard that one before. It's worth a thought. :)
     
  9. NielsK
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 197

    NielsK
    Member
    from Denmark

    Yeah you're right I'll have to be precise when I couple them together. But that's not a problem.
    I'm determined to run one Dizzy. Think I'll hunt one Down from a inline 8, Pontiac or Olds.
    Need one that's running low rpm's. Stock A's are not happy much above 3000 rpms
     
  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,632

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I fail to see how a V8 distributor would not work as well as a straight eight distributor and be more readily able to get parts for. Or two distributors coupled as one. How do you propose to couple the engines together? Will you be making the pieces or using commercially available parts?
     

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    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  11. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    Well, this is one of the more recent twin engine threads I've come across on HAMB, but I've not seen any discussion about how the cooling systems of these set ups operated, particularly with the rear engine. Granted, most of these cars done like this were dragsters expected only to run a few seconds, but... I've read about distributors, couplers, starters, but never any comments or descriptions about the cooling of these systems. Inquiring minds want to know.
     
  12. Any news after 2 years ?
     
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  13. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,632

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A V8 is really two four cylinder blocks cast with a common crankcase. No reason two fours wouldn't work just the same as a V8
     
  14. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    I didn't expect anyone on the thread to chime in, but I was gambling on someone currently being able to answer how cooling issues are handled in a twin engine drive train. It's a crapshoot.
     
  15. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,661

    XXL__
    Member

    I'm just guessing here, but it seems like water pumps would circulate water through each engine... kind of like how Henry did it... x2... into radiator(s). Or did I not understand the dilemma you're talking about?
     
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  16. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    Thinking of the typical radiator/engine cooling set up, I wonder how the rear engine stays cool without a radiator in front of it, and how is that engine plumbed into the front radiator, since any picture of a twin engine set up, there isn't a radiator for the back engine. Not in the photos I've ever seen, and not that I've seen pics of all the twin engine set ups, but.... That's what's always caught my eye and got wondering.
     
  17. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    I might have the idea if I ever saw one in the flesh, but not in the pics I've seen of them.
     
  18. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,661

    XXL__
    Member

    A radiator doesn't need to be in front of an engine. It need only have airflow through it to draw away the radiated heat. There are plenty of examples of not-in-front-of-engine radiators... Baja trucks come to mind.

    In a twin engine setup, one could run 2 independent cooling systems with separate radiators, or plumb them together and use a single circulation system for both. On an OT turbo car I built some years ago, I had a pair of air-water intercoolers (I used 2 because of space constraints), both plumbed together, both fed by a single electric water pump, and each cooled with separate electric fans (they had very little direct air flow, again because of their mounting location, so the fans did all the work).
     
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  19. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    Thank you. So I get the whole, 2 engines run off of one cooling water plumbing, but how did you connect the back engine water pump flow with the front pump before it went into the radiator, just tee it in? Or do you have some sort of dual pipe access to the radiator with the back water pump circulating water directly to the radiator? It sounds like something if I saw in person, I could understand the engineering, it's just something that is difficult to visualize never seeing it before. (Other than the occasional photograph of someone's car build)
     
  20. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,632

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What if you just used one water pump? Maybe adapt a pump from a larger engine that has plenty of flow. Pump into the front, or rear engine. Then out of it into the other. Seriously, if connecting the water flow is a big problum for you, what is your plan for connecting the cranks? Throttle linkage? gauges.
     
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  21. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,661

    XXL__
    Member

    @RichFox beat me to it. Series or parallel... those are the basic choices for chaining 2 of anything together. Pick your poison. They both have advantages and disadvantages.
     
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  22. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    Yep. You're right. If you don't know something, don't bother asking questions to learn more about what you don't know, because of course you knew everything about everything you've ever done. I should have realized that.
     
  23. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    2 kinds of people out there. People who know something and enjoy others learning what they know and people who know something and are afraid of others knowing more than they do.
     
  24. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,661

    XXL__
    Member

    Calm down, please.
     
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  25. 19highboy32
    Joined: Feb 22, 2014
    Posts: 48

    19highboy32
    Member

    The attached links lead to articles relating to the work of Aussie engineer/inventor Eldred Norman. Amongst other things Eldred built himself a double V8 race car with two Mercury flatheads which he drove in long races and interstate. Clearly he had the linking of two engines and cooling problem beaten. Sadly he double V8 no longer exists, although his inovative Zephyr special still makes appearances at historic race meetings.

    [​IMG]
    https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/legendary-australian-inventor-and-racer-eldred-norman
    https://primotipo.com/tag/eldred-norman-double-8/
     
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  26. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,632

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No that was not my point at all. I do think that had you put some effort into considering your ques
    You did get a couple of answers. It is up to you to THINK about what you have been told. That is how you learn. I see you joined this forum because you wanted to build a VW based Rat Rod. I'm not sure what that would be. But it has been 7 years now and I guess no progress. Which is good as this place is quite anti Rat Rod
     
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  27. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    The reply was a bit nasty and I responded similarly.
     
  28. LeoH
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 462

    LeoH
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    Good to know folks like Rich are around to monitor who's in and who's not. Just proving my point between the two of you and your tone and response to the same question. Glad to know for those same 7 years, I haven't had many folks reply like Rich, for sure.
     
  29. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,661

    XXL__
    Member

    Calm down. You're not making any friends with the chip on your shoulder. You asked a pretty inane question at the start... and you seemed to have missed the actual tone of my first response indicating that. If you want to learn stuff, great... but picking a fight with @RichFox is probably not the way to go about it. He's forgotten more than many of us will ever know. Take his advice... THINK about the information you've been provided, then formulate the next step in the evolution of your understanding.

    /2 cents
     
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