Some pics. I enjoy coming here every day, just hoping, HOPING, that one of the 39 of us that posts in here has posted a pic, anything. With that in mind, I finally decided that it was unfair to not post something Not a true HA/GR car, not SDRA, but close enough that the crowd won't know. We mutated the rules a bit to suit ourselves, and here's the rationale. We're not going to be racing with you folks (not that we wouldn't like to), it's just to far to travel. We are in the middle of nowhere Montana. I also know a lot of guys with familys that race jr dragsters. I bet I've watched 10-12 new families start in it. I hate how their rules add complication to a new family by making them put money into a 5hp engine to bring up the power when a simple rope start, ROCK STOCK 13hp engine would do the same thing (so to speak). Don't even get me started on that...lol... A new Jr dragster dad should be able to enjoy the weekend, not spend it learning EVERYTHING all at once. From my experiences at the track, not the national level, 85% of parents have no idea what they are doing, yet here they are now setting mixtures and clutches and living in frustration... when they could just "pull the rope" and enjoy. I watched a dad who was actually trying to get his 6 runs in for his NHRA licence, spend perhaps 12-15 hours at the track that same weekend, piddling with an ill-running, temperamental, overly hopped up, impossible piece of crap in his boys first Jr. digger. He'd never even seen a Briggs engine anywhere but on a lawnmower up until that point. Now all of a sudden he's Austin Coil, trying to put a race tune on it... Sure, it's a learning curve... but is it necessary right off the bat? So the part of the rules we mutated for our "Vintage Dragster" came about by watching the existing HA/GR rules with it's stock 90-110hp engines, and guys putting money into them to get the HP up. This is where my Jr. Dragster comparison comes in, why not just go up a few years (or cubic inches), save a guy a WAD of money and let him run a bigger engine, rock stock, that still appears vintage to onlookers? This honesty program is not going to work everywhere. Works here though. Fastest guy adds weight until he's the same speed as the next slower guy. I think we'll have 4-6 total when all the builds are done around our area over the next year. This car shown has a 292 in it. I'm thinking it's 125hp and 215 torque. We have another guy working on a SMOG 305 v8 engine with a 2bbl (maybe 160hp/235tq) he already knows he's not getting any respect with a traditional V8, but it was $50 bucks... $50 BUCKS and his engine is done...... It's eclectic... but it's the road we all decided on. We don't want to worry about this engine and all the high dollar parts we don't know about or have to make, and build it as well, nor does anybody else in our group. I have 5 other drag cars that need attention. This one is going to be treated like a go-kart, maybe even worse. When the engine blows, We're gonna find another one for $100 and put it in. Problem solved. No hi-performance cams, no hi-performance pistons, no aftermarket. Bolt in your rock stock engine and let it rip. And we're allowing, tachs, shiftlights and rev-limters. That's the rationale, for better or worse. Here are a few build pics. The first section was fooling around with different ideas.
radiator and gas tank. We made the radiator shroud. Tank is off what we think is an old generator. No Moon tank for this group, and I like it!!! Car has a radiator and an alternator. We want to be able to hot lap the car. No battery chargers, no cooling down in between passes... Just FLOG IT!!!
Starting on the shoulder hoop. Master cylinder and Brake lever in, scatter shield on. the seat in these pics is just to get the angles and "feel" right, it's not staying. Cage is "roughly" patterned around the 6.0 legal cage from Mark Williams. When it's done, I want to see if it will cert. Just a curiosity thing, locally. We need to be able to pass tech for the IHRA and NHRA. Some concessions had to be made, but I feel the spirit is there. and it will look more vintage than anything else in attendance locally.
Working on the roll bar and helmet bars. New seat is bent, and mocked in place. We get aluminum signs turned in from the State to a local re-cycler. We can buy those bad boys for 50 cents a pound. It's got to be 6061, takes two guys on my big brake to get a bend in it, and it will crack if you do a 90 with to little set back. STIFF... and a bargain! We use it all the time and for lot's of stuff. Just got to make sure the radius on a 90 degree bend is not to tight and you're golden.
getting closer. I'm guessing 20 more pieces to cut and cope to finish the cage... sure is a time consumer. Gonna be worth it when we get it to certify. Possibly wishful thinking, but we can dream can't we?
Damn. that look good.. And your building it pretty fast also.. Keep up the good work..That will be nice....
sure, it isn't a HA/GR or other SDRA car, but......it does look like a bit of common sense fun.....love it. sounds like hot rod to me, look forward to seeing more, Drewfus
MAAN!, I think i just landed in a parrellel universe, another team with no one to race, building in the spirit, I'll comfess i just want to do burnouts & hole shots! and cruise the pits with my WW1 flying cap and goggles!
