Tech: Chopping a 1950 Chevy Fleetline

This chop took about 4 hours on Friday night with about 8 guys, and two solid 12-13 hour days with a dozen or more guys working in little teams and a dozen extra guys to help out here and there. On Monday, roadstar and DITRYT patched in a couple of panels that were still missing. It was compared to a barn-raising several times. I know I never could have done it without the help of many talented HAMBers. Thanks to Dave (Double Clutch) and Evan for taking photos. Extra special thanks to CharlieChop1940, SecaTim, and especially roadstar. And Don who ows Classic Collision in Clinton Twp. (where Rudy works) for letting us use the shop.

I started out by looking at the different ways people have chopped Fleetlines. This thread has some pictures of the different pictures I was able to find.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72325

hotrodladycrusr and DIRTYT kept a live update going on Saturday and Sunday. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77976&page=1&pp=20

Cyclebilly and MarkX had both sent me pictures of their chopped 51/52 Fleetlines. Also, MarkX, bluebrian, and Cyclebilly were very cool about answering dozens of questions. I printed out the pictures to show everyone when we all got together for the chop, so the gameplan was real easy to come up with. The homework made laying out the chop much easier. I wanted to take out 5 inches, but it was decided that we should start at 3.5" and work down from there if we needed to.

First, the car was braced between the B-pillars, and then we tied that brace forward to the firewall on both sides. I tried to build the bracing so that we could get in and out of the car as easy as possible. The rear tirewells were tied together. We stripped the car of the wipers, trim, rear window regulators, wing windows, seats, wiring through the A-pilar, taillights, and anything else that might interfere. The trunk was welded shut to minimize flexing. We taped the back glass to protect it from weld burns.

Wherever possible, Rudy recommended the spotwelds be drilled out from any of the suppports that tied the back seat and package tray (vs. cutting with sawsall). This will make reattaching them easier because I can just plug weld them.

Meanwhile, the major cuts were taped out. CharlieChops1940 had a great method for this. He cut out a piece of what looked like illustration board or poster board that was 3.5" tall and a couple of inches wide... roughly the size of a pack of smokes or a business card. I think the width was the distance the roof would move forward, as measured at the A pillar. With it he could easily tape off the height and/or forward movement of the cuts and not have to use a tape measure.

That card came in really handy when he used it to get the A pillar measurement correct. Since the A pillar is at an angle, he had to take out a diagonal section that would phisically be longer than 3.5", but would cause a 3.5" vertical drop.

He just picked the areas that he wanted to cut (the parts that would most closely match up with each other) and held up the card to measure and mark the cut line. He used 3/4" masking tape to line it out, and drew arrows on the tape to indicate which side of the tape to cut on. The arrows are a really good idea. Really.

More to come...

 

The A-pillars were the first to be cut, then the doors and B-pillars, then the trunk, and lastly the C-pillars that supported the greatest weight. Also, the cuts to separate the top were the ones that would leave nothing to be trimmed off the top. In other words, leave the middle pieces on the car because they'll be easier to cut off that way.

And don't throw any pieces away until you're totally done with the car.

Mark Quill brought the greatest tool, a cordless porta-band saw. A 4.5" angle grinder with a 1/16" cutoff wheel was used in most of the places that the porta-band couldn't be used, or a die grinder with a cutoff wheel. The angle grinder was by far the fastest, but the porta band was very precise. The sawsall came in handy for reaching that last little bit that a cutoff wheel left, like in a corner or something.

We wanted to preserve the rounded look of the rear window openings, so a lot of thought went in to cutting that area. There is a ton of bracing and some double-skin areas back by the package tray/ rear window and they were tough to cut.

Then, when all the cuts had been made, off came the lid. We briefly considered changing direction and making a roadster pickup/ElCamino...
Someone else said T-Tops! Hilarious!

 

Congratulations.

I have been following the threads since you first posted.

Very exciting and helpfull to see more pics of the progress.

Got a few questions. (will probably have more)

How did you handle the trunk latch? (if that is done)

What about the front glass? You getting some cut?

Once the car was chopped and the roof re-placed, were ther any issues with the wheel wells?


Thanks! (I just realized your still posting this)

 

When all the "extra" pieces had been cut out, the cuts were dressed with die grinder with a Roloc disc on it to get them nice and square, and cleaned around the edges for welding. The top was cleaned for welding as well.

Then the top was set back on for a trial fit. We got lucky and it looked perfect! Initially I wanted to get kind of radical and go 5 or 6 inches, but after seeing how well it flowed I decided to keep it as is. Sitting in it confirmed that a lower roof would mean installing a periscope. The front is dropped 3.5" - 4", the back more like 5. The lip of the trunk now meets the trunk floor!

Up to this point, things moved very quickly. Now it was time to start putting it back together.

I'll have to finish this off tomorrow. G'nite!

 

The trunk latch is gone, possibly to be replaced by a "U" bolt in the floor. More than one person has told me that they don't even have trunk latches, and that the weight of the trunk is enough to keep it closed. I'm going to make some kind of striker though.

