The HAMB is an Invaluable resource. 351 windsor final chapte

I posted a situation I had with a engine and in less than 2 hours I had more than one response correctly identifiying my problem. With pictures detailing the possible cause of my no oiling problem no less!

Well With the advise of some very knowlageable people I was able to solve the problem in the engine I've been working on.

I was having a situation where no oil was getting to the top end of a 351 windsor engine I have in a customers brand new 36 Ford sedan I have been building. The engine was supplied be a local engine builder and when we went to fire it for the first time there was no oil pressure( well 20 lbs at 2000 RPM) and the lifters were dry as a bone, and making lots of noise.

It was sugjested that a oil galley plug was not in place under the intake and letting the oil just pour into the lifter valley.

Beatnik (MY buuddy Gus) even went so far as to post a pic of an engine with an arrow pointing to the plug under the intake manifold.

Well tonight I pulled the intake and sure enough the plug was MISSING

Going back to the Machine shop post . But the builder admits to some ofthe blame, Although stated the Machine shop removes these plugs to clean the block throurly and is responsible for reinstalling new ones.

I have some pic showing the problem and what happens to the oil when the plug is not in place.

All I can say is the HAMB has become such an invaluable resource for all of us no matter what kind of problem we are dealing with.

Thanks Ryan for this place, and thanks for everyone that takes the time to read and try and help someone out here. less than a few years ago this would not of been possible and I just can't get over how much help this place can be when you really need it.

Ok, Back to work on the hotrods everybody

First pic is what I found when I removed the intake.

No plug!!!

 

Where the oil goes instead of going to the cam and lifters

 

The plug installed....all systems go

Thanks again to those that helped me figure this out.

 

BEATNIK ROCKS!

 

I'm happy you got it figured out with out having to pull the engine out. When Jim mentioned the galley plug, I remembered that Ford Motorsport had a few crate engines they sent out missing that plug, and people had the same problem because they didn't notice it, before they put the intake on.

 

We'll make a Ford Believer outta you yet, Mister!!

(And, yes...it is way common for machine shops to leave them plugs out. When I'm putting together an engine, I always replace every plug as a matter of habit...especially the coolant plugs! Nothing worse than having one of the freeze plugs behind the flexplate or one of the oil plugs like yours pop or go missing when ya wanna fire up the new mill!)

The HAMB has given us a valuable resource with nearly instant access to several individuals who can help out with a problem when we get stuck on something. It's FAR nicer than days of old when you had to rely on a small circle of locals you may only see once a week or so...or write letters to the tech columns in magazines and hope your queery gets answered six months later to solve an aggravating problem! Ryan has spoiled us, for sure!

(Someone on here suggested, probably jokingly, that I use a ten speed brake cable to hook up my throttle. Well, guess what I did!!??!! Ha Ha Ha! The HAMB ROCKS!!)

 

Opps...Almost forgot to thank Jim Forbes, for his speedy and accurate reply. In less than 2 hours

Who needs a manual when you have the HAMB

 

My 2 cents: Don't use cork gaskets under the intake - It's not worth the possibility that they'll slide out of position when installing the manifold. I used them a lot when first building engines, but have found the bead of silicon is a sure fire way of sealing the intake to block. Silicon's not going to dry out like the cork will and cause future leaks.

Looks nice and good luck with it.

Alec.

 

Jim was always a valueble resource on the old truck list. It look like he'll be the same here.

As for the cork gaskets. I still use them. I don't do a bead of silicon as it can be pushed into the valley and clog an oil galley. If installed correctly the cork works fine...

 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't do a bead of silicon as it can be pushed into the valley and clog an oil galley

[/ QUOTE ]???? Wow, how long do you wait to install the manifold? One must be able to control the goo coming from his tube, and if done properly... then there's no mess! "clog an oil galley" - That's the lamest excuse I think I've ever heard! I guess if you do sloppy work, that could happen.

It's just a guaranteed seal. Cork is old school technology, and it used to be fine. I would never use cork gaskets for valve covers or oil pans either. They're a waste of time, they soak in the oil and never seal worth a shit. If you like leaky motors, cork it up! Otherwise, be friends with silicon and rubber, learn it's advantages!

 

3blap, I'd highly suggest you go sit down and hush.

As far as silicone goes, I'll let my mechanic friend tell you about the engines he's had to replace due to that crap being overused.

BTW, when the only thing for your motor is a cork gasket, you by God use it!

I personally use the a very thin application of silicone to hold the cork in place. That's it.

 

[ QUOTE ]
3blap, I'd highly suggest you go sit down and hush.

As far as silicone goes, I'll let my mechanic friend tell you about the engines he's had to replace due to that crap being overused.

BTW, when the only thing for your motor is a cork gasket, you by God use it! <font color="blue"> </font>

I personally use the a very thin application of silicone to hold the cork in place. That's it.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO!!!

I never said to use it when installing bearings, headgaskets, rocker arms, valve seals... but if that's how you want to take it, that's cool too!

