Register now to get rid of these ads!

TECH - T5 Countershaft Oiling Funnels

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flat Ernie, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,408

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    One of the items I never see mentioned during the various "bolt an S10 tailshaft on your Camaro/Mustang T5" discussions is that of the countershaft oiling funnel.

    I have maintained that the funnel needs to stay with the tailshaft due to different machining in this area.

    While a WC oiling funnel will go into the pocket of a NWC tailshaft w/o any interference, there will be some minor loss of lubrication to the 5th gear cluster due to leakage around the funnel.

    A NWC oiling funnel will probably not allow a WC tailshaft to seat properly, but nobody ever does this.

    I just happened to have a Mustang T5 out to fix a speedo gear issue & thought I'd snap some pics. From left to right is the oiling funnel pocket in a Jeep NWC T5 tailhousing, a NWC oiling funnel, a WC oiling funnel, & a Mustang WC T5 tailhousing oiling funnel pocket. It's very difficult to tell with pics, but there are different depths to each of the steps between the two pockets as well as different overall shape.

    So, if you're going to swap an S10 tailshaft onto a WC transmission from a Mustang or Camaro, grab the oiling funnel too!

    (This will be added to the T5 tech)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Bringing up an old post, but I think for a good reason.
    Does anyone know if the NWC oiling funnels are available anywhere new, or am I stuck scrounging the wrecking yard for one?
    I picked up a transmission that had the tailshaft housing swap done, but they kept the WC funnel. I don't want to tear up this tranny due to something as simple as this little piece of plastic.
     
  3. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,408

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Since I posted this a few years ago, I've discovered there are variations in the machining between various tailhousings - and they're not the same WC-WC or NWC-NWC. Sooooo....I have to revise my recommendation to use the oiling funnel that fits your tailshaft and countershaft! I believe there's only two funnels, so use what works is probably the answer...
     
  4. Ernie, in the original tech you kept saying to keep the funnel that goes with the tail shaft, but it looks to me you meant tailhousing. Then in your more recent post you refer to a countershaft. Can you clarify this for me?

    Do you change the countershaft when you change tailhousings?
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,408

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Sorry - original post meant to say keep the funnel with tailhousing. The funnel fits into the countershaft, but the machining is in the tailhousing.

    But I've seen variations in machining now. I've also seen converted trans with "wrong" funnels and no apparent damage to the countershaft. I have seen combinations that won't allow the funnel to fit properly and the tailhousing to seat.

    So, I guess my new advise is to be sure and use an oiling funnel - whichever one fits your application....

    The more I play with T5s & learn about them, the more I'm convinced just about anything is possible....I've seen so many variations on things...
     
  6. John boy
    Joined: Aug 20, 2005
    Posts: 109

    John boy
    Member

    I am in the proces of putting an S10 (mechanical speedometer) tailhousing ,on a Mustang T5 (1985 #1352-126). I have kept the oiling funnel for the S10 housing , but with it came a wafer thin bearing that rides up against a flat washer on the countershaft of the original S10 application. This wafer thin bearing is not compatable with the counter shaft of the Mustang T5. Do I just run the oiling funnel without the thin bearing. Any info with someone who has run into this would be helpful.
    Thanks John
     
  7. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,408

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    No, run the bearing if it will fit. If you can't make it fit with the S10 funnel, use the Mustang funnel. I've softened my stance on this a bit - I don't think it matters nearly as much as I once did...
     
  8. dan69
    Joined: Feb 12, 2012
    Posts: 1

    dan69
    Member
    from Calgary

    So the job of the oiling funnel is to lubricate the 5th gear synchro? I have the casing off of a T5 I bought used and there is no oiling funnel and I found three pieces of the bearing race thrust and a slightly damaged wafer-thin bearing still stuck to the end of the 5th gear shaft.

    Now I have to question the purpose stated for this funnel as I checked the normal oil level with the transmission leveled and that level happens to be ~ 1/4 to 1/2" ABOVE the entire hole in the 5th gear shaft that the funnel fits into. It seems to me that removing the entire funnel, thrust race and bearing entirely will PROMOTE oiling for the bearings as the gears are constantly being oiled and there is always positive pressure to every bearing race except for when traveling downhill at 30+ degrees for a long, long time...and in this situation that funnel will also be completely out of oil for the duration as well except for some oil that was in the extension but with the shape of the extension most of any oil up there will bypass that funnel anyways.

    I've emailed a Tremec dealer about getting these parts and if he can't I think I'll just finish rebuilding this NWC T5 and leave those parts out.
     
