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Hot Rods The ALTERED thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by loudbang, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. Merek Chertkow drove Ed's comp roadster. He went on to drive for the Ramchargers funny car team.
     
  2. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,201

    loudbang
    Member

    Man we are getting some GREAT replies in this thread, slowly filling in the history of them. And can you imagine having people that actually shot some of these cars awesome. Bet when you took it you never though all these years later somebody would be posting it on the interwebs :p
     
  3. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    I've posted some of my old pics in a bunch of places over the years. I'm just glad I'm still here to remember those great days. Whether I get credit or not doesn't matter as long as others enjoy them. Never figured I'd make any money and haven't. lol
     
  4. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    Here is the Bad Habit Fiat getting serviced at Indy '71. Photo by me. That pit-monkey is driver Bob Parmer' Bad Habit Indy 71.jpg s little brother.
     
  5. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    Next up is the Boggs Brothers. Again Indy '71 and photo by me. I believe Steve Boggs is still out there Crew Chiefing. In the background is my old pal Rick Stambaugh, before his Top Fuel and Funny Car days. Boggs Brothers Indy 71.jpg
     
  6. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    One more for now. Here is Mack McCord's car. Indy '71 and my photo. He was always a hard runner. Dig the orange header paint! Mac McCord Indy 71.jpg
     
  7. Great pics Mike! Love these pit shots. Thanks for sharing them.:cool:
     
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  8. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    You're welcome. I have a few more for later.
     
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  9. dubie
    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 698

    dubie
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    Can someone explain why so many altered ran a tube axle with coil overs up front? And why you don't see many daily driving hot rods with this same set up?
     
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  10. Trouble Maker's Tea
    Joined: Sep 11, 2014
    Posts: 818

    Trouble Maker's Tea
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    That's awesome! I love that car...
     
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  11. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    Good stuff. That Bad Habit car was a bad mother back in the day. Glad to know it's still around.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  12. Trouble Maker's Tea
    Joined: Sep 11, 2014
    Posts: 818

    Trouble Maker's Tea
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    That Gorilla car is bad ass too.....
     
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  13. I imagine it's because the altered's only go straight.
     
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  14. chevy57dude
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 5,991

    chevy57dude
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    Well.... Sometimes!
     
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  15. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    Leon Fitzgerald's "Pure Heaven" at Indy '71. That's Leon leaning into the truck. Picture by me. Pure Heaven 2.jpg
     
  16. hotrod mike
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,728

    hotrod mike
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    Vern Moats was another strong Mid-west runner. He rac Vern Moats Indy 71.jpg ed a long time and may still be out there racing. Photo by me at Indy '71
     
  17. NHRANUT
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 883

    NHRANUT
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    from Western PA

    [​IMG]
     
  18. These were fuel altered's in the 60's. Gene Mooneyham's all steel '34 coupe vs Don Argee's all steel '29 roadster.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Trouble Maker's Tea
    Joined: Sep 11, 2014
    Posts: 818

    Trouble Maker's Tea
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    I have no illusion of building a competitive one, but I'd love to build a copy of the Bad News Fiat or the Gorilla. The great thing about the AA Fuel Altered class is the differences between the cars, bodies, motors, ect....
     
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  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,334

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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    from FRENCHTOWN

    loudbang, I appreciate all the effort you put in to post so many memorable (and a few "not-so-memorable") altereds. I would like to add a couple of minor things I noticed:

    I believe Stan Rosen of the Detroit area drove the Altered Ego car.
    The Allied Machine E/A is another shot of David Majors.
    The Cates Speed Shop '33 Willys was owned /driven by Virgil Cates, who met an untimely end when he was murdered. It is not the same entity as the Gates Builders Deuce coupe.
    The green D/A owner was Harry Luzader.

    Keep up the good work.
     
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  21. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,334

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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    from FRENCHTOWN

    dubie,
    Just to elaborate a bit on previous responses, tube axles were used because steering geometry could be easily set for straight-line accelleration. Caster and camber were easily measured with a tube axle setup. With an independent front suspension, found on nearly all modern street driven cars, you get a nice, cushy ride, but bump steer changes from rising and falling front suspension is more prevalent, especially if all the factors that control bump steer are not fully understood. On hard launches when the chassis twists severely from gobs of engine torque this can be a problem. Also, the engines of modern cars are nestled down below the spindle centerlines and hence IFS allows the oil pan to be much lower. Transverse leaf springs swung on spring hangers that could sway and induce bump steer so coil overs and Panard bars improved handling, reduced front unsprung weight, and made front ride height, spring rate and shock damping adjustments much easier and more precise. Hairpins gradually were replaced by 4-link arms so there would be minimal caster change and not put the tube axle in a twisty bind when there was chassis roll. They also allowed the tie rod to be placed behind the front axle, instead of in front of it so correct Ackerman angle could be achieved. Add to this the fact that rack-and -pinion steering boxes for race cars were in their infancy and not generally available used (compared to P&S, Ross, Corvair, etc.) made the straight axle the weapon of choice for most altered builders.

    I find it interesting to watch the current trend of building "street gassers" with straight front axles and cars jacked up high in the air. I wonder if many builders know why altereds and gassers were built like that to begin with?

    I wonder if your follow-up question will be in reference to early REAR suspensions? Well that is an entirely bigger kettle of fish and a book could be written on the evolution of altered rear suspensions (or lack thereof)!

    You may find it interesting to look closely at my latest altered pictured in my avatar. It has a spindly nearly weightless IFS, coil-over mini struts, and rack-n-pinion steering. The rear end is a 4-link, wishbone-centered, sway bar controlled, hung on coil-overs axle. It launches hard and straight with no body roll, with consistently predictable repeatibility. And to the few remaining fans watching in the stands it is probably TOTALLY BORING to watch compared to the wild machines of yesteryear.

    Who was it that once said, "Progress was OK once, but it went on far too long."?

    Good question(s) dubie.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
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  22. The last big innovation in rear suspensions on gassers was 1/4 eliptic springs mounted ahead of the axle. The reasoning was being mounted much farther ahead on the frame, the weight transfer point was picking up weight from the middle of the car and right on back, not just over the rear axle. I don't know how well it worked in practice, but Chuck Finders sure did a lot of 1/4 eliptic up dates for the gasser boys.
     
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  23. dubie
    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 698

    dubie
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    Thanks for the in depth response Frenchtown Flyer. The main reason I asked this is because i am building a 27t roadster on a 30 model A chassis and will be running a chrome tube axle with 4 link up front and coil overs. The rear will be parallel 4 link with coil over. I had seen a lot of altered cars with the same set up, yet not a lot of street cars done up this way and had to ask why. In my opinion, it seems like it would make for a better ride over the transverse spring with shocks up front, I guess we'll find out sooner rather than later
     
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  24. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,334

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Yes, it will ride better than a transverse leaf, and just as important, be easier to fine tune. Check out the front end of the first T I built in the '60s. Corvair coil springs. A poor man's coil over shock setup.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  25. I like that set up! Probably worked real well.
     
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  26. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,440

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Looks like one of the RideRunner intakes.
     
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