I guess being around race motors and people who spend a lot on motors, I just get used to doing things right the first time. Sorry.. I was just adding my 2 cents... I'll hush if you want to keep thinking your old school ways are superior. It's your motor, put sand in it if you want.

 

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't do a bead of silicon as it can be pushed into the valley and clog an oil galley

[/ QUOTE ]???? Wow, how long do you wait to install the manifold? One must be able to control the goo coming from his tube, and if done properly... then there's no mess! "clog an oil galley" - That's the lamest excuse I think I've ever heard! I guess if you do sloppy work, that could happen.

It's just a guaranteed seal. Cork is old school technology, and it used to be fine. I would never use cork gaskets for valve covers or oil pans either. They're a waste of time, they soak in the oil and never seal worth a shit. If you like leaky motors, cork it up! Otherwise, be friends with silicon and rubber, learn it's advantages!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a guaranteed seal, sorry to say. And I guess you do everything from start to finish the first time. But then my opinion is if you can't get the correct gasket to seal the first time you're a f#cking moron. The 235 in my truck has cork on the valve covers and oil pan, not a leak in sight... and by the way the cheap potshots aren't gonna fly. I'm not sloppy but I've fixed a lot of sloppy wanna be's work.



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3blap, I'd highly suggest you go sit down and hush.

As far as silicone goes, I'll let my mechanic friend tell you about the engines he's had to replace due to that crap being overused.

BTW, when the only thing for your motor is a cork gasket, you by God use it! <font color="blue"> </font>

I personally use the a very thin application of silicone to hold the cork in place. That's it.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO!!!

I never said to use it when installing bearings, headgaskets, rocker arms, valve seals... but if that's how you want to take it, that's cool too!

I guess being around race motors and people who spend a lot on motors, I just get used to doing things right the first time. Sorry.. I was just adding my 2 cents... I'll hush if you want to keep thinking your old school ways are superior. It's your motor, put sand in it if you want.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you were doing it right the first time you would be using a gasket.. I've built quite a few motors in my time and there is a place for silicone in moderation. But not as a replacement for a gasket...

your attitude makes you look stupid...

 

Leave silicone in chick's tits where it belongs.

Using RTV silicone to in place of gaskets is lazy AND sloppy. I have built many different brands of engines, but mostly Fords - I have NEVER had to use silicone to get my intake end gaskets to seal.

Glue the cork down to the block with permatex #2, coat the intake side of the cork with grease or vaseline, put a dab of permatex #2 in the corners if you like and only use the thinnest of skims coats of RTV around the water ports/passages &amp; then only if your surfaces aren't good. Otherwise, any quality grease works better than anything else. Oh yeah, you can use the vaseline to rub one out - sure can't do that with RTV!

RTV silicone, despite what many say on the packages, is not designed for constant exposure to any petroleum products. Ever see it jelly up from gasoline contact? Same thing happens with oil contact - it just takes longer. That's why it stays "pliable" - it's breaking down slowly.

Oh yeah, I've seen one or two engines ruined due to excessive RTV blobs finding their way into the oiling system or clogging the pickup tubes. Also seen radiators damn near choked off completely.

Just cuz the factories use it these days, don't make it right. Bean counters drive the boat &amp; they don't build cars to last anymore anyway.


Kids these days.

 

Well jsut came in from the garage. ( what a concept )

All is fine. 65 lbs of oil presure. No engine noises. I'd have to say I got off pretty cheap. 20 bucks for intake gaskets and we're ready to wrap this baby up.

Oh and as far as the cork gasket deal. I don't mind using them. They still sell them for this application so they must be ok. And the one thing I though was cool is they have a self adhesive tape on the block side to keep them in place. I do use a dab of silicone in the corners where the gaskets all meet and usually don't have any problems.


I'm looking forward to my next delima

 

When's the last time you saw a bottle of Dom sealed up with RTV?

Way to go guys. This is what the HAMB is for.

Jay

 

[ QUOTE ]
When's the last time you saw a bottle of Dom sealed up with RTV?

Way to go guys. This is what the HAMB is for.
Jay

[/ QUOTE ]


god JAy that is too funny

 

My machinist swears by this stuff (when used in the proper places): http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&amp;f_call=get_item&amp;item_no=25223 .


I used it on the ends of my intake. The cork gasket was way too thick (heads milled .050"). Havent had a leak yet.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Leave silicone in chick's tits where it belongs.

Using RTV silicone to in place of gaskets is lazy AND sloppy. I have built many different brands of engines, but mostly Fords - . <font color="blue"> </font> .

Glue the cork down to the block with permatex #2, coat the intake side of the cork with grease or vaseline, put a dab of permatex #2 in the corners if you like and only use the thinnest of skims coats of RTV around the water ports/passages &amp; then only if your surfaces aren't good. Otherwise, any quality grease works better than anything else. Oh yeah, you can use the vaseline to rub one out - sure can't do that with RTV!

RTV silicone, despite what many say on the packages, is not designed for constant exposure to any petroleum products. Ever see it jelly up from gasoline contact? Same thing happens with oil contact - it just takes longer. That's why it stays "pliable" - it's breaking down slowly.