As admirable as your personal interpretation of the rules are, in the spirit of cheapness. You'll find yourself lamenting your choice of engine allowance with the local group. What starts out as a $50 engine, will turn into a $5K situation very soon. There is no way you can police that once the door is opened. The parts will arrive through the desire to go faster, even if you can't see them from the exterior. It won't take much to get that 305 into the 300 hp range, I could do it and you'd never be able to find what was done. With all the smog crap unhooked, they run in the mid 200s anyway. I've been through this same escalation in evey budget motorsport I've ever participated in. You would not believe how much money gets dumped into antique tractor engines that will never win more than 6" tall trophy. We all started because we could have fun with "rock stock" tractors relatively cheap. Not so cheap anymore. Yeah, we fell into the same trap too. We have a 300+ hp 292 chevy powered tractor. Perfectly legal, the Oliver boys wanted to run thier combine engines, they didn't remember that Allis ran 292 Chevys in their combines. It just happens. Have fun with your local group, it doesn't mean anybody here won't keep up with your car or cheer you on. But, be prepared for the inevitable horsepower wars. I would have never allowed an ohv V8 of any stripe to enter the game. You'll get teched out the wazoo soon by the track officials. The later Chevy, Ford, and AMC inline sixes would have been plenty to allow. Plenty cheap too. Nice lookin' rig.
I have to echo what Hudsonator said. I too, really love the idea of keeping costs down any way possible. I'm very much with you guys in heart and spirit. However, I too have seen where "Stock" rules lead. Ten years ago at our local oval track, our Mini Stock guys were running junkyard engines and going fast. You could make a $100 2300 Ford WIN. Now the only way to win is have the local engine expert build you one of his whiz bang blueprinted engines.....$4000.
Sorry, I hit the wrong button and sent half a reply! Anyway, the rules never changed...the technology DID. The sad fact is that the desire to win will inevitably bring the money into the game. Money will always win, if it's paired with knowledge. We figured out on the ovals that the only way to keep spending from prevailing was to limit traction and induction. The HA/GR rules were pretty well thought out in this regard. I too hate a set of restrictive rules....I'd rather run an automatic. I'd rather run a radial tire. I'd rather run an easier to find, more inexpesive to build engine. However, I'd also like to close the gap between the "Haves" and the "Have nots". A clutch launch and a skinny tire will do that. All that said, I like the cars you're building, and I look forward to hearing about your successes at the track. This IS supposed to be fun, after all!
Looks like your having fun. That's probly more than the high dollar guys can say. Good luck with whatcha got, and thanks for posting. Jeff.
Vector, nice to see the build pix. Like the concept and look of the car, but you should have kept the mud and snow tires on the rear. Them things make some great noises when ya break them loose.......howl like a banshee they do!! The fuel tank and radiator are perfect. What is that radiator off of? The tall thin shape is major cool. Have to agree with Hudsonator on the engines though, leave out the V8s and you'll have a great class. (Drag race tractors could be fun too.......just think of the traction from them big tall tires!!)
Looking good, another class of vintage racing gets under way. How many groups like this do you think it'll take No Hot Rods Allowed to figure out that the endless commercialization angle has run it's course and folks want the real thing? Never mind, they never will. I agree that you'll have the usual problems down the road but I'm betting you can figure a way through'em when they show up. Both the HA/GRs and the SDRAs are in that place presently and are still alive & growing. Only two kibitz from me, 1. You're doomed to get some wise-assed comments on a class with the initials "VD". Aw c'mon, you know I couldn't pass that one up ....... 2. You can't have the phrase "stock engined go-kart". I've already been tagged with that one, it's mine. Royalties, amigo, royalties.
You and me buddy, you and me. You should see my driveway and the street in front of my house. A buddy of mine who works for the Sherrifs dept asked me about it just this week. I told him not all of them are mine... In fact that image in my avatar, is me doing some road work in front of my house..."allegedly". It's possible, but odds favor not. We're like the Aussies, the few of us that there are, are all working on each others cars. and the fastest of us, has to add weight to slow down. Also, we ALL have other drag cars... so we really don't care about these. Pure fun. Mind you, were all so busy with our other cars that not one of us has made pass yet with these. Just something we're doing for fun. Possible. I think, as it was explained to me, that the radiator is actually something off of a newer Grand prix or something like that with a wide flat nose, and then we just stood it up. One of the guys just showed up with it. Not sure on the exact origin. I like it. Gonna bring my VD to the track. ...lol... I just didn't want to start a debate on how we built our HA/GR cars wrong, so I'm calling it something else. Appreciate the kind words.
