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Technical Toploader Clutch Linkage In Model A

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by brianf31, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    Anyone have pictures of their 4-speed toploader clutch linkage set-up in a Model A or similar? I'm going with stock mechanical linkage (not hydraulic or cable), floor mounted pedals and Hurst shifter. I'd like to keep all the parts under the floor and on the frame.
     
  2. dang....bump this up.......
     
  3. Primered Forever
    Joined: Jul 7, 2008
    Posts: 399

    Primered Forever
    Member
    from Joplin,MO

  4. Which top loader? An early ford type like a 39 trans or later top loader 3 or four speed like from a mustang? The clutch linkage needs very different things weather it's an early or later 60's type top loader.
     

  5. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    wcben likes this.
  6. The stock type clutch linkage in a model A and fords up too 48 all had the clutch shafts that span the trans case under the input shaft with the throw-out fork mounted on the shaft. 32 to 39 had a simple one adjustable rod linkage from the clutch pedal to a lever on the clutch shaft. When you push the clutch in that moves the linkage rod forward, which pushes the lever on the clutch shaft forward, which pushed the throw- out fork and bearing forward to release the clutch. 40 to 48 works the same with the exception not using a lever on the clutch rod, but using what I always called a balance bar (I'm sure that's not what its called just what I call it) the linkage is attached to and the bar engages the clutch shaft with a pin through it the lock them together.
    Push rod link.PNG

    The linkage that was used with your Mustang toploader and bell housing, pushes the throw out fork from the front of the trans, not the rear like the original Ford linkage used. Because of that you will need a bell crank (Z-bar) to change the direction of the action from the clutch pedal. that way when you push the clutch pedal in it takes the forward action of the clutch linkage and applies force towards the rear of the car to push on the mustang throwout fork.
    mustang clutch.jpg

    You will have to build your own linkage set up to make this work but its not to hard. I would go to the junkyard and find some clutch linkage out of a mustang, Camaro, or Chevelle and modify it to work. or you could do a cable clutch linkage. My friend Dave (D-Russ here on the Hamb)did just this with his Model A Vicky and it works great. Here is a link to his build thread. there are pictures in there some where of wen he did the clutch cable setup. Killer car, it was even in Rodders Journal recently!

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ics-–-miss-vicky.277085/page-42#post-12199672
     
  7. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    Great, thanks. I actually have pedal assembly, bracket, z bar and rods from a '66 Mustang. But if I can find a cleaner example using under floor mounted pedals, I'll go that route.

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  8. I would look for an F1 pedal assembly. They have a flat mount and take a 39 to 48 car or 39 to 52 truck master cylinder, plus they have a flat mount. Not like 39 /40 pedals that have the mount at an angle. Put the pedals where they need to be, then you can build a linkage to suit, using the Z-bar from the Mustang (almost guaranteed that you will have to move the linkage arms around on the Z-bar.) and the linkage rods. The F1 truck pedals have the clutch linkage attachment point right on the pedal, not the shaft like on 39 pedals. That would make adapting them to a Z bar relatively easy. Done it twice this way both with a small chevy, and worked very well. Just watch the length of the arms on the Z bar. Try to keep them as close to the stock length as you can. That way the ratio stays the same and you don't end up with a really hard clutch pedal. Here are some F1 pedal pics I pulled off right here on the HAMB.
    F1 pedals.JPG F1pedal3.JPG F1pedals2.JPG
     
  9. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

  10. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    Alright, I have the trans mounted. It appears I'll have room for the F1 pedals. However, the steering box is going to interfere with the z bar mounting in the block. It looks like a cable might be the best solution here. Thoughts?

    trans installed in frame.jpg

    Anybody know the pedal ratio for an F1?
     
  11. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,400

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Maybe some of this will help. I have an F1 pedal box attached to a home made cross member. The pedal ratio should be about 11 to 1 from what I have been told. Ask me why I know that! :( Here are a few shots of my setup in an A frame. I have a 50 flathead with a 66 toploader 4 speed with the Jeep shift tower conversion. I used 46/47 clutch shaft components to make my set up. The clutch is now really easy to push in and out. A couple pics of the parts I used and how they are installed. I have an F1 steering box in mine so I was able to mount the bracket to the bell housing. You may be able to come off the tranny mount area and have the linkage pull the throw out arm instead of push it. You'd just have to mount the cross shaft upside down for that. The brake stuff is mounted the same as in an F1.

    What motor and bell housing are you using?

    20170226_200519.jpg
    20170404_142933.jpg
    20170404_142947.jpg
     
  12. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,400

    GordonC
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    Better view of cross shaft mounting. I have adjustment on the clutch rod from the clutch pedal to the cross shaft and also from the cross shaft to the throw out arm. Pic was taken at a little bit of an angle but shaft is more horizontal than it looks.

    20170404_143030.jpg
     
  13. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    Thanks Gordon. I'm running a 351C with 351 toploader bell.
     
  14. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,400

    GordonC
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    Ah, couldn't quite place the bell housing. One other note, I had another ear added to the clutch pedal later on so I could move the clutch rod to the inside of the clutch arm so it wouldn't hit the frame. Plus it made the rod straighter.
     
    brianf31 likes this.
  15. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    Dang these F1 pedals are tall! To get the clutch pedal pad at 8" off the floor (a comfortable height), It looks like I'll have about 3" of pedal assembly bracket and master cylinder hanging below the bottom of the frame rail (4" tall rail). What are some typical location dimensions?

    I'll have to tweak the arms with a torch to clear the steering column. I won't have much room for a z-bar due to the steering box. I may use a cable. that might work out since the pedal ratio alone is 13"/2" = 6.5:1. Factoring in the clutch fork ratio, I'll be a little over 11:1 at the throw out bearing.
     

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  16. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,400

    GordonC
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    Don't forget that your floor boards in the pedal area are most likely slanting up at about a 45 degree angle as well. Plus you need to consider your subframe, body mounts, shims, and so on... On mine the center crossmember and pedal box does hang down below the lower edge of my frame just a little bit. Not a problem for me as I am running a hi boy.
     
  17. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,400

    GordonC
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    Would make it easier to figure out if you mounted your cowl to the frame.
     
  18. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
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    Hope that isn't your frame rail weld shown in the picture or you are going to have way more problems when you let the clutch out.
     
  19. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 702

    brianf31
    Member

    Haha, I knew someone would catch that! I couldn't get to it around my clamps and fixture so it's a temp booger weld that will be ground out and re-welded.
     
  20. synchro7
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 341

    synchro7
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    I did something similar. I'm running a 65 289 and 3+1 od trans. Where my A is currently stored in my shop, I can't get to it for pics.
     
    -Brent- likes this.
  21. 1oldtimer
    Joined: Aug 21, 2003
    Posts: 8,023

    1oldtimer
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  22. MIKE STEWART
    Joined: Aug 23, 2016
    Posts: 273

    MIKE STEWART

    The industrial chassis 39 brake/clutch looks great to simplify the linkage and eliminate the z bar. Anyone with experience with this product?


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  23. 55styleliner
    Joined: May 11, 2015
    Posts: 558

    55styleliner
    Member

    These are actually larger F-2 pedals (got them not knowing the difference. They work perfectly!! With my set up they are pretty much in the same location as the stock pedals were.

    IMG_0197.JPG IMG_0198.JPG
     
    30tudor and brianf31 like this.

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