Oh yeah, I've seen one or two engines ruined due to excessive RTV blobs finding their way into the oiling system or clogging the pickup tubes. Also seen radiators damn near choked off completely. - <font color="blue"> </font>
Just cuz the factories use it these days, don't make it right. Bean counters drive the boat &amp; they don't build cars to last anymore anyway. - <font color="blue"> </font>

Kids these days.






[/ QUOTE ]

The machine shop I worked in never used cork unless it was a stock motor. They've built several 8 sec mustangs, and I have never seen a lick of cork on those motors. They also built several Arias blown alcohol drag boat motors, so I think they're qualified as a "Good" machine shop. <<< point here is they aren't building mickey mouse bullshit. If you use the black silicon like A/FX posted, it may deteriorate, but not like the clear does. GM and Toyota, I know for a fact, uses black Silicon on their motors, aren't they the two leading car manufacturers? They probably don't know what you know though.

I use Silicon under my manifold. I run a blown EFI 351 in a late model mustang and I don't get any oil mess coming out from motor. When I used cork, I didn't have a problem either. However, in my years of installing intakes in the car and dealing with underhood clearance problems, I have had one or two squeeze out the back. If you use a bead of silicon, this doesn't happen. It's strictly a maintenance issue. The bean counters have moved from using cork on factory motors to rubber for valve covers and oil pans, what does that mean? Cork is cheaper, right?

AND, one last point of interest - have you looked at an older motor with 150K miles and compared it to a late model motor w/ 150K miles on it? Doesn't the late model have less oil running down the side of the block?

Just my 2 cents.

- Stupid

 

[ QUOTE ]

The machine shop I worked in never used cork unless it was a stock motor. They've built several 8 sec mustangs, and I have never seen a lick of cork on those motors. They also built several Arias blown alcohol drag boat motors, so I think they're qualified as a "Good" machine shop. <<< point here is they aren't building mickey mouse bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are also talking about an engine that is getting torn down very often. More often than no if there is a rubber gasket available I'll use it. But I also make an awful lot of my own gaskets as well. I'm sorry a bead of silly-cone is not a replacement for a gasket...

 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry a bead of silly-cone is not a replacement for a gasket...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? What is the definition of a gasket?

- stupid

 

Just like everything else Silicone has its CORRECT uses. if your not willing to research what the proper application is you'll have problems. It's not a cure all for AIDS or TERRORISM but if properly applied it can save you time and give a superior seal. BTW, I've used it for the end of intake manifolds for years and wouldn't use anything else. I've had too many squeeze out and cause leaks when the heads have been milled.

Frank

 

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I'm sorry a bead of silly-cone is not a replacement for a gasket...


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What about the stuff that is labeled as "SILICONE GASKET MAKER"??? I use that "Right stuff" for intake end seals all the time with great sucess...

for what it's worth that is what you HAVE to use on my girlfriend's 96 Saturn. The factory used it for the timing cover/ valve cover, so there IS no gasket available... the service manuals AND dealership will tell you to use that stuff.

 

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Why not? What is the definition of a gasket?


[/ QUOTE ]

A cord or canvas strap used to secure a furled sail to a yard boom or gaff.

 

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I've had too many squeeze out and cause leaks when the heads have been milled.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can see that, I tend to use some paper gasket material the correct thickness and then a very light coating on both sides.

 

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A cord or canvas strap used to secure a furled sail to a yard boom or gaff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that response - it's as correct as silicon vs. cork!

 

Also Mr. Blap Cam, it's siliconE not silicon. Silicon is what they make circuit boards out of, and I have to agree, that would not work to replace a gasket.

 

you're welcome!

On the cork/silicone thing, I quit using the gaskets at the ends of intakes years ago, mainly because the blower intake on my big block (and some other aftermarket intakes as well) is machined so that they won't work--it just pops out the gaskets and leaks oil.

Silicone has 2 uses on an engine, one is at the ends of the intake, the other is to join up the corners of the oil pan gasket. I don't use it anywhere else.

As for using gaskets just because they're in the kit....consider the case of exhaust manifold gaskets for engines such as the Chevy V8s that never had these gaskets installed from the factory. All the gaskets do is insulate the manifold from the head, so the manifold can overheat and warp.

maybe I spent too much time in engineering school! but at least I was working at a junkyard at the time so I got to see the results of bad design.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Also Mr. Blap Cam, it's siliconE not silicon. Silicon is what they make circuit boards out of, and I have to agree, that would not work to replace a gasket.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you're right... my mistake. That does make more sense. Si wouldn't act as a good sealer by itself.

 

There are many cams wiped out because people insist in using rubber or cork gaskets on the ends of an aluminum intake. From experience, if you do use the runbber gaskets, it will distort the manifold when you tighten it down, enough that the water crossover on the front will seep antifreeze into the valley, wiping out the cam in the process, because it's not a good lubricant for breakin. Don't believe me? Fine with me, but don't blame me when you wipe out a cam. I learned the hard way too.