The HAMB is an Invaluable resource. 351 windsor final chapte

[ QUOTE ]
Don't believe me? Fine with me, but don't blame me when you wipe out a cam. I learned the hard way too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Run a roller, not a problem.

 

fun gasket story--a month ago we took the kid's new 6 cyl 70 Camaro cruising, and it overheated. Got hold of a 9/16" wrench, pulled the thermostat out, and made a new gasket from part of a kleenex box. Worked fine.

Gaskets are whatever you want them to be.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GM and Toyota, I know for a fact, uses black Silicon on their motors, aren't they the two leading car manufacturers? They probably don't know what you know though.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm sure they know exactly what I know - silicone is not a good gasket replacement, however, it will last long enough for the car to go out of warranty & not be their problem.

FWIW, I wouldn't buy a new GM or Toyota product, but that's not germane to the topic at hand.

Lots of race teams use it because it's EASIER and works just as well for short periods of time. That does NOT mean it's better no matter how fast they run or how big their engine is. If you're building an engine to last, use gaskets.

[ QUOTE ]
I use Silicon under my manifold. When I used cork, I didn't have a problem either. However, in my years of installing intakes in the car and dealing with underhood clearance problems, I have had one or two squeeze out the back. If you use a bead of silicon, this doesn't happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had 'em squeeze out too before I figured out to glue them down. I do the same on valve covers & never have leaks. I've got a set of cork gaskets on some aluminum SBF valve covers that have been there at least 12 years with no leaks. I remove & replace the valve covers from time to time and always coat them with grease. Never a leak.

Also, if you have those same clearance issues that force you to slide the intake back & forth, you run a very real chance of rolling that black gooey turd into your lifter valley and just like with the cork, you won't realize it until you crank the engine & it leaks or, worse, doesn't leak so you don't fix it & it works its way into your oiling system.

[ QUOTE ]
If you use a bead of silicon, this doesn't happen. It's strictly a maintenance issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can look at it that way if you don't plan to keep your engine. Otherwise, it's lazy IMNSHO. I build my engines as if they'll never come apart again. I learned this building diesel engines years ago.

[ QUOTE ]
The bean counters have moved from using cork on factory motors to rubber for valve covers and oil pans, what does that mean? Cork is cheaper, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, synthetic rubber is probably cheaper than natural cork - particularly given the EPA/Greenpeace/eco-nazis. But it's probably more to protect against warranty claims. There is ALWAYS a dollar amount figured into ALL business decisions.

[ QUOTE ]
AND, one last point of interest - have you looked at an older motor with 150K miles and compared it to a late model motor w/ 150K miles on it? Doesn't the late model have less oil running down the side of the block?

[/ QUOTE ]

Motors don't normally leak oil, but engines do.

[ QUOTE ]
What about the stuff that is labeled as "SILICONE GASKET MAKER"??? I use that "Right stuff" for intake end seals all the time with great sucess...


[/ QUOTE ]

It will work, for a while. It will eventually leak - I don't care what anybody says, who uses it, what it says on the tube, or how big an engine you build with it. The length of time will be determined by the type of RTV silicone used, additives in it, exposure (quantity & duration) to petroleum products, and surface prep - but it will leak eventually.

[ QUOTE ]
for what it's worth that is what you HAVE to use on my girlfriend's 96 Saturn. The factory used it for the timing cover/ valve cover, so there IS no gasket available... the service manuals AND dealership will tell you to use that stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

That don't make it right. It's because it's cheaper for them to have a computer squeeze out a perfectly measured bead of silicone than to manufacture a gasket for it. It's all about money, man - the almighty dollar. I have made my own gaskets in those situations. Beside that, your hand-eye coordination isn't quite as good as that computer & you're several times more likely to put on too much "just to be safe" - a prime candidate for goop-osis and little solid turds of goop shit in your oiling system. I make my own gaskets.

It's kinda like windows. Everyone knows windows is for people who don't know how to use computers, but everyone uses windows. The people that DO know how to use computers will look upon windows users as somehow inferior because they choose to use a wimp (windows, icons, mouse, pointer) interface instead of machine code. Is it easier to use windows? Absolutely. Is it better? Very debatable. It is a form of snobbery, so I suppose that makes me a gasket snob.

