When it all comes down, isn't it about money? I mean heads up racing limits the competition...just to the top runners. Limiting heads up racing and having more racers equals more dollars...racers and spectators. I don't like it any more than you, but that's what makes it profitable for a strip owner. It's all about dollars, not what a few old schoolers like us prefer.
Other than doing this for myself, I think it would be neat to show the young people something a little different. At least give them a little taste of something different. But for myself not having to do between rounds complete tear downs is a big plus. Sure you have to keep an eye on the bearings till the tuneup is happy and oil changes are a must, but the majority of the time it should be routine, run the valves ect. that is if I can still build a 427. Lippy
I was just pointing out that maybe those old timers would've liked working in the shade, maybe even with ,God forbid, fans blowing on them, instead of sweating their nuts off in the hot sun. They could still flog their machines in T shirts, cursing up a storm, only in the shade. Nothing about hospitality trailers. I,too, prefer seeing drag racers in T shirts rather than the corporate uniforms that are the norm today.
This is like two bald men fighting over a hairbrush. If you dig this stuff, then enjoy it. If you wish for the "way it was", go buy some DVDs, grab a couple of beers, plop yourself in front of the tube and take the phone off the hook, cause that's as close as your going to get to the "Golden Age". That era will not come back, but my hat is off to anyone who wants to try to get even somewhat close.
I know for a fact that shade, A/C, fans, cold drinks, food, smokes and all those other nice to have things at the races were not on our minds back then. We didn't have them so we didn't miss them. Would they have been nice,,,damn right, but we could even afford cameras much less fans or shade,,,LOL. Besides, it didn't get so hot "back in the day". At least it sure didn't seem like it. I have pictures of me and some of the guys going bare feet at the drags in August in South Texas. I can't even imagine me doing that now,,,sheeeet man, I'm a wus now.
So I gotta ask the obvious questions 1) If you had the choice, would you have liked to have them? 2) Given that you're a "seasoned veteran" today, would you go without them? I didn't have them either, but I was just racing hotrods at the Antique Nats, all I cared about was the condition of my engine, getting it cooled down and ready for the next run. BUT - I was a LOT younger then . . . now, heck I'd probably have much more fun today, not take myself so serious and enjoy the shade, a cool can of pop and look at what was going on around me a bit more. I'd probably go faster anyway . . . cause I've learned a bit since then!
This and the Donovan in the FED kinda make we wonder. Are folks after "the way it was" or an illusion of "the way it was"? I guess the question could be applied to the whole traditional movement though. Larry T
I think Moozma1 put this to the point as well as it could be. This thread otherwise is the same deal as always, anyone not agreeing with the pack gets jumped on. Even if the first hand input some of these guys claim to is real. It all pertains if you want to be the public face of the nostalgia movement, talk 60's tire smokers and "getting it" you are going to have those who don't quite see it your way. There are a few things he talks about that I fully agree with and his interest is similar to my own. Looking at his dragster and listening to his speech he has his own twist on things so I guess I don't get it either. Some want every dated nut and bolt and others are happy just to see something front motored run. Any iron engine would have swayed me farther into agreement as well as a non spliced main rail...but it's his let him have it. What I don't get is all this art this art that while he is pretending to work on the car. For me "art" is stone, clay and canvas. A dragster is a machine....art stands still and generally won't kill you without some effort. The skill and experience that goes into a building every part of any car needs and deserves a different word.... All I think of anymore when people say art are those distorted rat billy scribbles and cam shafts made into lamps... The flake, stripes and logos added to it all but these cars were bad ass because form followed function not the other way around. Regardless, if this Tim guy gets a positive response to making any Nostalgia event more like it was more power to him. My hat will be off to him...Even a few more events where a real vintage car could make a pass at speed would be nice. It may take some silly shit video like this nowadays to get the idea across that the modern version misses the mark for many. I go to every drag event I can and I'm tired of seeing Jegster sling shots and nose up prostreeters, the closer we can get to a "way back machine" version of things the better.
