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Projects Straight 8 RPU build thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bobbytnm, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    I didn't think of that. Oh well, It's too late. I ground the tip of the bolt to a rough point this afternoon. I loosened the hubs on my 1940 banjo without any issues so I'm going to call this hub puller a success.

    When I got home from work today I had a package on the porch. I had found a ball mount section from a Model A front wishbone, the type where the wishbones are spread apart a bit at the ball. Hopefully this will keep me from having to pie cut my wishbones to bend them in a bit

    IMG_5064.jpeg
     
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  2. Dan in Pasadena
    Joined: Sep 11, 2009
    Posts: 857

    Dan in Pasadena
    Member

    If necessity is the mother of invention, then
    Poverty is the mother of necessity!
     
  3. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    I managed a little bit of garage time this weekend. I used some poster board and a few frosty beverages to make a template for the 35/36 wishbone brackets. Then I clamped my port-a-band to my bench and started carving out the brackets from some 3/8"x4" flat bar.
    I couldn't finish them up since I couldn't find my 2 3/4" hole saw. Either I misplaced it or loaned it to someone, either way, I got tired of looking for it. I'll use transfer punches to mark the bolt holes and once I find my hole saw I'll poke some holes and get these finished up and ready to weld to the '40 banjo.

    baby steps, but its forward progress
    Bobby IMG_5074.JPEG IMG_5076.JPEG
     
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  4. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,143

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Great start, but you will need a kind of oval hole to go thru that plate as your radius rods I assume will be on a slight angle to meet at the center of your tranny mount location.
    Maybe a die grinder could help you tailor out the final shape to fit.
     
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  5. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    fiftyv8, yea, I figured it would take a bit of massaging to get the angle right. My plant is to drill it out with a 2 3/4" hole saw, notch it to fit over the axle tube and then "massage" it to fit the angle I'll need. I'll kind of have to play that part by ear as I'll need to cut the wishbones down to length and mate them to the Model A ball mount.

    That might take a bit of planning (which usually entails sipping some frosty beverages, pacing back and forth and furiously overthinking things)

    Bobby
     
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  6. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,603

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

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  7. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,823

    Inked Monkey
    Member

    They do look nice but $40 for something he just made? I like it when people fab their own stuff.
     
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  8. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,603

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I do too, he did a great job and I am certainly not discouraging it (I probably should have been clearer about that, still on my coffee).

    I'm just sharing in case he or someone who reads this thread gets frustrated with it or doesn't want to budget their time into fabbing that particular piece. Personally, I don't yet have great tools for cutting big holes into steel once it gets up to 3/8" so, in my case, making these would take me about most of a day in the shop (with my luck) which, to me, at this point, is worth A LOT more than $40 + S&H since I usually only get 3 of those in a month.
     
  9. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    patmanta,
    thanks for the link. Yea, I found several people that make the wishbone brackets for both 3" axle tubs and 2 3/4" axle tubes. I came this close to ordering a set but in the end I decided I'd try to fab them, if I screwed them up then I could order them as a back up.

    I don't have any special tools. I do have a full standing drill press and a Millermatic 135 and basic hand and measuring tools. For making holes in steel I've had good luck just using regular bimetal hole saws in the drill press. When you start getting into thicker material, anything thicker than about 3/16" you just need to keep an eye on it while drilling and not let the chips build up in the kerf. If the chips build up they can quickly bind things up and or destroy the teeth on the hole saw. Take your time, go slow, and blow the chips out often.
    Oh yea, clamp the material being drilled down. Too many times I've been lazy and just decided to hold it by hand, too many times its spun away from me when it catches. Its almost like its some kind of machine or something....lol.

    Bobby
     
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  10. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,174

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Used bimetal hole saws for my intake and exhaust manifold plates and poking all the holes in my front axle on the HA/GR project. Just run them slow, use lots of oil and like Bobby said, keep the chips cleared out and they will work fine. Keep the parts clamped down well and you shouldn't have any problems.
     
  11. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,603

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I've actually probably got more gear than you do but I think my problem is that my drill press is a joke! I've never been satisfied with the integrity of the chuck (hole saws seem to walk in it on steel) and it does not have the power I crave. I also need to invest in better bits (or start pitching/sharpening them as they start to dull).

    I've got the Hobart 140 and I love it but I'm a bit jealous of your Miller!

    If you get stuck, I'd say talk to RJay's about the brackets and tell them exactly what you're doing and they will make sure you get what you want. It's a small shop and not a big box supplier! They make most of their stuff and will do custom orders. I've had them bend up brackets for me in the past because I still don't have a press.
     
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  12. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    My drill press isn't the best. Its a Harbor Freight special that I bought about 18 years ago. If you're patient with it it will do OK. I think the big problem with a hole saw "walking" around a bit is mainly in the hole saw itself. Either type; the cup that just screws onto the arbor or the cup that screws on and has the 2 alignment lugs, seem to have a poor interface and create a bit of wobble.
    I have a basic set of bimetal hole saws that I bought as a kit from Craftsman years ago and I also have a set of expensive Milwaukie hole cutters that an electrician buddy gave me when his company was shutting down.
    [​IMG]
    They work really good. I've used them on 1/2" plate but you have to come at it from both sides to get all the way through.
    When I was buying a welder I looked at the Hobarts, Lincolns, and Millers. I opted for the Millermatic because you could fully adjust the voltage instead of just having the 5 or 6 preset detents.

