Folks Of Interest The Changing Scene of our hobby

Things change every year. I feel that I lived through the best lifetime in hot rodding and I hope every other hot rodder regardless of when they pass through this earth, feels the same way.

 

^^^ that's sad.....When I lived in Colo. Springs few years ago, I belonged to the local chapter of a car club...lot of 'very' old timers, who had their cars when practically new, which is cool in it's own way, but.....I was the youngest husband & wife team on the whole roster at in the early 50's age bracket. On one of their meetings at the police station, I mentioned that ''we, as a club'' should really try to reach out to the younger people who ''might'' be interested in joining, but don't have the know-how or the massive amount of $$$ that most of the retired professional old timers had accumulated over the years, and hoards of cars stashed away. Heck, even their cars were so pristine, that I wondered even then, ''why'' would a young person care to join the club, if they might have a total beater that barely runs, has 3 colors of primer on it, questionable tires, and a tool box that they may keep under the kitchen sink....but wants to get started in the right direction on a family budget???

I remember trying to get them to ''hear'' what I was saying, and honestly, it seemed like it totally went right over their heads....saying things like: "We can't just open up membership to any person who doesn't ''value'' our clubs virtues and traditions''...and "most of our cars are worth a fortune, and we can't lower our standards to fit just anybody in...it would diminish our applications to the parades and car shows''..........I nearly bust a vein listening to this hype!!!

I told them, sitting around rather smug in their own ''car justification'' that everyone has to start somewhere, and these kids under 35 don't even know what direction to go...they may have bought a car as a real treasure, and it just sits with a tarp over it, because nobody cares to show them what to do with an old engine that was made 30+ years before they were born!

There really needs to be some kind of program for the younger set, who want to pursue a car culture....but don't know the ropes, or have a clue how to proceed properly...and if they run up against the old die-hards who won't budge because the car isn't up to a certain standard ....what is the point? I was really bummed after the speech they dished out at me...and subsequently , dropped out of the car club, because of the lack of clarity, and not seeing that new blood keeps the car club fires flamed....just like when ''they'' were young, and struggled to ''find a place'' without having a $20,000 to $100,000 car to impress those sitting around in a circle and sipping coffee, talking about the old days ''when a car was a car''....and glad they aren't a kid now!

Sorry.....don't mean to get off on a tangent...but I've seen this stuff fairly often, and without the new & younger folks trying their skills, learn as they go, and take pride in their car with the car club appreciation of their limitations....a car club will quickly ruin itself...and wake up one day, and all have died off, and their cars end up at a televised auction----- Ray

 

Jeeze if I was coming of driving age and they were making this crap that they're putting out now, I dunno if I'd have much interest either. LOL

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Glad I let my 4 year old grandson drive my 1912 T this summer in low gear. He's also hooked on the Hershey Swap Meet. "Take that junk to Hershey and sell it!" is a very common line from him. Future of the hobby is going to be fine. Bob

 

[/Quote]
I told them, sitting around rather smug in their own ''car justification'' that everyone has to start somewhere, and these kids under 35 don't even know what direction to go...they may have bought a car as a real treasure, and it just sits with a tarp over it, because nobody cares to show them what to do with an old engine that was made 30+ years before they were born!


Ray[/QUOTE]

You basically described my car here. I have a car that takes up a space in my driveway mainly because I have no idea where to go other then take it apart one part at a time and hope I can get it running down the road again.

I haven't touched that car since November and frankly I don't know what to do when I decide to go back at it. Do I tear it down? Do I take the body off the frame and restore it that way? Do I send it to a body man for the rust that I am incapable of tackling because I don't know how to weld (I have a mig welder, but I'm terrible because I have no training). All of these questions are relative of course but having a mentor would make a world of difference. I can only hope that some of the older guys on here that talk about wanting to help us younger guys really follow through this next season.

-Justin


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I've been alone wolf pretty much most of my life. Thanks for making me feel not alone in this car journey.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Man, I went to the TROG West last year, and it was a fantastic event that was packed with people of all age groups, from babies in strollers to old men in the 70's or 80's, and all in between. That's why I'm not so afraid of the scene dying, I see a LOT of younger folks involved. At least around here. If the older guys aren't seeing it, it may be a geographical thing, maybe where they are there aren't any youths involved, or maybe they aren't opening their eyes, or maybe they aren't accepting the youth.