The iron block fuel cars of the mid 60s probably only made 1200 or1300hp. He built a NHRA Legal Front Motor Top Fuel car. That has the look of the 60s better than any other cars built, in my opinion. Look at all the other modern Nostalgia Top Fuel cars today. And more than 85 pecent of them suck. In looks. Yeah they are what they are. They are years of evolving. Conders car is one of those but with "the look". Has a Donovan because it will make a modern 2500hp. And a iron 92 wouldnt live with that hp. Correct me if im wrong about that Lippy or Tony. This is a traditional hot rod board. So I would think everyone here would agree with what he is saying. Everyone here building 32s, model A's , tail draggers, customs , bobbers or whatever. Are doing it in a traditional manner. With the look. Of set period. In Conders case it is a 1965 Fuel car. That can tech. And make gobs of hp. It has the look of the old cars. With the safety of todays cars. Hell if he ground the word Donovan off of the motor and painted the whole thing black. More than half of the people wouldnt know the difference. If he wanted to build a TOTAL period fuel car he would be sittin in the Cackle Fest with those guys. He wants to sit in the Nostalgia Top Fuel pits. But have the look that we all love. And that is why I have been interested in his deal since I first got a computer in 2003 and stumbled across his site. It was the first modern dragster that I ever liked. And here today still think it is the best. I thought that his passion in his voice while talkin in the video was a powerful thing to me. When he does run this car I will do anything in my power to be there to be a "donkey" for him. Because I feel the exact same way he does. Except Im doing it on a smaller scale. KING
More power to him - I wish I could be in that league, but it's simply far far too much $$ for me. The suggestion that the vintage hauler and pit bike makes him into what he dislikes I think is a tad over the top. I mean I'm way way way down below Tim's level and I've put to gether a FED riding on a homebuilt trailer pulled with an old truck & even I managed a pit vehicle - not quite up to alot of other's standards, but remember I'm on the bottom rung of the ladder (ok so maybe I'm staring UP at the bottom rung of the laddder). So - YES - I get it - well somewhat I do. I built what I could afford - it won't be competitive - it's not a tire smoker but it IS a window into the past. I won't see quite as far as Tim does but I do see some stuff - and I gotta tell you it's pretty damn cool.......even mistakenly doing a burnout with too much water on the slicks and getting spritzed in the face with the water.....gettin' off the throttle a little too fast after the burnout and gettin' the car to bounce as you ease into the brakes....watching the tires smoke inches away from you....strapped in the car sittin' waitin' dyin' for YOUR turn to make some noise....even the embarassing things like having a chute pop on the starting line (my first pass)....gettin pulled back down the return road - bouncing a little - shit eating grin on your face....even towing out - unloading the car - I truely love every aspect of it all. Can I imagine what it'd be like to run a SERIOUS car - well I can try, but in the meantime I'll enjoy my no budget ride as much as humanly possible. I can't relate to the high dollar guys, but at the same time I CAN appreciate all their efforts. Tire smokers at the strip in modern times - more power to ya!!! I don't care how they get it done - it's another window to the past - a very very cool past.
Lary Larson's Nova runs low 7's at over 200mph... and he competed in HRM's street car competition... where he drove over 1000 miles to five different racks over five days WITH NO SUPPORT VEHICLE! I would say there are very vew "hot rods" that could manage that. http://www.hotrod.com/dragweek/hrdp_0910w_2009_drag_week_coverage/index.html Sam
and here it is, on the strip and right through the middle of the Las Vegas Strip... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH-y2mxYS6c&feature=player_embedded
Has this post taken on a life of its own, or what, with excellent points from many people who "get it". There has to be a new organization to come to the forefront for nostalgia drag racing and the debate will obviously continue as to what is pure nostalgia or what is not.... I guess who really cares as long as what ever car it is, was built with the spirit of nostalgia drag racing in mind with regards to safety. Cackle cars, well it is kool to watch, however; lets race a legal car as each and every rule was written in our fore runners blood. By the way, itsn't this exactly what Tim Conder would want and is indirectly achieving with this post? I think this is great, way to go Mr. Conder. But hell, it is a Donovan hemi, so does that car have the spirit of nostalgic drag racing. My opinion, a big huge hell ya.... NHRA, etc. has totally lost the spirit of drag racing and does not care, until which time, we all start attending vintage drag events with the stands full.......
All i can say is Tim Conder and King Chassis they get it .Most people don't so if you don't get it go look at 32 build. And leave this up to the people that live it. These cars didn't get built over nite they have years in these cars. love the look and keep it up guys .
I think a lot more people 'get it' than some of us might want to acknowledge. I'd say with the hamb at almost 90K members now, it is maybe safe to say a fair number of us 'get it'. Tim isn't the only one by a long shot - thankfully.