Fun, is highly infectious and very contagious. The more fun you have, the more folks will want to get in on it. Then there ya go. I'm all for you, but keep it in the back of your mind that you may have to trim the engine rules out there in the future. I'd say priority #1 is have fun and just see who starts asking questions. On the tractor thing: I've actually been up to 70mph on pavement, accelerating was smooth and quick - slowing down was a BITCH! Hud
I want to stir the pot a minute. In 1950 or 1930 for that matter no self respecting hot rodder ever planned a stock engined dragster. He may start that way for budget reasons but he soon had a overhead conversion on his T or A engine and made that roadster faster than it was. I entered into this fray to replicate as much as possible what a draster was like in 1955. I never was going to run a stock engine from the get go. I was always going to run a GMC because of the possibilities of that engine. That is how Ron Golden and my self became aquainted was talking about the GMC. Ron's, Hemibaker's, Alexander's and mine are just about alike in dimensions. They all are hotrods and we all like to race. You ask 2B or Cowboy Bob if they wish to run a stock flathead. We run early 1950's GMC truck engines that have been hotrodded but still have stock castiron heads albeit a grinder has found it's way into the ports. If some want to run stock engines or are satisfied with the performance of their cars great but the rules never said stock engines only pre 1962 with no aftermarket heads except flatheads. So that means we can't run a Wayne 12 port head. I ran Superstock when it had to be stock but I took a brand new engine apart and put headers and 4.56's in it and went 8 miles an hour faster than what it ran off the showroom. It had evry part from Chevrolet in it. I hope you have fun with your car I know I have fun with mine. Roy
I like what you are doing with the "Herminator" and the other dragsters. Nice work on the roll cage bends and nice tight fit. Glad you posted all the pics. I was one of the skeptics that wondered if you were a builder or just a good typist. I have the same situation as you in that I'm isolated from two main HA/GR populations. That made it difficult to decide on how much to stick to the rules (modified to pass tech around here). You have solved the dilemma by building a fleet of racers to run against each other. If I lived in your neighborhood I probably would have used one of the 292's in the back corner of the garage instead of a slant six. As to 348 Chevy's comments; I agree that most racers will try to find as much performance as they can afford. And that presents MY next delimma. Do I pour $4,000-$5,000 in my car this winter to build a competitive engine and a solid driveline? Or, do I run it as is and just have a good (slow) time at the races. I'm not sure a built slant will hang with the Jimmy's anyway.
Hey I'm from no where oregon and four banger is from somewhere idaho we all are not that far apart I know there are more folks in our neck of the woods. Ya never know HA/gr NW Nationals? The car looks good and if I ever get my house done or make more time for the car I'll see ya somewhere we can race??? Good luck Dusty
Victor, All the comments here ring true and all generally agree that your project looks good and sounds fun. If in the future you want to go faster you can do it over a few weeks or a few years. Sounds like a damn good way to have some fun. Keep us up to date on your progress.....and keep grinning. Ron
I'm likely going out to Woodburn Oregon the end of September for a race. But it's an import event. Not overly popular on the HAMB though, ...lol... Perhaps Spokane?
I think we should put a chute on it... one of those little dinky Stroud Super Comp ones. Nothing more impressive than an 80mph pass with the laundry out.
Thing sits so tall that it's almost hard to get in, even if you stand on the frame in front of the firewall. So we put a step on it. When you stand up to exit, and through a leg out, it hits dead-on in the middle of the step. Keeps from wracking the old "twig and berries" on that shoulder bar. Freaking awesome to use. It's half of a 12" diameter circle. I like it on just the one side, adds a look of purpose. We're starting to mock up the dash area, and I "REALLY" want to have the shifter on the far right where I mocked one up, just above the brake lever. Anybody up on a dash mount shifter stick solution for GM.? I'm of the opinion that this might be a solution. We need it to be operable with one hand. not sure how user friendly this is. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HUU-3160006/?image=large Now that I think about it... That ain't gonna work for shit. You can't hold the brake and put it in park or in gear with the same dang hand at the same time... If we foot braked it we could... Maybe we are gonna end up with a shifter in the crotch. Needs more thought. What moving it to the dash does is frees up the entire floor space making entrance and egress of the cockpit easier. Car is entered from the right and exited from the right with nothing to snag on, catch, break or bend. All the controls will be on the right in the cockpit, including all electrical. Everything mechanical on the right side. entrance on the left with nothing to step on. There's a difference between a 10 second or slower altered/funny car and a 6.0 or slower funny car, one of which is moly. I'm leaning toward changing a few bars you won't see behind body work to be more accommodating to the 10 second or slower car build rules. I really wanted to see an 8.50 cert as a badge of pride. But I'm starting to be of the opinion that they don't do this style of car that way. Which means we'd be overkilling for a 10 second cage that doesn't even require a cert in the first place. Is there an 8.50 cert for a car with the driver centered? I have no idea.
I've developed a new found appreciation for buying a $5000 altered chassis when you see them for sale. I've done my fair share of simple roll cages and bars... THIS is work......lol... 1) Made a test piece for notching and welding. Wanted to see the differences with 1" and 1.75" into a 90 degree corner. 2)Got the helmet bars in. 3) All 3 seat belt bars in. 4) re-fit the seat. finally got around to trying to weld pop cans together. Gonna need more time on that...
The Jalopy Journal