I went to 1 particular Friday Night Cruise Night last fall. I had been seeing the flyers for this cruise night for quite awhile, but hadn't gotten down there to check it out, so one Friday afternoon about 4:00 I shut down my computer and said screw it, I'm going. When I drove in there was already a couple dozen cars all parked in formation. I'm no spring chicken at 57, but I lowered the average age by about a decade or more. It turned out to be the most unfriendly and unwelcoming car event I've been to. All the guys were sitting in lawn chairs gabbing with each other, and really ignored me, even when trying to strike up conversations their answers were short and went nowhere. Sorry man, but I'm not into the sitting in lawn chair's thing, I'm there to look at cars and talk to car guys. If you want younger folks to take an interest, I suggest rethinking how you go about doing your cruise nights or other events. A smile doesn't cost you anything. Someone shows some interest in your car, shit man, tell him about it. WTF???

 

Damn, you are inside of my head! I could of written that, you described our local cruise in to a tee.

 

I told them, sitting around rather smug in their own ''car justification'' that everyone has to start somewhere, and these kids under 35 don't even know what direction to go...they may have bought a car as a real treasure, and it just sits with a tarp over it, because nobody cares to show them what to do with an old engine that was made 30+ years before they were born!


Ray[/QUOTE]

You basically described my car here. I have a car that takes up a space in my driveway mainly because I have no idea where to go other then take it apart one part at a time and hope I can get it running down the road again.

I haven't touched that car since November and frankly I don't know what to do when I decide to go back at it. Do I tear it down? Do I take the body off the frame and restore it that way? Do I send it to a body man for the rust that I am incapable of tackling because I don't know how to weld (I have a mig welder, but I'm terrible because I have no training). All of these questions are relative of course but having a mentor would make a world of difference. I can only hope that some of the older guys on here that talk about wanting to help us younger guys really follow through this next season.

-Justin


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app[/QUOTE]
The best thing you could do from any standpoint I believe, is to be on the HAMB!!!....wish I would have had this wealth of knowledge when I was younger. You must decide what direction you want to take, and what you vision with your car. There are a LOT of different personalities on the HAMB, and sometimes ya' gotta weed thru' the lot of it....but for the most part, people will be able to advise you in your progress. Look up past builds, and don't be afraid of admitting you are new to the game....no question is a dumb question if you don't know the answers in the first place...it really is all a process of weeding out everything on your car, and what direction you can go., while learning the necessary skills alongside the progress.

You have a MIG welder, I would learn how to use the welder....buy some books on engine repair and bodywork with a lot of pictures. I found that over the years, ....nothing comes immediately, and it often entails learning the basics first, one part at a time, and starting at the bottom and working yourself up into the more detailed and complicated stuff as it starts to take shape....and for a lot of us, myself included....this car thing can take a long time!!! It is a passion that engulfs valuable spare time, and working alongside family priorities, jobs, and life in general.

I work with a couple of young fellows, with a 51' Chevrolet...a total basket case....and they are interested in the car, which is a good sign....doing all the 'little' things in preparation and getting things in order, BEFORE tackling the next issue. The main thing, is to keep the focus and realize it's 'your' car...you own it, and it's ''your dream''...first and foremost. Follow your desire, and what you envision what you want...and honestly take the hard stuff as matter of fact, which eventually gets you to the next matter to be tackled. It's a giant puzzle, and it costs money (a budget comes in handy)....and don't be afraid to ask questions from everyone...all they can say is no....move onto the next fellow. Sometimes us older guys take it for granted that the younger guys can figure this stuff out, because ''we did'' back in the day....but it's very different now, and the ''exposure'' is not as abounding as it once was. Ask the questions, and it will all fit at some point by asking even the simplest questions...but not overnight!

The 2 young guys I am working with....know ''some'' about cars, but it's a complete learning experience for them, because they weren't even born when the last carburetor was put into a production car! How could they know this stuff, unless they ask? I try to remember their predicament, and realize they are reaching out for help, because they see what I can do, and want to have those skills and maybe, a nice car someday all their own to brag about.