    Bobby
     
  13. Jorge cardozo
    Joined: May 30, 2019
    Posts: 8

    Jorge cardozo

    Hi , Bobby ,i've just seen today this part of your build , i was going to ask how your transmission adapt came out , but you are all the way past that.
    I suppose it works just fine.
    And i love the rest of the frame y transmission support build , i will be using as a guide when is time to build my own frame.


    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  14. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Jorge,
    Thanks for the interest. The trans adapter appears good so far, it bolts up and the transmission appears to line up and bolt together. I haven't had the flywheel redrilled for a modern pressure plate or bolted a clutch disc up yet, nor have I had the engine running since I made the adapter, but I'm pretty confident that it will all work.

    Bobby
     
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  15. Jorge cardozo
    Joined: May 30, 2019
    Posts: 8

    Jorge cardozo

    Am sure it will work perfect, i 've read your expierience building cars , keep going its going to look fantastic !!

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  16. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    I managed a little bit of garage time today so I continued with the wishbone axle mount brackets. I used a 2 3/4" hole saw to poke out the center holes. Then I used a transfer punch to mark the bolt holes and drilled them out to 1/2". I'll need to slice the top of the bracket off so that I can slip it over the axle tube and I'll need to use a grinder to "waller" out the center hole so I can get the right angle for the wishbones.

    Baby steps and not very exciting but its forward progress...

    IMG_5402.jpg IMG_5404.jpg
     
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  17. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    It's been awhile and I don't have much to report. My progress has slowed to a snails pace. Sometimes life just gets in the way...

    Here's what I got done. I got the 36 banjo out from under the chassis. I need to pull the drums and wrap the axle stubs to protect them and put the thing out back in the parts pile. I drug the 40 banjo our from the parts pile and brought it around and stripped the wishbones and brake lines off of it and now have it under the chassis. I used my homemade hub puller to break the drums loose in preparation for replacing them with the wide 5 drums.
    I also cut the slots in my wishbone mount brackets. Its going to take a bit of grinding to fit them to the axles but I expected that, no biggie.

    So, the 40 banjo has the spring mount as part of the hub assy. The 36 wishbones have the spring mount as part of the wishbone. What would be better; cut the spring mount off of the wishbones or cut the spring mount off of the axles?
    My initial thought is to cut the spring mount off of the wishbones, as that would give me a bit more flexibility on where I can weld on the wishbone mounts.

    IMG_5666.JPEG IMG_5667.JPEG IMG_5668.JPEG IMG_5669.JPEG
     
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  18. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Wow
    I can't believe I haven't had anything to post since August. Where does the time go?
    Even now, not much to post. I have made a couple of steps. Even though they are baby steps they were quite a hurdle.

    When last we met I was busy fabricating wishbone mounting tabs for the banjo rear axle. I have the brackets made but not yet tacked in place. I figured I better get the spring mounted to the rear axle and the rear axle in the frame first so that I could get a better idea on where the wishbones are going to live.
    I played hell last Sunday beating the old spring bushings out of the spring and the carrier. I installed new spring shackles. Then I had to figure out how to get the spring mounted on the axle.
    I took the spring pack apart. I put some lumber across the top of the frame and with a ratchet strap on each side of the spring I was able to get it spread out enough to install the shackles. After that I set the rest of the leaves in place and cranked them down with a couple of big spring clamps and got it all in the frame...whew.
    This afternoon I pulled the wide 5 drums off of my 1936 banjo and put them on the 1940 Banjo so that I could bolt my tires and wheels in place. Looking good.

    My next big adventure will be to roll this mess outside and do a major cleaning on my workspace. Then I will roll it back into the garage nose first so it will be easier to work on the rear suspension. Then I can get the whole wishbone thing figured out. Man, this rear suspension is taking its toll.....

    Here's a couple of pics, you can see what a mess I have going...ugh

    IMG_6042.JPEG IMG_6043.JPEG
     
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  19. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Situation normal.... ...one step forward, a couple of dozen steps backwards.
    I've been doing a lot of "hand wringin" and worryin, and driving my self crazy with this whole rear suspension thing. Part of the problem is that the 40 Banjo has the spring mount attached to the end of the axle tubes. The 36 wishbones have a spring mounts cast into them. So, I either had to cut the spring mount from the 40 axle or the 36 bones. Either was a no going back commitment.
    Well, today I took the plunge and cut the spring perches from the 36 bones. No going back now. My plan was to cut the spring perches off, bolt the bones to the 36 banjo and then weld a piece of scrap across the bones to maintain the correct width. Then I could take the bones, bolt my fabricated mounts to them and clamp in all in place on my 40 banjo. A good plan, but it won't work.
    I tried to mock it up and the wishbones would have to be pie cut to bent in a bit to line up with the Model A ball end. If I put more angle into my fabricated axle brackets the wishbone mounting bolts interfere with the axle tubes.

