Hot Rods The Belly Button Bucket Build Thread

You're really overthinking this IMO , it just keeps getting more complex by the minute....
I'm trying to save you from yourself !! LOL Ponder this , tf your rear axle assy. moves 1/4-1/2" laterally in the frame , the sidewalls flex more than that , you'll never feel it ...

 

Found this front mount setup. Clean and should fit in your space??. My original thought was to put horizontal on top of housing and not vertical but hopefully you get the idea.

 

Of course I saw it and of course its obvious.
It's also obvious that you stated that triangulating the bars would help locate the rear axle side to side.
It won't....so yeah...back to the build.

Anyway...Tim...i wonder do you have room to use a low telescoping "Y" locator to the bottom of the pumpkin? That would keep the roll center low and would be much less involved if you have room for it.
I do have to agree with 2old2fast though.
Ultimately its all too much work for so little return.

 

Tim, do you have a pic from standing directly over the rear axle looking down? I am wanting to see how much space you have.
What I am getting at is, the following pic of your set up where you had a panhard rod mocked up could work by getting to two pivot points level with each other.
It's kinda tough to explain from my phone without a sketch but I will try if I see a pic from above.
Of course it will not be nearly as wide(long) as an ideal set up, but it could certainly work.



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I know I'm overthinking this, but that's what I do best... my brain does not have an off switch, so I'm just letting it eat at this point. You guys are the innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire.


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Okay, from what I can see you could easily make a drop bracket for the underside of driver side rear kick up. That would give you an additional 6-8" length. Your mounting point on the axle could be scooted a couple inches towards passenger side as well. You'd have plenty of length and it would perform absolutely as it's supposed to.


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Oh, and if your pumpkin rear would interfere, simply use heavy wall DOM and put a bend in it to clear the pumpkin.


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Similar to this


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I sure like your sketches Tim so I'm kinda hoping you don't get it figured out (kidding).
But with your engineering/drafting skills and determination you will get it.
I've been in your position a few times where I just can't throw away all the effort put into something and start over.
A friend of mine built hundreds of custom chassis and I witnessed a few times where he did this same tango as you are doing, it's just part of the learnng curve.
I've even seem some BIG NAME built (finished and painted) cars that had some revisions.
Plenty of logical thinking from everyone and I think some are right about the gaining the complexity. Some may be right about needing nothing back there.
Maybe a trip out to Martys' shop for some face to face discussion is in order, I'd love to run out there with you, he has done a couple of these you know.

 

Just trying to add some levaty.....Older guys will understand .....Don't " RUBE GOLDBERG " it ...

 

I had to install this Y locator on top, being a Bonneville car, hopefully the driver won't be making high speed turns !

 

Marty,
Can you post some pics of this from a couple different angles or if you have let me know where I can view them at? I'd like to archive this for future reference.
Thanks.


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Basic,if you love the look of nice work engineered the hard way,do that fanzy stuff.
If you think the simple way done nicely is best,just understand that after looks of it all,what it really needs to do****,should tell ya how simple you can make a side to side set up for a rear.= How much up an down well it do. If its only around 3in. like most hotrod rear ends,a simple arm from frame to rear of 12in. or so dose just fine,side to side with that will be so small it dose not matter at all=anything fanzyer is for art an over kill.
I designed, built an drove winning racecars for 40+ years,along with some hotrods. Over thinking can work fine,as long as you get to the end you want!!

 

Here is another angle. I can PM some others to you.

 

You want overhead.
Trunk clearance issues solved.

 

You couldn't see how it positioned the axle because I hadn't finished the sketch. After I got done "Rube Goldberging" it, here you go. I'm not feeling too excited about this after finishing the sketch, but I wanted to show what I was attempting to do.




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I get what you're saying, but if the bend goes away from the pumpkin toward the rear of the car it will hit the rear crossmember, so the bend needs to go vertical, like I had it in Rev. bb. The axle mount can't go towards pass. side any further because it will interfere with shock travel. The drivers side mount can't go under the kickup because then the panhard bar would have to go through the shock on that side.

 

How would the horizontal link work with suspension travel? I'm not understanding that. In the second post with the picture, I could see that working.........but I just don't have the room there. RIGHT behind my seat is the 3rd member, and on a hard bump, any extra girth in there is gonna give me the kind of pat on the back I don't want. I do like that setup though. Thanks for sharing!

That is pretty slick. I don't know if I could pull something like that off (also forgot to quote the post that sparked this reply), but that is something to consider.

 

Denny, that's slick - and I like it a lot - but I don't have any room to go forward of the axle on top due to seating area. I like your idea to visit Mr. Strode as I have some wide 5 stuff I'd like to discuss at some point..... Sometime after the swap meet perhaps...

I know from the photos it appears to be a simple run bar from x to y and be done with it, but I'm not finding it to be that simple in reality. Not ready to give up yet, despite the overthinking and over-complication of a basic design.

 

I do have one other idea I'd like to sketch out; hopefully I'll get some time on my next break.... Thanks to all of you for contributing to the thread. It is appreciated even though it probably seems like I'm not hearing what you're all saying. Ha!

 

Maybe??? Better than the other sketches I think. It would need roughly a 2" drop in the middle to clear the 3rd member. Roughly 34" long. Would be far less noticeable in front of the axle down low. I would have to run it through the ladder bar tubes, but with the different mounting holes as shown, I don't see this being too big of an issue.


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I think you got it!


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Oh I like that!
One leeetle suggestion Tim.
A couple welded in thru-frame sleeves to take the stress out of the outer bracket attachment, assuming your frame tubing is .120 wall, it (could) collapse.
Edit
Wouldn't hurt to also make that bracket out of angle to facilitate a couple of attachment bolts on the underside frame wall.
Weld bungs could be threaded.

 

Hey, Tim;
So far, the under pumpkin/u-joint bar is the best version yet, & should work the best n cause the least problems.
One other possibility, *might* be to use/create a "dead perch" for the rear. They make them for the front springs, but should work on the rear also - as long as they 'pivot' from the same side of the chassis. Same idea for panhard bars. You'd get a bit of side-movement but it'd be controlled, & considtant. I'm sure it's been done before, & am curious to see what was the problem(s), if any. & why it won't work.. Granted, it wouldn't be as good as a panhard bar, but I can't see it being worse than nothing.
FWIW.
Marcus...

 

Right there with you, Denny. Since the bar has to have bends, I'm thinking 1" x 0.25" wall DOM tube, and I can use some remnants of that to slide in drilled 1" holes in the sides of the kickup.... 1/2" ID sleeve for 1/2" bolts to go all the way through. As for angle, I'm thinking angle on both sides facing each other, creating a channel to slide over the frame tubing.... give myself a bit of clearance for paint/powdercoat thicknesses....So, slide it into position, run bolts all the way through and voila. Gonna take a short nap as I just got home from work then jump on it.


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Clean & [ my favorite part ] Simple . 1" x .250 . that's off-road stuff , 7/8 x .156 would be plenty..

 

Even with the bends in the tube? That was my concern.


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I would use 1"x 0.25" wall DOM and bend it. Don't miter it.

 

Yes, the smaller tube should be plenty.

 

Tim, What are you using for rod ends ? I have a 7/8 X 2.5" center line bending die. The smaller tube you can get by with, the closer you can get the bends together.