I do view it as lazy to use a big wad of poop when there is a perfectly good gasket. You shouldn't say it's better just because you don't know how to use the gasket properly (not "you" specifically, "you" generally). It's the duct tape equivalent for gaksets!

Besides, I like silicone in chick's tits better than gooping up my engines!

 

Wow, how profound. I can tell I am dealing with someone who's never wrong and always has a better solution.

"goop-osis and little solid turds of goop shit in your oiling system" << I'm not sure where you squeeze this stuff into or how much muscle control you have, but this has NEVER been a problem I've had?!

When building SBFs I use the factory metal and rubber VC gaskets and factory rubber Oil pan gaskets w/ a dab of GM black at the corners of the oil pan/TC cover and OP/rear main. I use 4 dabs around the water jackets on the intake and lay a 1/4" bead across where the cork gaskets would reside on your engine. I have not once had pucky in my oil, or had it run down the inside of the motor or have any leaks. The cork gaskets, in my experience, when glueing them down or not, don't fit very well, and still require pucky at the corners where it makes the transition to the cyl. head. Cork it up if you like, no cork here. I build my SBF to run like a scalded dog and am not concerned about putting 100K on it. I'm trying to make as much possible HP without splitting the motor in half. If I take it apart in 6 months, that's fine. If I don't and it makes it a year w/o a blown head gasket or other block failure, that's even better.

Good Day!

 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, how profound. I can tell I am dealing with someone who's never wrong and always has a better solution.


[/ QUOTE ]

pot, kettle, black....

 

Zman - I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. I basically follow the same thought process and procedure as that of Jim Forbes... I've said time and time again, use the cork if you like. Silicone is not the work of the devil is all I'm saying. It can be used and works fine. Others disagree.

 

Geez, I wish I had paid attention to the original post.

I'm one of those poor bastards that bought a Ford Motorsport 5.0L shortblock for my Mustang. At idle, no pressure, at higher revs, it had pressure and dry top end.

The FMS tech guy totally stonewalled me till I got nasty with him and he clued me into the probability of the missing galley plug.

We pulled the intake and sure enough, they had never put one in. It cost me like 70 cents at -Reilley to get the little sucker and get the problem fixed.

It was pretty stressful on a new 1200 dollar shortblock.

 

One of the great thing is how opinionated we all are. we have our ways we stick to them. it's fine....

 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, how profound. I can tell I am dealing with someone who's never wrong and always has a better solution.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



pot, kettle, black....

[/ QUOTE ]

My thougths exactly. The problem is, I tell you WHY silicone won't work &amp; you tell me that it does because you build big engines with it. That doesn't mean anything - the two are not necessarily related. Please use a logical progression of thought.

Yes, I am opinionated. Yes, I am often wrong. It doesn't make me less opinionated.

I will always give opinion as opinion &amp; fact as fact (as I know it). For example, in another post, I said I did not believe that Ford put a posi in any 2.75:1 ratio rear ends, but caveated it with I did not know that to be a fact. I try to differentiate between the two.

FACT: Silicone will break down when exposed to petroleum products.

Please discuss logical points why I'm wrong. Engine builder X or machine shop Y using it, does not make it any different. I have conceded that it will work - for a while. If you are happy with that, that's fine.

My opinion is that if you KNOW something to be inferior &amp; use it because it's easier or less work, that is LAZY. But that's just my opinion - you may think it efficient.

 

I've noticed that cork shrinks long before silicone breaks down.

But if you can make cork manifold end seals work, then good for you! It also adds a bit of a nostalgia look to an engine.

 

I had the intake off of this here 390, and the kit that I bought for it had 2 of those nice thick blue gaskets and 2 cheaper looking cork strips for the ends. I thought to myself... how cheap. I used all of em and no leaky for over 1 and 1/2 years I used the yellow gasket goop on the blue gaskets and some black silicone on the cork. Blue and yellow go good together as dose the black and cork.

Some of us here wish we knew half as much about motors as you guys know in general. - and here you guys are arguing over gaskets... You should be ashamed!