The front windshield was junk, so I may go with an Olds/Pontiac one-piece. One side had a big hole, the other had been run without a wiper blade for a long time.

The fender valley sits right on top of the wheel well with less than an inch of clearance. I couldn't get a heel dolly behind it flat.

 

Wish I could have done more to help................. Looks great!

 

It turned out real nice. Your a very lucky guy to have all those talented people helping you out. Congratulations, you got a bad ass car!!!!

 

Aw man, me too Mark. Hopefully our paths will cross one of these days. You were a big factor in this even though you weren't there. It's just amazing that all us guys thousands of miles apart could be connected by computer. What a trip, huh?

Cyclebilly: Lucky is right! I'm like Forrest Gump lucky!

 

It looks like a futuristic killing machine! I fukkin LOVE it!

 

Really a good job!!! I'm glad you noted the hours involved, over 300 man hours. Maybe people will understand what an undertaking this is, and why it costs what it does. Again good job!!!!! Wish I could have been there............OLDBEET

 

That's so we can decoy the Sherriff with lookalike cars and while Dirty is leading him on a wild goose chase down Possum Holler Gulch, I can let uncle Jesse out of jail.

Okay, now we had to get the roof just right, then start welding and forming patch panels. airkooled cut up a couple of 2x4s per the instructions of CharlieChop1940. These were to level the roof at the C-pillar. Basically we measured and adjusted the roof, and then made the 2x4s the exact same size to fit in the cavity behind the rear window opening to keep the openings the same size on either side. Like building legs for a table top.

Charlie had to relief cut the A-pillar top and bottom to get them to move in a quarter inch each or so. Same with the B-pillars. He formed pieces for the drip rail and roof by the B-pillar and the vertical part of the B-pillar. Then he tacked the A pillar and started working back. We needed stop-motion cameras to keep up with Charlie because he got things done so fast. I'd turn away for a minute, and poof! Something else was magicly in place. I wish I could have watched him more because there is a lot to be learned from him.

At the same time, Rudy and beatnic started formulating a plan to make the trunk meet up with the splash pan. There is a major crossmember right at the end of the frame, and it was about 3 or 4 inches behind where the trunk lip now rested. Initially, we were going to try to pie cut the existing sheetmetal and roll it over, but that was going to be to nuts, so it was decided that a rolled pan had to be made.

Evan jumped in to help take the bumper and splash pan off. Rudy flattened the sheetmetal around the trunk. Chuck bent a long piece of steel to make a round transition... basially a 90 degree bend , but with a soft corner. Also, another long piece of steel was bent to form a 90 degree angle about 1.5" on a side, to serve as a flange to weld the rolled pan piece to. Rudy shrunk and stretched it to follow the countour of the splashpan, then welded it and DIRTYT gave it a liberal coating of Rustoleum because once it got sealed up, that was the last time it would see daylight.

Next, Rudy started marking where he wanted to pie cut the roll pan, and then traced the shape of the trunk lip on to it and startred cutting tacking and fitting. As he went along, he made passes on the english wheel to smooth the transition even more. The goal was to connect the trunk opening to the splash pan, hide the squareness of the crossmember beneath, and still follow the subtle-sine-wave-like contour of the rear splash pan.

Meanwhile, SecaTim and I started cutting pieces for the rear fenders to meet the trunk/decklid. I forgot to bring bristol board, so we took apart a doughnut box and tried to use that as a template. The doughnuts were safely relocated to a pizza box. Also, I bent welding rod and taped it in every three inches or so to form a shape for the valley that we could look at (62 Wagon's idea). Tim brought his English wheel and used it to make one of the key pieces, a dished piece that helped marry the three complex body lines of the fender, decklid, and trunk.

 

In these B-pillar photos, you can see how charlie used some square tube to make sure the pieces all lined up. He used a farmer jack to push on the tube and align the roof with the lower part of the car. This is how it looked at the end of day one (two if you count friday night). This is about 16 hours in to the project... maybe 200 man hours give or take? It takes a village, boys.

 

This being Tue. is the beast still at Rudy's shop or back at home base? Are you having a beer and bondo bash ...........great tech post!

 

That's an awesome chop, man. I wish I could've been there. What tail lights are you planning to use?

 

The car is still at the shop. I think they have plans to pick it up tonight.

 

Yeah, I still gotta get it. Rudy and DIRTYT got the last couple pieces in place yesterday. I'm supposed to go tonight and get it.

Definately gonna have a bondo bash, but not sure when. The holidays are fast approaching, so I'll have to be crafty. But rest assured, I'll let all you guys know!

 

yea were doing both are cars at the same time that way when every ones shows up again we can put them all to work

 

Looks great, I like the tally of man hours as well. Most people don't know what it takes to do a quality chop.

 

No problem Bryan.............love to come back down to help..........we could all practice slinging the poop on your beast before we start on stickylifer's ride! ..............only kidding bro!