  9. Hemi-Ron
    Joined: Feb 13, 2012
    Posts: 5

    Hemi-Ron
    Member

    Man does this all sound familiar- I started out with a Camaro Trans NWC and was going to mate up a tailhousing off about a 90 S10 but it had elec speedo so now what. No problem found a place in Texas that reworks S10 tail housings with a mechanical gear port epoxied in the right spot. Perfect Hold on. Not perfect. This housing is not the same as either one of the other two with respect to how the funnel and thrust bearing and washer sit. The housing has a recess for the 1352-070 funnel but the rest of the surface is flat and has no provision to hold thrust washer and bearing. OK so I say to hell with that we'll do the electric thing but that involves drilling out the funnel hole in shaft to accept the thicker funnel. And around we go.
    So when I saw the post about running no funnel I kind of feel the same way. Not sure what its job is as the bottom shaft is well covered in oil.:confused:
    Thinking there are good reasons to buy ready to rock and roll- Money saving is rapidly going out of the window.
     
  10. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,674

    bobscogin
    Member

    I've been down that road. I'd bet the S10 tailshaft housing you had was from a '93-'95 WC S10 trans. They do not have the pocket for the thrust washer that's on the NWC version. You can use a NWC tailshaft housing on the WC, but not vice versa, as you discovered.

    Bob
     
  11. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,206

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Any way to tell if the funnel is in there? Mine's an early 80s T5, rebuilt and not used since. Can you spot it thru the shifter area or the speedo hole?
     
  12. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,674

    bobscogin
    Member

    Nope.

    Bob
     
  13. Hemi-Ron
    Joined: Feb 13, 2012
    Posts: 5

    Hemi-Ron
    Member

    Thanks for the post Bob. We'll keep rolling on it. Like I said - may have to go
    back to electric drive housing and drill out countershaft hole for larger diameter funnel.
    Do you know what the WC housing uses for funnel and bearing/spacer against the WC tailshaft? Seems strange that the housing surface is mostly flat other than the funnel recess.
     
  14. socaljess
    Joined: May 5, 2009
    Posts: 4

    socaljess
    Member

    so is the tail shaft on a nwc and wc the same bolt pattern? can i put a s-10 tail housing on my wc 89 camaro trans? i need the shifter closer to the front of my 66 chevy truck let me know thanks any pics or info on this swap would be a life saver
     
  15. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,232

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I am glad this thread is being updated...but man, does it make my head hurt!

    Ray
     
  16. " I've been down that road. I'd bet the S10 tailshaft housing you had was from a '93-'95 WC S10 trans. They do not have the pocket for the thrust washer that's on the NWC version. You can use a NWC tailshaft housing on the WC, but not vice versa, as you discovered.

    Bob" So, ok, I picked up a T5 ,1993 , out of an s10 . It has an electric speedo, I would like to run my mechanical speedo, so am I to understand an early s10 tail shaft(NWC) will bolt on to my 93(WC) without further modification?
     
  17. Send Bob or Ernie a pm,they may be offline.
     
  18. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,674

    bobscogin
    Member

    Yes, you can run a NWC tailshaft housing on the WC trans, but not vice versa. Your '93 T5 will have the reluctor ring for the electric speedo on the tailshaft. You'll have to deal with converting that to a speedo gear for a mechanical speedo.

    Bob
     
  19. thekasa
    Joined: Jan 1, 2010
    Posts: 9

    thekasa
    Member

    Bob
    I bought a 1990 WC T-5 out a Mustang. If I use the 1992 and earlier S10, NWC tail-shaft and use the oil funnel from the S10, will that work together properly?
    I'm putting them behind a 56 Ford y-block fairlane, with an adapter. A new driveline should correct the difference in lengths. How about the mechanical speedo set up?
    Gorden
     
  20. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,640

    Snarl
    Member


    Everybody: Please note that a tailshaft is not a tailhousing. Use the right terminology or you will get the wrong answers....


    You can't swap NWC and WC tailshafts.


    There is an adapter box made by CableX for $350 that will convert the electric signal to cable drive. Sometimes it's the better option....


    When swapping the reluctor for a worm gear on the tailshaft, you will find that the blind hole in the tailshaft for the detent ball is too big to help hold the clip tang for mounting the worm gear. You will want to make a new smaller blind hole in the shaft for that purpose. Do not try to fill the larger hole in with epoxy, etc...
     
  21. thekasa
    Joined: Jan 1, 2010
    Posts: 9

    thekasa
    Member

    Snarl, if I use the NWC tail housing and the NWC tail shaft and the NWC 5th. O. D. gear, then would this combonation work on the change over ?
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.