Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

I like it! Thanks! It looks like he's using the same tires I have, Cooper Cobras. I like how he did the side nerf bars. I'm planning similar bars.

One of these years...

 

Spent some quality time in the garage today on a lathe, making port plugs. Here's some pictures. Self explanatory. Here's a picture of the master cylinder with the plugs in. Now to reassemble it and mount it in the Whatever project! Amazing how much time a simple little project can consume...

 

Hey, Dave;
Not sure where exactly the m/c & c/c are going to end up under the cowl/dash, but if it can be gotten sorta-close to the firewall, an access hole could be cut into the cowl top, replicating a cowl-vent. I have a T cowl(somewhere twixt '12->'25) that in the distant past some fresh-air-fiend put in a cowl vent. Guess it's not like T roadsters have much ventilation... If not near the cowl center, a nice flip-up access equivalent to a gas cap would blend in nicely. On the dash, maybe a "tunneled" version like Ivo's, but driver side not tunneled? Should still allow door to open. Looks slick w/the hood lines.
Marcus...

 

Been rethinking the setup. There appears to be just enough room to get a pair of pull rods straight down from the pedal arms, which precipitously are perpendicular to the pedal arms, to a set of bell cranks mounted below the main frame rail and just above the lower frame tubes. I think I can then mount the master cylinders under the floor. I'll be making the bits and bobs over the next couple of days and will post pictures then, even if it doesn't work out.

 

Hey, more progress - alright!

Is Old Mangy at your engine builder's yet? Or is that too many irons in the fire right now?

 

Not yet. Funny story (now). Had both blocks and cranks in the Equinox, along with the rods and pistons from old mangy. Called Jack to see if he was going to be at his shop that afternoon or the next morning.

So he says to me, can you hold off, as he's buried in race engines being mid season refreshed. Of course. Because he has always been really good to me the way we have worked on projects.

So back out of the car and into a corner of the garage for a few weeks, probably late August, early September. Meanwhile I'll be using the cleaner old block for setup if necessary. I'm not really in a hurry because I have so much welding yet to do.

Besides, I can always get a crate engine as a stand in if necessary to get it running. Would be a good spare...

 

Dave;
Monkey-motion is always cool - makes the wuffos eyes glaze & the mouth-breathers drool... .
What was the famous saying - when asked why he'd do those things? "Because I can!" ...
Marcus...

 

I made a steering wheel decades ago from some aerospace alclad sheet, at the time considered unobtaneum. It was leftover from an experimental project at the research firm I worked for. Don't really remember what the core alloy is, just that it's really good stuff. Then clad in a very thin layer of pure aluminum on each side. It turns out that it's very good for corrosion protection.
Just got it back. Long story so I won't get into it. Going to make a template from it and have a few blanks cut out by waterjet. Cut the original by hand using a jigsaw and vixen files. That was not fun...

It's 17 inches in diameter and the grip is a section of tygon tube slit and taped to the flat rim section.

Still struggling with the brake and clutch master cylinder linkages. Now I have to get some small diameter tubing for pull rods. And the fun continues...

 

Now that is R&D.

 

You'd think I would have learned by now. Space is limited everywhere I would like to mount the master cylinders. Under the floor, up over the bellhousing, on the firewall...

I don't really like the idea of mounting them out here. They'd be just to the right of the bolt kind of visible on the drivers side of the firewall with the tops of the reservoirs just below the hood line. That is, if there's room above the left cylinderhead. Got to put a dummy block and head in it to check. Fortunately I can mock up everything without the body, so I'll also be removing the body again!

Opinion time: give me feedback on the options I see, and if someone has an alternative to those 3, please, please post it.

 

I like the idea of mounting the MC under the cowl, at right angles to the pedal. That is what I plan to do with my Attic Anglia project.
Similar to this

 

Very interesting. That looks like it sets the pedal closer to the firewall as well. That could give a little more wiggle room for the toes...

That and possibly mechanical linkage for the clutch.

I guess tomorrow I'll make a mock up and see if that could be a solution. Thanks

 

Have you ever thought about building a bigger car??

Also, have one additional steering wheel cut out and let me know what I owe you. Unless the big Speedway version is cheaper...

 

We'll call it a birthday or Christmas present! I'm thinking that I will have 4 or 5 cut out. The biggest part of the cost is the programming. So only getting 1 made is expensive. The unit cost drops dramatically with volume.

Hey I'm sounding like your father, the business program graduate! Oh no...

 

Back allowed back in the garage today! Worked on the pedals and master cylinder mountings. That's the brake master, and if it survives the cut and HAMB opinions, that bracket will be fully welded and gussetted to minimize flex. Here it is back in the whatever. I really like my old hand made 17 inch diameter steering wheel, but unfortunately it ain't gonna work! My stubby legs don't clear it withthecurrent length steering column.

And unfortunately the Mini electricals and steering column shroud doesn't clear the master. So it's off! I can probably use the turn signal switch, if I make my own small shroud around it. But the old shroud and ignition switch is Outta Here!

So here it is with the 13 inch deep dish wheel again, for now. And seeing as how the master sticks past the Speedway dash, I guess I'm going to be making a half cowl extension: Yeah I'm still not very good at inserting multiple pictures at once and getting them in some semblance of order that makes sense. The last picture shows where the reservoir will be. Hence the ugly lump mockup is back on the whatever. Tomorrow I am going to get out some pink insulation board and cut and shape it MUCH better. We'll see what that looks like...

I'm expecting a bunch of scrap. Anyone want to place bets on how many attempts?

Just looked at the pictures myself, and realized I didn't discuss the master push rod. When the pedal is adjusted correctly, it moves thru the full 1.1 inches of travel of the Wilwood master, and midstroke it is perfectly straight to the bore. The effective pedal ratio is just under 6:1. The cylinder is a 1 inch bore master, for an effective area of 0.7854 sq. in.