    So, after much contemplation I think I have a solution. I'll refabricate the wishbone to axle tube mounting brackets to lower the mounting point a little bit. This will allow me to put more angle to the wishbones without interference with the bolts and will let me use the bones without having to pie cut them. Once that is done I can then cut the wishbones to the right length and get them splice to the Model A ball mount and get this danged thing all bolted together.

    Bobby

    IMG_6388.JPEG
    temporary tacking the wishbones together to hold the dimensions...
    IMG_6389.JPEG
    no going back now

    IMG_6391.JPEG
    wishbones need to come together a bit more to meet up with the Model A ball mount
    IMG_6392.JPEG IMG_6393.JPEG
    if I lower the rear of the bones about this much it will allow me to put more angle into the bones without the bolts or the mounting ears hitting the axle tubes
    IMG_6397.JPEG
    I'll have to shorted the bones about 16"
     
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  20. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,197

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bobby,
    Looking good. You did commit yourself and it looks like it is going to turn out just fine.
    Good to see you the other day...now it is my turn to come see you!
     
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  21. Greg Rogers
    Joined: Oct 11, 2016
    Posts: 315

    Greg Rogers
    Member

    Great work, just read entire thread, I'll be following along.
     
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  22. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Thanks guys!

    Larry,
    yea, it was a little nerve wracking taking the port-a-band to the wishbones but I'm glad I did. Now at least I've passed out of the "hand wringing" stage and have fully entered the "recovery" stage. I'm better in the "recovery" mode as now I know what has to be done.....LOL
    I'm hoping to get some garage time this afternoon. My goal is to get some cardboard templates made so I can start re-fabricating the wishbone to axle brackets.

    Bobby
     
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  23. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    I was able to sneak away from chores for a bit today and get some garage time.
    I did a bit of eyeballing and measuring and transferred everything to some poster board. I ended up lowering the wishbone mounting point 1 3/4".
    I couldn't go any farther because I don't have enough 3/8" material laying around. Hopefully I can get some picked up this week.
    Bobby

    IMG_6437.jpeg
     
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  24. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    It sure is a lot easier to work when you have a clear cut path.
    I picked up some 3/8" plate today while out running errands with the wife. Once I got home I did my lay out then drilled some steel, cut some steel, ground some steel and managed to make a couple of wishbone to axle brackets.
    Woohoo! things are shaping up and this is going to work after all.

    IMG_6441.JPEG IMG_6442.JPEG IMG_6443.JPEG IMG_6444.JPEG
     
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  25. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    A few more little teensy steps forward. After measuring, head scratching, measuring, measuring, measuring, a little more heady scratching and some more measuring I cut the wishbones down to length.
    Now, I'm really committed. It's going to work.
    I need to take the ball mount and clean out the inside diameter to accept whatever I'm going to use for a splice between it and the wishbones. I'm guessing either 1" pipe or 1" round stock.
    Then I'll just need to hold the banjo at the right angle to maintain the correct pinion angle, hold both the wishbones and wishbone brackets at the correct angle and orientation to the axle tubes while holding the splices at the front of the wishbone to the ball mount in alignment...
    ...what could possible go wrong?

    IMG_6453.JPEG IMG_6454.JPEG
     
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  26. Glad to see you making some progress on this. Keep it going!
     
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  27. maybe just tack those brackets on the rear until you get the frame fully loaded?? Just saying, be easier to make an adjustment that way.
     
  28. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Thanks Scott. Hope to have a rolling chassis soon...

    That's a good idea, thanks
     
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  29. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    I haven't quite crested the hill for this rear suspension, but the peak is in sight and the climb has gotten a bit easier.

    I cleaned up the ends of my Model A ball mount and fabbed some pins that I can use to splice between the ball mount and the wishbones. Now I need to get some final measurements for the wishbone lengths, cross drill the ball mount and wishbones for some plug welds and then glue this whole thing together.
    I think I'll do as suggested and get the ball mount and wishbones joined up as a unit and then tackle the wishbone to axle brackets.
    My goal is to have this portion of this done by the end of the year (famous last words.....)

    IMG_6506.JPEG IMG_6507.JPEG IMG_6508.JPEG
     
  30. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    bobbytnm
    Member

    To continue my prior metaphor....
    I am a few small steps away from the crest of the hill and will be sliding on down the other side shortly.
    I did some more measuring, cutting, trimming, fitting, finagling, hand wringing, cussing, etc and think I finally have everything ready to go. I cross-drilled the Model A ball mount and dressed the ends so that they are ready for the splice pieces. I trimmed down the length of the wishbones, cross-drilled them, and dressed the ends so they are ready for welding. Then I fit everything back in place and made a bunch more measurements. Today I'll get it all tack welded together. On Wednesday I've made arrangements to take the whole mess over to my buddy's shop to burn it all in place (I'd rather use his larger welders instead of my little 110V unit).
    So, by Wednesday I should officially have a rolling chassis!! Woohooo!!!!

    IMG_6570.JPEG IMG_6571.JPEG
     
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