Most older guys will respect a young guy trying to figure this stuff out.....and will know the ins-and-outs of what you want to do with your car I believe....you just gotta weed thru' the lot of answers, with a few slick joking added to the fray, to find a 'mentor type'....but until then, ask the questions on the HAMB and do the research of previous threads...most cars are covered here! It's your car, and your decisions....so follow your own desires....and remember, NO QUESTION is dumb or naïve, if you haven't a clue what to do.....we all started somewhere, not knowing anything...whether it's admitted or not!...........don't give up!!!...figure out how to do the simplest things first, and you'll start making progress...and see the results, and you will be formulating a real plan in the process.

I wish you luck....it isn't hopeless....a puzzle on a card table starts with the first piece in place...it gets built from there. Take care man....and good luck!-------- Ray

 

Thanks Ray


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

A little off topic, but anyone who would have a black cat as his avatar (I'm thinking of my friend Scott and Natty Guns at Rice n Beans Garage) is certainly welcome on the HAMB. Improving your skill set (welding, for example) can be a slow, very incremental process, but a necessary one. I second above HAMBer comments about night classes at a Technical College. Being a Hot Rodder or Customiser is a life long commitment. You're either into it or not and it's just a temporary fling. Welcome to the Hamb Justin.

 

Around here its purely geographical. There is a active scene down by Detroit, but that is 3 hours SE of me. Not much in the immediate area after the 'old guys' are phasing out.

 

Around the upper Midwest the health and wellness of the hot rod hobby seems to be quite healthy. I try to attend all the HAMB friendly shows in this region of the country. I always pause for a moment and take note of the average age of the attendees and those with cars. It seems the more "Traditional Style" the show, the younger the crowd. We are very fortunate in this part of the country to have so many events that really celebrate traditional style hot rods. These events include Vintage Torque Fest, Scrap Drive, Cheaterama, Iron Invasion, Meltdown Drags and the Symco Shakedown.
There are also many more smaller traditional shows in this region. Kinda surprisingly, the upper Midwest is a hot bed for our hobby (Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois). All these shows are within a pretty easy drive of one another. The attendance at these shows is great. Typically, Torque Fest and the Iron Invasion bring in close to 1,000 traditional styled hot rods.

One thing that really draws so many people to these shows are all the activities that take place at the event. They are held at county fair grounds with a race track that gets used during the show (not at a black top parking lot) Swap meet, pin up contest, multiple live bands throughout the day, art auction, mini bike racing and vendors selling vintage hot rod art. (Max Grundy, Keith Weesner attend)

Sure, the '32 Fords, crazy customs, and high dollar cars are usually owned by the "older" guys that have the discretionary income. The younger guys 20's, 30's, early 40's represent with some really nice stuff, too. The people in this part of the country are kinda known for being "nice" as well, so participants and the walk-in public really feel welcomed and part of the crowd.

Even in my small town (4,000) there is a cruise night that is well attended. The people in town that know nothing about cars always rave about how fun it is and how much they enjoy seeing the cars. You can't drive through my small town without seeing an old car. The guy up the road has a cool 40 Ford 2 door sedan that sits in front of his body shop, the lawyer in town drives a 55 Chevy as his daily driver (no shit!) and we even have a hot rod fabrication shop in town. He has a ton of work at his shop.
I will say that my friends that own hot rods are quite older than I. I am by far the youngest guy in our group.

I attend Back To The 50's in St. Paul every year. Consistently, that show brings in 11,500 to 12,000 cars every year. Lets just say there is a lot of grey hair there. We always ask....what is going to happen to all these cars when these guys can no longer drive them...or they pass away. I worry more about the knowledge and experience we lose when these awesome guys are no longer with us.

How about TROG or the Lonestar Roundup? Those strike me as shows that young folks would flock to.

 

The thing that is keeping us young guys out of the hobby is the astronomical prices for 80 year old parts and how much work it takes to put these cars together. But to me I see it as a blessing in disguise in a way. To be young (under 25) and building a hotrod these days, you have to be extremely dedicated to the hobby. I work full time as an electrician during the week and make just enough money to pay the bills and buy parts and tools to build hotrods. I sacrifice my entire weekends in my little shop. Its not that the younger crowd thinks traditional hotrods are lame, infact most of my friends think its so cool that I do what I do. Its an all or nothing hobby and I really wouldnt want it any other way. It keeps the posers and flakes out.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Im in the springs, which club? i'd like to avoid them. My desoto will be primer/original paint and ugly for a while, i'd hate to get caught up with the wrong group.