So assuming I can generate 100 pounds of force on the pedal, there will be 600 pounds force on the master. With the size of the master, 1 inch or 0.7854 sq. in., that gives 764 psi give or take a psi. I'm using calipers with 2.5 inch pistons to start on the front, slightly smaller on the rear due to the internal emergency brake mechanism, and that gives about 3750 pounds clamping force at the calipers, slightly less on the rears.

That should woa up a sub 2000 pound track roadster type car. Some day in the future if I get crazy, and locate some Buick drums, I should still have enough pressure given the wide variations of available wheel cylinder bore sizes that can be made to work. And that takes me back to MY dirt track days, messing with wheel cylinder sizes to affect the response at individual wheels to affect handling. But enough of that for now. First get it running with what I got!

 

Can you turn the cylinder 90 degrees and hide it under the dash, rather than create a bumpout? Throw in a bell crank or two or sumpthin?

 

Yeah I hate the lump! I took it apart today, to remove the body. I'll bolt the cowl support hoop and the firewall assembly back on after getting it up on jack stands.

I'm going to take another look at putting the cylinders under the floor and using a bell crank assembly. Getting the body out of the way and getting it up on jack stands will make it easier to crawl around under the chassis to figure out how to make it all fit and work.

Fortunately the firewall assembly fits the same with or without the body, and I can determine foot clearance as the diagonal braces actually limit foot room. Now if I can figure out how to brace a bell crank shaft...

More tomorrow and pictures!

 

Pictures first:
Apart and up in the air. Next is reassemble the firewall assembly and see if I can figure out how to make the pedals work the master cylinders. Where they end up is also up in the air...

 

Remember the pedals and master cylinder hanging here? I just couldn't make it work and look like something that doesn't look like an afterthought. So it's out of here! The pedals are back under the floor in the mount previously installed.
Here's the 2 pedals and a first attempt at the push rod to the brake master cylinder.
Here's the master cylinder mocked up under the floor way back under the seats. It looks like a good place for the master cylinders, and the push rod arcs thru the range of travel will be minimized by the length of the push rod.

So next step is to fabricate a mounting bracket for the master cylinders and a crossmember to tie it into for support. 1 step forward, 1 1/2 steps back...

Oh, and I get to fabricate a mounting bracket for the steering column AGAIN! 3rd times a charm!

 

Hi Dave, I know you have a plan but thought I would show a pic of how I did my pedals. I was thinking you could do this with a few bell cranks and keep your hanging pedals.

 

Actually I'm really glad you posted the picture. Where you are is where I'm going. And seeing it in iron and steel shows that it should work. Regardless of the pedals hanging or sticking up, it still only has so much room where the pedal pads actually end up, for me to be able to get my wiiiide feet on them.

Looking at the picture, I can't see why it won't work for me. As I have a lot of vertical space between the 2x3 rails and the 1 1/2 bottom tubes I should be able to make a bracket for the master cylinders like you did, and I might be able to make it hold the cylinders side by side.

 

BTW, I recognize the transmission, but not the engine. Where did it come from? Maybe I should reconsider engine options...

 

That is my MerCruiser 4 cyl. lots of mods to it though. The head is a boss 429 head. My car had a 327 in it when I got it.

 

And I still don't know where I am going to put a gas pedal. Body should go on for the final time soon and then it will come to me how to get that done.

 

Now that's a very interesting engine. Did you post a thread on the building of the engine? Probably not in the budget, but it certainly looks wild.

Of course if I were to find one of the old Chevy 2 Mercury Marine 4 bangers, that would be a good fit. Bellhousing already matches...

Well I'm a sbc guy so a 327 it's going to be.

 

Both mercury marine 4 cyl engines use a Chevy bellhousing bolt pattern. No build thread because it's sorta off topic here, but there is a thread here, The Elusive 224/3.7 Mercruiser banger, that has a lot of it in there, but its 98 pages long.

 

Yeah I have read thru it. Well, not a full perusal, more of a Cliff Notes read thru, but all 98 pages looked at mostly. A couple of friends are into boats, you know, holes in the water that you throw your money into, and they're keeping their eyes open for one for me. I'm thinking that if I get one someday it could end up in the Whatever project or maybe another idea I have. Besides a couple of daily drivers, the only 4 bangers I've worked on are A-series Austin engines. Fun little engines, basic architecture goes back to the previous flathead 4 Austin engines.

Kind of like a flathead, only 3 mains. But they can be revved to 8, 9000 rpm. But too small for my idea.

In the meantime I've got some building to do, and I'll get the small blocks to the engine shop.

 

Get that T10 together yet? I was looking for some else and found a Ford cast iron T10 in my piles of stuff.

 

Not yet. It's on my to-do list... Still working on the pedals and master cylinders. Top picture shows the pedals and the extension on each to get the ratio and angles where I think I want them. We'll just have to wait and see. I can remake the extensions if need be once the master cylinders are mounted. They're going under the seats.

2nd picture shows the push rod with the adjuster and clevis. It's so nice using sharp cutting tools. New left hand dies to make the adjuster. That's the 3rd picture.

 

Made the bracketry for the master cylinders today and basically just plaigerized your setup. Cut out a bracket for both of the master cylinders, a couple of 3-4-5 gussets, and got it tacked mostly together and roughly positioned. Your picture was a really good inspiration...

I'll have more tomorrow when I get it all tacked into place and the push rods cut to length, well initial length. There may be some fettling to do still to get my feet to fit on them and make them work. I suppose I should start thinking about the floor and gas pedal as well. And make a final decision on the steering column support that needs to be redone AGAIN!