Motion Pictures Supercharged Grand Prix Cars 1924-1939

Hey Fellas, Hoping some of you find this history, as fascinating, as I do. The cars and drivers, may have been a world apart, from America...but I was amazed to learn that Bugatti "borrowed" his DOHC design, from Miller's Indy cars. The engineering and trailblazing was simply incredible, at a time when Henry Ford was still building Model T's and A's with basic 4 cylinder engines...some with no water pump. Truly feel that allot of this technology, was the driving force behind Indy, Bonneville and other high speed track events, in the U.S.
Good film to kick back, on a Saturday night with cold beer or early Sunday morning coffee. Enjoy.
Would appreciate some feedback, just for conversation sake. The sounds of these engines, is worth the price of admission.

 

With further research you will find that the Miller and Offenhauser designs were 'borrowed' from earlier Peugeot engines .

A 1912 Peugeot racing engine:


http://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto...er-most-of-all-of-the-dohc-four-valve-engine/

 

I'm more of a '50-'70s Grand Prix follower but I can appreciate this video. When I think
of early Grand Prix racers my mind goes to the mighty Auto Union and the more nimble
Bugatti Type 35. What fascinated me more as a kid was reading about Nuvolari, Alberto
Ascari, Stirling Moss, Mike Hawthorne, Graham Hill, the Rodriguez Brothers and so
many others.

 

A good film that shows some of the great hardware of the era. As to X 38's point, there was a whole lot of copying on both sides of the pond. What the genesis though of the ideas of the greatest racing engines of all time will probably never be discovered in it's entirety.

As much as I am a huge fan of the Peugeot racing cars of the teens, they were not the only developed racing engines and you only have to go look at the results of the 1914 GP at Lyons France (last race before the great war), when the 3-SOHC racers of Mercedes took the top three spots.

A question I often raise to myself but have never solved is where did the Charletans (Goux, Boillot, Zuccarelli, Henry) that designed the Peugeot twin cam that X38 alludes to get their ideas from. If I had to make a guess I believe they owe more than imagined to Louis Verdet and Gratien Michaux who sadly have been somewhat ignored in the history of the modern racing engine genesis.

Every time I try to research these two men I stumble across articles written in languages I cannot understand. If any of our HAMBers from across the pond know of good articles on both of these men in English I would be most appreciative.

In the meantime in my 4 part AACA article on the Miller SOHC four of the teens, I gave credit for the design to Gratien Michaux, where I believe it belongs instead of Peugeot or Delage. I would hope the Miller/Offy "historians" would start to give some credit as well but it may be easier to just say that the Peugeot is the genesis and forget that research is exhausting.

 

I am always happy to see more of the roots trail.

 

Jimdillon and all others, glad you share the same passion, in this history, as I. Despite this forum coming off as a vintage Hot Rod and Customs format, I feel it necessary to understand where some of these pioneers took their ideas from. Indy used to be a huge deal, within the entire car community. Young dirt track demons, dreamed of someday making laps at the Brickyard.
JT

 

I found it very interesting when I read how Vittorio Jano's supercharged Alfa Romeo 8C engines of the '30s had intake and exhaust valves of the same size. The engines were designed from the start to be supercharged, and that arrangement allowed less restriction on the exhaust side.

Also interesting is the way supercharger mounting practices developed roughly along national lines. Most put the supercharger in the obvious place, i.e. alongside the block above an updraught carburettor, and most often drove it by a chain; but the British were fond of the front-mounted supercharger poking out under the radiator, which put the carbs out in the elements between the frame irons. German manufacturers likewise often preferred to place the supercharger vertically at the front of the engine, driven by bevel gears, as their lingering tradition of V-shaped radiators left a perfect space for it.

 

As to my point that we continue to uncover more history (and some is already gone like the wind), a few years ago this engine pictured below showed up at an auction of an auction group called Yesterdays that auctions motorcycles and related parts. (credit Yesterdays on the photos).

This engine was put up for auction and sold. It may never run as it is missing a few parts but it is quite interesting as it is an Aries desmodromic engine from 1908. The description for the auction was as follows:

Ariès Single cylindercyclecar racing engine 1908
100x180mm
Water-cooled
Capacity ca 1413 cc l
Double ignition, 2 contact points
4 Spark plugs
Overhead camshaft
Desmodromic 4-valve
Pré compressed mixture entering via
rotating sleeve valve
Height is approx. 84 cm

For those not all together familiar with desmo setups, in a conventional engine the valves generally have a valve spring that closes by the pressure of the spring as the rocker rides on the camshaft lobe on the one end and the top of the valve on the spring side. In a desmo setup the valve is closed positively with levers and or a separate closing cam (or other mechanical means). That way you do not have to rely on a spring that may fail or float. That being said, some desmo setups add a light spring to aid in closing.

The Peugeot and in some literature the Delage were given credit for the first desmodromic valve operation in a “modern” engine although I had believed there may have been others such as Michaux as he adopted in his 1914 SOHC GP Schneider. The Engine depicted by X38 is a twin cam with desmo operated valves two of the principles that made it quite successful.

I have corresponded with Sebastien Faures and he sent me a copy of an article he co-wrote on the 1908 Aries which may very well be the first desmo setup for racing purposes. There also is some literature that goes back years before that with potential desmo setups.

Another feature of the Aries racing engine was a supercharging effect which I found to be quite interesting. Supercharging was not new in the 20s racing cars but had been refined to an extent for their use during the era. During the Great War era (1914-1918) airplanes were being used in battle and supercharging was being studied for use in aero. I have an article in a file somewhere on supercharging and turbocharging for use by an engineer by the name of Sherbondy (I forget his first name momentarily). As to its use in racing I may have to do a bit more research before going out on a limb with statements that I cannot back up. The Aries “supercharging’ was described by Sebastien and his co-author (Henk Cloosterman) as follows.

“… the desmodromic distribution was not the only outstanding feature of the Ariès engine. A supercharging system on a 1908 car is worth more than a few words. In the crankcase is a metal plug which fits precisely under the piston. In that plug one can see two milled cross-sections: one smaller arm for the connecting rod and one broader arm for the piston pin. When the piston goes down, the air under the piston is pressed into the small crankcase. This air is pushed further through timed holes and builds up a pressure higher than the atmospheric pressure when passing above the piston, where it can also be used for better scavenging. Compressing air in this way had already been patented six years before, by a certain Mr Lefebvre in July, 1902 (ref FR322897). But while the shape of the plug in the Ariès engine matches the patent perfectly, the scope of the latter was limited to two-stroke engines.”

Excellent research indeed and some may consider rambling-but thought some may find it interesting.

 

Mind blowing technology for 100 years ago

 

Thanks for posting the link to that video

 

I think this will be another time waster just like the cyclecar and pre-war racing threads, and I love to see it. In my opinion, without understanding the history of car design it is impossible to understand where we are today. The more you learn the more you realize nothing is new, or at least very little. It has all been tried before.And these guys were designing by the seat of their pants trial and error. Thanks Jakespeed63 for starting this interesting topic!

 

Great video! So impressive- 500+ horsepower in 1936 and speeds up to 200 MPH. Love looking at some of the neat performance styling cues in these works of art...

 

Last week I watched
The Quick and The Dead, , all about ‘73 Grand Prix season. Bittersweet film
Hi-Tech/sweet sounding machines and young good looking talented fearless drivers. Despite having 10 times more safety equipment than these “jalopies”, more than a few never got to see the checkered flag


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

BTTT

 

Almost forgot this old one!!! BTTT

 

Yeah, 4 years ago. May have to re-watch this tonight, over a cold beer
Thanks