I'm 37, i've been messing with cars all my life and i'm not afraid to jump in. I'm currently knee deep in an OT 85 Toyota MR2 for a clutch replacement, i did the same on my Turbo Saab recently and i also keep up an 89 Porsche 944S2. I know that stuff probably makes you guys cringe, but hell the toyota is 32 years old now and the porsche is not far behind.... The desoto in my sig is my longer term project that I'm rebuilding a 392 for. A friend of mine (33) recently got his families 53 chevy 4 door (bought new) and i've been helping him get it going as it sat out for 20 years. I've got him convinced to get a Fenton intake/exhaust for the 235 because "hot rod", so i'm playing my part to suck more people into the old car game. He's never had an old car before this and is loving the build up so far.

I do expect that there will be glut of older cars/muscle cars in 10-15 years. There are far to many around for guys like me to pick up.

 

Maybe Stockers car Club?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Rainman1959 and wrayman make very valid points. I'm no kid (74) and have experienced the same things they mention. I was invited as a "prospect" by a car club so I went with a member I knew. It was nothing but a bunch of old grumpy guys bitching about how the car scene is changing etc etc and how so and so won a trophy at the last show instead of them-never went back. I went to another one similar where they had an open invitation and it was at a restuarant. I took my 40-these guys totally ignored me and a couple of other guys and were engrossed in their own little click and ignored people who came. This attitude is present at many cruise-ins as well-this is a big turn off to anyone interested. These guys have these high dollar cars and just sit there glaring at people and give short curt remarks when asked about their cars. C'mon-what did we all start with and how did we learn?? I know early on I had a 37 Ford pickup that we shot with white primer with a little caterpiller yellow added on the lawn. It had a flatty with heads and two two's and I thought t was really cool (1959) If I showed up with that today they would laugh me out of the parking lot and make smart ass remarks. We need to converse with the younger guys and not bad mouth what they are working on or driving-takes many years and lots of skills/money to build a nice car and they all have to start somewhere as we did. Many in this hobby are a part of the problem.

 

Yep, some people are just pissed at the world. They're the trophy chasing lawn chair guys, their cars are the best and everyone else's stuff sucks...just ask them

There are several factors that are responsible for preventing younger people from getting into the hobby.
HAMBer Texas36 hit the nail on the head. Most Fords from 1930 through 1940 are quite expensive. And that's before any restoration even begins. Just the bodies are big $$$.

Also, people born in the last 30 years were not as exposed to auto mechanics the way the baby boomers were. Back when the boomers were kids, their fathers worked on the family car in the garage. It was a matter of necessity to save money and the cars were far less complicated. The boomers learned basic auto mechanics and learned how to turn a wrench. This helped plant the seed and generated interest in cars. The kids from the past 20 years.....less exposed...the cars they're familiar with go to the dealership for repair. Today there's more of a disconnect between younger folks and cars/wrenching.

In the 1980's you could get a Model A for a few hundred dollars. In the past 20 years all the classic cars have increased in value/price at a disproportional rate than at any other time in the post WWII era.

Also as we are all too familiar with, the old cars have rust issues. They will need body work and many people, especially young people don't know how to weld or do body work. This means paying someone to do it and that can get expensive quick. After paying all the monthly bills the money just isn't there for a hot rod.

With that being said the "20 and 30 somethings" are still showing up in hot rods, so they're finding a way to make it work. At least up here they are. It's great to see and I'm very optimistic and hopeful for the future of this great and super fun hobby.

 

I'm 51 and I really appreciate the "Early Rodders" in this forum who generously pass down their wealth of knowledge.

THANK YOU HAMB!!

 

I'm sorry Arominus.....I don't feel easy about naming ''names'' about car clubs to a negative concern, that I have had bad experiences with in the Springs, based on simple misconceptions...it was ''my'' personal account with the club and what I saw as a bad move in general to the outreach of younger people, at that time...it's been 6-7 years since I've associated with them, and they ''may'' have corrected some things, or relaxed on their ideals somewhat...It would not be fair to judge the entire lot of car guys in one viewpoint within the club 6-7 years after the fact, because not everyone was at the meetings I attended, or is involved in the same regard as those I commented on.