 

Hey Marc, I wasn't a whole lotta' help saturday, totally outskilled, but I think Bondo is within my fabrication realm. If you took more out of that top you might go from being "Stretch" to "Squish". Before it gets too cold, Have Bondo, will travel.

 

looks good and very familiar. You gave me my first shout out on the HAMB. thanks... Glad what little imput i had was useful. You seemed to follow all our tips real well and the final product looks great.

-b

 

Sunday was consumed almost entirely with the trunk area. Plus, there were only a few of us compared to Saturday. Just as well though because everything slowed down as the hardcore fab work was being done. This part is really hard to describe. It was a lot of fit, trim, fit, trim, fit, trim... and a lot of tack welding. Oh, and we ran in to the LEAD. nasty stuff, and it's all over the place. That was heated with a torch, and scrubbed out with a wire brush.

Rudy and Gus kept working on the tail and Tim was working on the fenders/decklid. I began sectioning the package tray and trim reveals. The beltline trim on this car has a raised reveal behind it. The reveal was left alone in the chop to be used as a sort of "blending strip," but that placed the end of the trim at the opening for the trunk becuse of the forward movement of the trunk. That would have looked janky, so I cut out a section on each side and welded the ends back on.

62 Wagon was cutting glass during all of this. This was cool because he has to set the glass on fire when he cuts it! he cut all 4 windows, and he gave me the total hookup. Apparently, he was able to "find" some glass laying around somewhere...

I forgot to mention that during the madness on Saturday, HotRodDrummer converted the front bumper into a one piece, and Mark Quill striped the hood. Fukking fantastic!

Charlie finished one window, but he had to split. I wasn't sure I could pull it off, but Charlie said not to be afraid to grind off whatever you do and start again (which was precisely what I was afraid of). So I finished the second window with DoubleClutch. Fortunately, I had watched Charlie. He taped the A-pillar on, and then clamped a ruler (I used a piece of scrap) on the door to keep the door top supported at the height he wanted. With the top in place, he could measure how much to cut out of the spare door top sections me and Brian snagged form the junkyard.

 

I'd definitely be up for a Bondo party if family commitments permit. You're right about the holidays interfering. Stupid holidays.

There's been some chatter about a CD full of everyone's pics. I bet a lot of people would be interested in getting one of those. I know those printed photos of the "MarkX" chop were handed around the shop a thousand times on Saturday. A CD full of "Marc N" chop photos will be an invaluable reference for other people when they do this. I know Evan and Racer Rick have Fleetlines that still have awful high roofs. But like I said in the other thread, we should chop something easier next time, like a pickup.

I just had a brilliant idea. Fill a CD with all the chop photos, then fill the remainder of the CD with Twistin' Tarantulas tunes. Best seller all the way man.

Oh, by the way, great write up!

 

Badass man, I am glad I could help a little bit at least! I sure learned a lot, I think we should make it an annual event and do mine next year. Did you get the car back yet? I wanted to see pictures of you driving it with no glass and taped on taillights. I also want to see the car now that all the metal work is done, when are you working on it next?

 

Oh, the metal work is far from done. I still have to finish weld the entire thing and weld all the factory bracing back together inside and re-attach the package tray. That's another easy month's worth of work for me before I can slap any mud on it.

 

Here you can see the bumper and the striping I was talking about in that last post.

Chris managed to cut around my billetproof sticker when he cut the rear glass! He's a true pal.

As Sunday afternoon turned into Sunday evening, Tim had to go. Fortunately he stayed long enough to make the other side of the fender valley! I had finished off the windowframe, so DIRYT and I started fitting the pieces and trimming , tacking, and dollying as we worked our way down. You can see the major surgery in the photo, and the piecut we had to make to lean in the A-pillar of the frame.

Stitch welding gets boring really really fast. I really noticed that the size of the gap between panels makes a huge difference in ease of welding butt welds (uh huh huh!... butt welds!). I could easliy burn up a gap of 1/16th an inch, but butted panels were a cinch. I was tacking without a helmet, just closing my eyes, for a couple of hours. The next day, my face felt really crispy. I didn't have a sunburn, but I could kinda tell my face had been deep-fried. What can I say, I saw Charlie doin' it. He's a bad influence! ANyway, I shan't be doing that again without SPF50.

meanwhile, Rudy was cutting and shaping little panels coming up from the rear pan. He would make a template out of bristol board, and then cut the steel out, then shape it, tack it in, and hammer and dolly if he needed to. It's hard to describe how to do this... it really is where this becomes art because you just have to have years of experience behind you to do it. It was quite fascinating to watch, and I wish I could have paid more attention and picked up some tips.

The rear ends of the fenders had the lead melted out of them and then they were piecut to roll them over more.

 

here is was at the end of Sunday. roadstar and DIRTYT put the last couple panels in on Monday. I spent about a grand on the weekend, and we estimated about 300 man hours on the chop. AND, I still have lots of welding to do.

Here are the live up dates that hotrodladycrusr was posting:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77976&highlight=GMB+chop

This was an event I'll never forget. Thanks.

~ Marc