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Technical The Ala Kart Suspension: What was George thinking?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MrPhat40, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,065


    Packard didn't use air bags, they had torsion bars front and rear.
  2. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 1,010


    There are a couple of grumpy posters that definitely need more prune juice....
    Rich S. likes this.
  3. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,391

    Staff Member

    how did a question about coil springs with overload bags turn into a discussion about air ride? the ala kart does not have air ride......
    VANDENPLAS, KoolKat-57, Tim and 5 others like this.
  4. Thank you
    And Thank you again
  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,331


    A La Kart has what it has.

    Everyone else only has a semantic argument.
  6. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,641


    I don’t think Barris had anything / much to do with the chassis, I remember reading peters and blackie drove to LA almost every week to work on the truck at Barris shop also
  7. nugget32
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 260


    Dad had them on his 53 Buick.

    Sent from my VS500 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
  8. Guys . . . got to realize Ala Kart, Mysterion, Sillouhette, Beatnik Bandit, etc., etc., etc., are NOT cars, they are fine art. And we are all better for their existence.
  9. LuckySumbich
    Joined: Dec 26, 2013
    Posts: 38

    from Mesa, AZ

    “What’s a coil spring and who the hell is George Harris?” - too much of the classic car community today.
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  10. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,247

    Ned Ludd

    Packard's interconnected torsion bars were intended as an arguably superior alternative to Cadillac etc.'s air suspension. It's brilliant even if it's clear that Bill Allison himself didn't quite understand how it was supposed to work.
  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,992


  12. MrPhat40
    Joined: Apr 30, 2007
    Posts: 91


    classiccarjack and VANDENPLAS like this.
  13. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,082

    from California

    has this car ever even moved under it's own power since being built?
  14. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 413


    See poet #38.
  15. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,218


    air lift was used on 1957 stock cars
  16. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,273


    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  17. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,633

    Atwater Mike

    Yep, 'split' wishbone. BUT! I recall first time seeing Ala Kart in the show. I was aghast at the 30* bent 'bones, wow...Super no-no.
    But the coils were nicely engineered, bracket and parallel-wise...(no visible 'bind'...)
  18. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,633

    Atwater Mike

    CLASSIC EXAMPLE, Gimpy: "Who you gonna believe? ME, or your lyin' eyes?"
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  19. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,709


    If you mean since being built in the mid ‘50’s then the answer is yes. At some point the carbs were changed out for Hilborn stack injectors and one time when it was driven there was an engine fire. I don’t know who owned it at the time but it may have been AMT.
    There was pretty extensive damage, top end of engine, firewall, cowl, paint and part of upholstery.
    I agree on it being a piece of art but it did run and drive. If there had been a Ridler Award back then it would have crushed the competition at that show too.
    On the other hand, since the Brizio restoration it might be a trailer queen, John Mumford has plenty of other cars to drive.
  20. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Engine too small...I once saw a model magazine article with that statement. The writer thought the engine was a chrysler, and it was indeed too small for that, but there were THREE sizes of hemis in different external sizes and no real interchange: Dodge, DeSoto, and Chrysler, from small to large. Barris used the Dodge (or perhaps DeSoto, I'm far too lazy to lookitup!), MUCH smaller in overall size. I'd say from the AMT model they got size about right.
    BUT for AMT getting the size right was an accident...if you look at that era, AMT engines were interchangeable masses meant to fit early Fords in 1/25 and fitting the standard AMT mounts*...if the engine had been a 392 it STILL would have fit the model!
    Suspension by bagged coil would in terms of support have been essentially the same except for the considerable anti-sway help of a properly set up cross spring. Whoever built the Ala Kart chassis knew that and put in Panhard bars, which are hard to spot in the blinding jungle of chrome.
    That chassis is incidentally one of the most accurate Model A setups out there in 1/25, pretty much a standard A-V8 chassis.

    *AND...I believed that when I was 12! I once almost bought a 352 Packard as an engine for my immobile pile-of-junk 32, quite sure that with the available Ford adaptor and the imaginary Hurst mount tabs it would drop right in!
    classiccarjack and lurker mick like this.
  22. Perhaps Bill (@slixauto) Ganahl will chime-in ... back in 2001, Billy was working at Roy Brizio's shop and performed most of the restoration of the Ala Kart for John Mumford.

    ala kart 113_std.jpg
    ala kart 137_std.jpg
    Deuces and Max Gearhead like this.
  23. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,992


    Is that drive the Ala Kart or the Howli Kart? I don't have sound, maybe it says in the audio?
  24. Paint
    Joined: Nov 18, 2005
    Posts: 303


    That's the Howli Kart. No hood scoop and it's an automatic trans.
    lurker mick likes this.
  25. There's no narration in the video ... but I'm pretty sure is was Howdy Ledbetter's "Ala Kart II" Tribute Car (aka the "Howli Kart" named after his daughter).

    Howdy Ledbetter's 'Howli Kart'.jpg
    Howli Ledbetter driving the Ala Kart II (Howli Kart).jpg
    Howdy Ledbetter 1927 Ford Ala Kart II.jpg

    EDIT: D'oh! ... @Paint beat me to it!
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  26. Ma Mopar had them to in the late 50's.........
  27. rudestude
    Joined: Mar 23, 2016
    Posts: 2,791


    stanlow69 and Max Gearhead like this.
  28. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,675

    Kan Kustom

    The original Barris truck ran all around Wichita Kansas years ago back when it was on the show circuit .
  29. sliceddeuce
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 2,982


    Quick disclaimer...I have never built anything that pretty or influential...I never will...But, Some of those build details remind me those pics of porn stars without make-up.
  30. Mr. Mac
    Joined: May 16, 2005
    Posts: 1,947

    Mr. Mac

    I heard about that and I also heard who was driving it but don't tell Starbird:D:D:D

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