...to be honest, I was simply trying to relate a point about young folks entering the car club society in general as a positive note, by what I experienced, as my one voice within the community...and saw room for potential growth and genuine welcome so obviously needed...not create a bad reputation for anyone else within that same club, because I spoke up. What I may have not seen as beneficial, I'm sure some else would have seen as correct procedure....heck, there may be guys on the HAMB who are in that club, and don't see a problem....just wanted to be fair, and spoke about a point that needed to be looked at, which I'm sure other car clubs around the country could relate upon.

My advice....try a particular car club out, and if you like it and see positive potential....that's great...if not, speak up, and look elsewhere....I'm simply not able to name a car club outright, and lump all the members into the same frame of mind as those I associated with.....just tryin' to be fair!-----------

By the way....congrats on trying to ''suck more people'' into the old car game....that's great to hear!---- Ray

 

olscrounger, you are so right. I like what I drive and keep it as nice as I can. At some functions I too sit behind my car usually reading something, but if someone comes up I always put down whatever I'm doing and to talk to them. 56 Fords are definitely not the norm. I had our LSR roadster at a local show and I had a lot of looks since race cars are not normal. If a family comes up especially with kids about 10-12 yrs old and they are at all interested I ask them if they want to sit inside. The smiles on their faces are all I need. They need to get up on the rear tire, hold on to the roll cage, step on to the seat (yes it has upolstry) to get in. Pictures are always taken and if this can spark the interest of just one kid, boy or girl, it's made my day. I know guys have spent a ton of $$$ on their cars but it's no need to be unpleasant to anyone. That "nerd" may be the guy who makes a bunch of money in a few years and comes back to buy it.

 

That's a good observation, I would agree. The younger the hot rodder the more likely his car is going to be more traditional. The older he is, the more likely it is to be more street rod. That's not a hard and fast rule, but it does seem to be the way things trend.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't get it. Way too much of this going on.

 

I think the hobby, scene, passion or what ever, is doing fine. There are always going to be mean a$$hats no matter what your into and where you are at. Young, old or in between, I don't think age has a lot to do with it. My retort is to F with em. Give them a little dose of the same back. I will talk with any one about any thing until they start getting obnoxious then all bets are off. Some times when I cross the line I wont even talk to myself.

 

I would say you described that perfectly.

 

The other thing that is changing about hot rodding is the mentality and ease/likelyhood/degree of modifications:

For example, 1958 impala vs. 2018 impala:
It's very likely that the 58 impala was sold off after 3-5 years. Then, likely sold to another owner..........and another owner. Very easy/cheap to replace parts, especially engine.

The 2018 impala will very likely get sold to a 2nd owner and then possibly a third owner. But when the engine goes, how likely do you think a new engine will be installed vs. simply junking it and getting another car? The high labor cost and high initial cost of the engine make keeping the car impractical.

Cars, today, have essentially become disposable.

 

Electronic control was the holy grail in that. Before, a certain basic durability was the technological requisite for adequate reliability. After electronic control, durability could be separated from reliability.

 

Ummmmmm...........Wha?

Again, in English please.

 

I have noticed in this thread, one critical missing link, some let kids and others sit in their car, me? I take them for a drive, you need to do that to really light the fire, the sound, the feel, it's in their ass for long enough they don't forget the beauty of looking out a flat windshield. I know that I'm personally responsible for at least two young guys getting into our hobby, one has turned into one of the finest metal men I know, it's about opportunity, give them the chance and they'll run with it. As an old guy, it's my duty to teach what I can, not to act like I'm somehow better because I have two cars and are somehow better than them, I remember working on my first T bucket, I borrowed to buy it, drove everyone crazy looking for advice, had no room to work, finally got it on the road. Got ribbed stupid by the gold chainers at sunday morning breakfasts, took it personally, got pissed off, sold the car and was immediately convinced to build another by those very same guys.
Do your part, teach what you can, if you bought your car, show it off, take prospects for a drive, do what you can to further the cause, they're young and broke, just like we were.

 

Maybe actually reflecting on our first builds would help, and remind us how much advice from "the older guys" was valued........................................

 

Reliability, you can rely on the thing to behave the way it did last time.
Durability, the thing will last a long time. You might have to fix it or adjust it from time to time, though.

It used to be, the only way to get enough reliability to avoid a bad reputation was to build in a lot of durability. Since electronic control that hasn't been the case. Electronic controls will keep self-adjusting until the limits of self-adjustment are exceeded, and by then the thing is generally worn out. And because the thing is designed to be electronically self-adjusted there is no built-in facility to adjust or repair the thing.