No question . . . we might not agree on the 'last 20%' of traditional TF, but we're all over the first 80%. Nobody agreed on exactly what a TF car needed to look like in the 60's . . . we sure as hell are not going to do so today. Let's just get some real heads up traditional TF racing going -- I'll attend ALL of those I can get to!
This is soooo frustrating for me...because the nature of a fuel motor is so different than anything you guys are familiar with, you just don't grasp it, and are always attempting to apply gas or alky logic to it. Condors Donovan CANNOT make 2500 horsepower unless it is hooked and loaded. Spinning the tires, that 2500 horsepower motor will probably only generate 7 or 8 hundred horsepower. A nitro motor is LOAD SENSITIVE. If there's no load, there will be no power. The power will go out the pipes as unburned fuel. This is why things like super lightweight and streamlined Fuelers never functioned correctly. The Jocko-Liner is the perfect example of this dynamic at work. This is why Fuelers "drop cylinders". The motor will decide, on it's own, how many cylinders it needs to perform the work placed against it. A hotter mag will not help. The mag will light the fuel, but unless there is sufficient resistance, the flame front will not work it's way through the liquid quickly enough to actually perform any work against the piston. It will drop that cylinder after just a couple of cold cycles even if you had the flames of Hell trying to light the shit up top. So, the engine leaves, finds no load, sheds cylinders until the balance is found, and then attempts to dig in. When it does this, the remaining working cylinders carry the entire load...ACTUALLY OVER PRODUCE! and the torsional imbalance and hammering will try to throw the crank on the ground. On the other hand, a dead stock 392 with a small blower and a lean/mean tune-up will zing right up to it's happy RPM. Iron motors require less fuel/less mag to run happy...they're cleaner....then the short, sharp power pulses will keep the driveline in a state of harmonic noise that will keep the tires from wanting to ever grab the track. In this example, the modern Donovan is a butter knife and the 392 is a chainsaw. The iron motor will live forever under these conditions. Iron motors only show their weakness when they are lugged in a more modern application. Condors Donovan would be fine, if he swapped everything from the head gaskets up with parts dated no later than 1965. Ditto with the cam, pump and fuel system. Am I making any sense here?????? Back to what I said in a previous post...What you guys want to do is not only possible, it's downright EASY, if you follow the formulas laid out by the cars that did these things back in the day. If you attempt to take modern components and any sort of fuel/ignition system that is a product of later evolution, you will hurt these things in big, huge, expensive ways that you cannot comprehend. Yes, I know this because I have blown up everything you can blow up...fuckin BOOM! I'm building a slingshot tire smoker, and I have a choice between a cast iron 307 Chevy, or the mill straight outta John Force's Flopper...I'm going with the little Chevy because IT HAS A CHANCE OF LIVING!
White Punk, Have you done a "FED 360"? <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KzmquQKO4T0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KzmquQKO4T0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> This post has taken an interesting ride........the people that are out there doing it and the ones that are typing. I wish that I was doing, but with a 4 month old and a few life changes........maybe in the future. Or I can live thru Conder & Fox. Chris
White Punk: I agree with everything you said about iron blocks and loading the motor, etc. But there might be more than one way to skin this cat. I want to see how Conder's deal works out, that's all.
Like Frank Oglesby always says.....When it comes to nitro, there's a hundred ways to skin a cat and the cat he don't like none of em. Sam, good points. I keep forgetting the heading of this thread. I keep wanting to talk tire smokers and nitro, not who's right or wrong. Lippy (freezing his nuts) in Ks.
That is why I said correct me if Im wrong. Oh and I love the "fuckin BOOM!" part. And as to Sodbusters 360 question. I hope no one else does one of those. It is hard to drive a car with the tires in the air. And that is why the ghost has 40lbs on the front of it now.
First thanks for posting this and for all the comments you all have made. I hate to do it, but I gotta get "Montel" on this loon Matt Basher...Conder Custom is alive and well thanks. Dumbass. My "investors" are waiting to see what happens next, as usual. I've had a website called armageddon top fuel up for nearly 9 years giving credit to everyone who've helped with these cars. I've written articles published in national magazines thanking them. If all you fine folks take anything away from that youtube deal make it this please...ANYTHING is possible when people work together. The right combination of DNA makes ANYTHING POSSIBLE. Sometimes the "Golden Age of Drag Racing" had it. We could have it now. You don't have to go back in time to do it. Abd if you're gonna talk shit, CALL ME ON THE PHONE!!!
The Jalopy Journal
