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The Ultimate 235 Hop up Thread.......

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SLAMIT, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. Curt B
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 325

    Curt B
    Member

  2. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member


    Did you read the whole thing? if you have a '48-newer truck (or a truck bellhousing), this part is of no use for you....
     
  3. SLAMIT
    Joined: Sep 9, 2002
    Posts: 929

    SLAMIT
    Member

    BBBuuuummmmmppppp! lets hear more about these great little engines.
     
  4. Killer
    Joined: Jul 5, 2001
    Posts: 1,569

    Killer
    Member

    [​IMG]

    54 235. 30 over Jahns popups. 848 head. McGurk cam. D&S intake, dual Chrysler ball and ball carbs. Mallory dist. Started with a split exhaust manifold, ended with a tube header.

    Fun. Had a sound I'll never forget. Shoulda kept it (the motor... still have the car)...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  5. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,912

    Dyce
    Member

    I documented a head I built for 6inarow a while back. I angle milled that head 1/16 (.0625) and flat milled it the rest of the way. If you can take more off of the combustion chamber side it dosn't quite effect the intake valves as much. Even if you do run pistons with the bumps milling allows you to do more work to the cumbustion chamber without reducing the volume.
    Here are a couple links to the album and the thread I started. For some reason the pictures don't show up. I'll try to fix that when I have more time.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/album.php?albumid=10779
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276475
    Anyone ever spend time on one of these heads with a flow bench? I'd like to try raising the exhaust valves a little out of the pocket and tip the spark plug up tward the piston.
     
  6. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 33,853

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks Dyce, I was going to post teh same questions tonight!

    Lets talk FLOW, what to do to get one of these Stovebolts breathing WITH a stock head!?
     
  7. Lotek_Racing
    Joined: Sep 6, 2006
    Posts: 690

    Lotek_Racing
    Member

    See my earlier post :D
     
  8. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    what would be a good electronic ignition system to replace my points in the 58 belair 235....maybe a website or 2,,,im tryin to order some stuff soon,,thanks,,and what else could i possibly do?
     
  9. Lotek_Racing
    Joined: Sep 6, 2006
    Posts: 690

    Lotek_Racing
    Member

    You can use a Ford TFI module to fire a high energy coil with your existing points. Your points will last much longer because they no longer carry primary voltage, they just act as a trigger for the TFI module.

    You get to keep your correct (looking and functioning) distributor, you can hide the TFI module easily and if anything takes a dump all you do is replace the condenser and change a wire to go back to your old point-and-condenser system.

    You need the grey TFI module without pins on the side. Look for early 90's 5.0

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,912

    Dyce
    Member

    If you have any more info on the flow test, or pictures of the crossections I would thank you very much if you could share. The pictures you posted answered a few questions for me already.... Have you flowed a head with the valves recessed and compared it to a head with the valve seat flush after milling? A nice transition area between the deck of the head and the valve can be a good thing too.
     
  11. Curt B
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 325

    Curt B
    Member

    I suck at documenting but every alteration I have done involves zero handwork and is 100% repeatable on a machining center so one day I plan to just load it in the mill and hit start. I am farming out valve seating and flow bench work and am still waiting for numbers with larger powerglide intake valves but haven’t pushed either. My major observations so far are:

    Don’t ream/enlarge the runner from the manifold side as I’m told it is already big enough to support a Hemi. Cutting here makes the sharp turn at the sides where it opens up even worse resulting in the charge failing to negotiate the turn, bouncing off the back wall and becoming disorganized. Even a wedge, lump, or turtle shape on the back wall didn’t improve things much. The sharp turn to the valve at the sides is THE worst feature.<O:p

    Exhaust flow is the bigger issue and is partially restricted by a bulge in the chamber wall. An Inliner documented his efforts using a piloted tool which I tried and have yet to submit for flow testing but this method seems to sacrifice a lot of chamber wall. I have gone there with a lollipop cutter but again have no numbers yet. Here’s his post on the subject:<O:p

    “My 848 head's intake ports have been opened up and ported just as it was detailed in the hop up article written by Frank McGurk and published in the May, 1955 issue of "Hot Rod" magazine.
    This head was ported in the early 60's and has not been used since the previous owner switched to the later engines when thay became available in 1963.
    I purchased the head for my 261, and had it 'freshened' up, (cleaned, new large powerglide valves, springs, etc.) by a very reputable speed shop in my area.
    While he was at it, I had three cylinders flowed on his 'SuperFlow' flow bench when he was done. I thought you might be interested in the results.
    As freshened, the intakes flowed 200 cfm at .500 valve lift at 28" depression. At that point, the flow 'stalled', indicating port saturation. In other words, increasing the valve lift had no further affect.
    Surprisingly, the exhaust was far more restrictive than the intake. As originally tested, the three exhaust ports chosen 'stalled' at 100 cfm, again at .500 valve lift. The graph generated showed a very large dip in the flow at .300 valve lift. All ports tested were very consistant with these results!
    Looking closely at the exhaust valve and the combustion chamber, it was noticed that the combustion chamber wall bulges in towards the edge of the valve, before receding away as the valve opened further! The chamber wall shrouds the exhaust valve at exactly .300 lift! This was clearly indicated by the exhaust flow graph.
    The speedshop machinist piloted a small boring bar in the exhaust valve guide, and opened up the chamber wall to unshroud the valve, and the ports were retested. Now, the exhaust flow increased to 120 cfm, again at .500 lift, and the large dip in the flow was gone!
    The results were 200 cfm intake, 120 cfm exhaust, all at 28" depression, .500 lift, and a smooth flow curve.
    I hope that some of you may find this interesting. Toolman”<O:p

    Here’s a couple pic’s of the chamber shaping and the flow bench adapter and for full section views click on webshots in my signature and then the 848 head album
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 33,853

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks Curt
     
  13. Hawaiianstyle
    Joined: Jul 8, 2009
    Posts: 113

    Hawaiianstyle
    Member

  14. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,912

    Dyce
    Member

    Thanks Curt!! Really the flow numbers are better then I thought. A 261 has the same cid per cylinder as a 350. I have to do some calculations to see what your flow data will support for rpm. A gain at .300 lift is better then a gain at max lift.

    I wonder if there would be any improvements to exhaust flow by changing the wall on the intake valve side of the chamber. It reminds me of releiving the block on a flathead in a way.

    On the cam, has anyone really done much testing on grinds for this engine? With the location of the exhaust valve I wonder if the engine would be affected by high overlap the same? My gut tells me you could run more duration without getting reversion. Any thoughts?
     
  15. terd ferguson
    Joined: Jun 13, 2008
    Posts: 3,664

    terd ferguson
    Member

    You're totally welcome! I whole heartedly recommend Patrick's. He's very knowledgeable. And don't be put off if a sweet lady answers the phone, she knows quite a bit too.
     
  16. Hawaiianstyle
    Joined: Jul 8, 2009
    Posts: 113

    Hawaiianstyle
    Member

    I saw this over on another thread and figured you guys could appreciate this.

     

    Attached Files:

  17. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,912

    Dyce
    Member

    Anyone have any insite on the cam? This discussion is to good to let it die out!!!
     
  18. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,591

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Frank McGurk pioneered dual pattern cams for Chevy sixes with good results. He found that the engines really responded to more lift and duration on the exhaust lobe.
     
  19. nukeGM
    Joined: Apr 27, 2007
    Posts: 103

    nukeGM
    Member

    :rolleyes:


    Oh yeah,
    and in 1943 I'm pretty well sure the guys with the stock V8's were looking out for you and your terds





    oooooh yeah,




    ;)

    .
     
  20. ftwkustom
    Joined: Feb 5, 2009
    Posts: 37

    ftwkustom
    Member
    from michigan

    subscribed!!

    happy to see this thread.

    i have a 58 235 im buildin with a mcculloch supercharger.

    gonna be pretty wild i hope. its going in a 51 chevy kustom so i dont really need the crazy horsepower or anything. would be nice but im building it look and sound crazy as i plan on driving the hell out of it once done.

    this thread has alot of helpful info for sure!
     
  21. rajcam79
    Joined: Nov 6, 2009
    Posts: 160

    rajcam79
    Member
    from S.E. MI


    I thought I read they have two part numbers, one car bell housing and the for the truck. I could be wrong though.
     
  22. AZRacer2000
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 12

    AZRacer2000
    Member

    If you look at the article below, even McGurk used EXHAUST heat for his manifold! Its quicker to heat up and the FACTORY did it too when your was all one piece! JMHO....
     
  23. LameExcuse
    Joined: Jan 5, 2009
    Posts: 57

    LameExcuse
    Member
    from Renton, WA

    I use one Pertronix Ignitor with a 50,000 volt coil. Then I can open the spark plug gap an extra .010+

    http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx
     
  24. Hawaiianstyle
    Joined: Jul 8, 2009
    Posts: 113

    Hawaiianstyle
    Member

    Hey guys, I am in the process of collecting parts for my 50 GMC buld. What carb's are best to use with the Offy 2X1 (or 3X1) intake, on a slightly warmed over 235 (milled heads, 3/4 cam)?
     
  25. Curt B
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 325

    Curt B
    Member


    Here's a good place to start:

    http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Dual1barrelcarbs.htm

    Even the best carbs will lead to disappointment if they are too much for the application or if poorly syncronized which is highly likely with a lame "adjust by bending" linkage. My opinion is that an intake with a pivoting rod/threaded ball joints is what is needed to have a streetable setup that stays put.
     
  26. SLAMIT
    Joined: Sep 9, 2002
    Posts: 929

    SLAMIT
    Member

    Cant wait to see that truck back on the road. Althoug I still wish it were mine Buwawawawa.
     
  27. Hawaiianstyle
    Joined: Jul 8, 2009
    Posts: 113

    Hawaiianstyle
    Member

    Its all good bud, I think you are going to like what my plans are for it, hopped up 235, white walls, 4" drop, freshen up the drive train the drive it until the wheels fall off.
     
  28. clayburn
    Joined: Mar 18, 2010
    Posts: 12

    clayburn
    Member

    I just picked up a 1960 apache. It's got an inline six, but I don't know which one. How do I find out which one I have? Does any one sell mounts to install a vintage air system on one? Thanks for the help.
     
  29. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,119

    hotdamn
    Member

    BTTT!!! ftwkustom, did you ever get that supercharger on there????

    lets see some pics, I'm kindly dreaming about a blown 261 in a model A with a lasalle trans and a steep gear in the back!
     
  30. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,233

    Cosmo49
    Member

    Two Carter-Weber 2 barrels on a 50's Edelbrock 216 intake, '56 235, '848 head'. Four bolt plates installed by 'Buffalo Steve' on the left coast, rather, Washington state. Maiden voyage 18.7 mpg on a 1k round trip and that was 65-75 mph. Engine is smooth and stronger, pulls over the mountain pass near me at 65 mph.

    [​IMG]


    '62 3sp+od, '57 3.90 rear, daily driver only vehicle...


    [​IMG]
     

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