Well, since you live in Detroit, you ain't going to be able to see that intake at the Petersen anytime soon. Or at least that's what I thought... Then I see it in a photo on a different, newer thread here on the HAMB. Here's the link for that photo. Six carb goodness... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=144101
I've got the original article on that motor/intake in the 1956 Hot Rod Annual; it is truly a schweet piece. Log style manifolds were in vogue from about '55 - '62 as an adaptation of flathead carb tech to high revvin', high volumetric efficiency OHV motors. Problem is, a log manifold has sucky midrange characteristics; it really only works best when applied as an on/off switch - or most of the carbs are blanked off for street use. The trick to multiple carbies is to set them up with a progressive linkage - or dedicate a single venturi to a single engine port. This is needed to maintain the correct vacuum signal in the carb; this is the key to effective fuel metering. Big carbs/multiple carbs on small motors can be done, but they are absolute buggers to set up to run right. Last custom setup I did took three weeks of sorting out to get right; the motor would 'fall' on its nose and smoke to high heaven every time the throttle was tipped in.
Chuckspeed, Looking at that log intake again, it got me to thinking about other options. Do you think 4 side-draft weber style carbs would work on the Buick? Each weber would go to one of the siamesed intakes. You'd still have a decent amount of room for a nice set of headers too. Not trad in the strictly American sense, but it seems like it would work and alleviate some of the problems with drivabiliy you speak of. Of course, I also have the fevered imagination to think of a Buick straight 8 with a homemade mechanical fuel injection system for the street...
I'd think 2 side draft webers (they're two barrel units, y'know) - one for each intake port - would work okay. The other option is to go with motorcycle constant velocity carbs like Scotch is doin' on his motor. the CV carbs regulate orifice area via differential pressure; you might be whackin' the throttle plates open, but the slide opens only as fast as the motor will take the air. Poor man's fuel injection; a CV carb can be oversized and still work well. I put a pair of 30mm Keihin CVK's on a motor displacing 650 cc's that had a 26mm carbset on it - the mod woke it up. Each hole on a small str8 Buick displaces about 525cc's, so a 30-32mm CV carb would work just fine. Best bet would be to find an intake manifold off of a Suzuki GS 1100 and yoink the carbs, fab up four standoffs along with a spreader on the linkage rods. Hang the carbs using Mikuni spigot mounts from Sudco, and cap the carbies with louvered pancake air filters. It would have the vintage 'look' yet be extremely driveable!
Got any pics of what this might look like? Obviously, you probably don't have pics of this set-up on a Buick, but at least on a motorcycle? Curious about the "vintage look."
this shit is amazing to me. the knowledge & research that some of the people on here have & have done is out of this world. i have a 51 special, 2 door sedan than i plan on driving cross country someday with a 263 S8 & you guys have touched on every idea ive had and then some. im probably going to build mine a little more tame, taking reliablility & longevity over power. although, i have thought about the CV carb idea. ive been into motorcycles for a while & have rebuilt every carb on every bike that ive had (except for the EFI on my new triumph) & thought about the siamese CV carbs on my 86 honda shadow v twin 700. the linkage between the 2 carbs was actually really cool. the carbs sat in between the 2 cylinders, rather than on the side like an HD. they were basically a mix between down & side draft carbs because they sat at a 45 degree angle, but 90 degrees from on another & one single cable worked the linkage that pulled both throttle plates open. 2 pairs of these carbs would look really wild on this motor because the intake runners would come up at 45 degree angles & meet each carb individually....i gotta go make some sketches! (kinda like this: /~\ /~\ ) damn!! you guys really got my brain goin! i love the hamb! here ya go - i found a pic of that carb setup, mounted on the bike. you can see that its 2 individual CV carbs - 90 degrees from on another - working off of the same throttle linkage. would look pretty wild running down some tubing into a straight 8.
Do the S8 Buick engines that you guys are raving about have more of a rodding history than the S8 Poncho or Olds engines? Are they better engines? I've had my eye on a late straight 8 flat poncho with the high compression head for a while, and am really temped to haul it home (complete with automatic tranny); But if they have inherent design problems, etc. or are inferior in some major way to the Buick S8, then maybe I'll keep looking.
saw i straight 8 buick powered altered at the flathead inliner drags in denver few years ago was turning high 9's around 130 believe me he was turning way more than 4K the block had a few patches in it to replace the windows the rods left the sound [roarrrrr] of this car launching was fantastic
I really don't know about the big flattie 8's other than the Packards and Hudsons. Generally speaking, flat str8's were developed in the mid 30's and did not have full pressure lubrication (hudson's 8, for example) and suffered from breathing and compression (lack thereof) issues. The biggest issue (for me, at least) would be the crank. A long crank has to have lots of support to minimize 'whip'; some of these old motors were lacking in this area. Senior packards were the exception - their large 8's had seven aor nine (!) main bearings for rigidity depending on the motor. To offset the compression/volumetric efficiency issues, I've been noodling the application of a centrifugal blower to one of these motors. It's been done before (kaiser-frazer flattie 6) with good results, so forced induction could be a way to wake one of these motors up - as long as the rotating elements are up to the task.
I know those carbies - I went thru a set this spring for a guy to get his VT 750 on the road. I was thinkin' more along the lines of an early 80's 'Zook 1100. Carbs are all together on a common plate and hooked up with a linkage rod. It may even be possible to use the carbs on the plate and fab up some 1-1/4" tubing in a series of s bends to bridge the offset between the intake ports and the carbies. These things come up for sale at M/C swappies for about a hunnert bux; cheap speed - and I'm all for that!
About 3 or 4 years ago at the Portland roadster show was a 32 Ford roadster with a straight 8 buick. Was street legal but originally built as a Bonneville car. Owner said he had set some records with the car some of which still stood at the time. The owner was a real nice guy, was from Calif. I think. Raced in XX/STR #186. I have 2 pics of the car that I can email if desired. Nice to see all the interest in non SBC hotrods. Ted H [email protected]
The reason S8s were more popular with rodders is the OHV design. Most of the engines right after WWII were of the valve-in-block (flathead) variety and the valve-in-head (OHV) design simply offered much more performance. It's why the Kettering Olds V-8s ruled the streets when they first came out, too. FYI- My 263 project is still moving forward but is not complete yet. My cross-country relocation project took precedence. I will be getting back into the 263, but I was forced to finish up my 87-octane 383 Chevy project (545 hp! woo hoo!), and my 601ci Pontiac should fire in January after lengthy effort on the part of many. Once the Poncho is dialed in, the Buick is on deck. Once the Buick is done...well, I don't want to say what I'll be jumping into next. But, it'll be vintage, and it'll be badass. In the meantime, know that Ross now has Buick S-8 high-perf pistons in their computer files, and they are bitchin! They'll work with stock rods! ~Scotch~
That's awesome. Just as an FYI, I think the 164" Corvair engines have the same size cylinder bores as the big 320" straight 8 Buicks. With a little work, I'm sure any of the number of custom high-po Corvair pistons could be adapted for use in the big Buick. They's probably save quite a bit of weight too. If it's not the 164" Corvair, then it's the smaller, earlier mill. Either way, Corvairs enjoys even better aftermarket support than our old Buicks do, so there's probably potential there.
While the 'vair slugs are a good thought - thanks - the ish is engine architecture. Piston pin location (relative to piston crown) is typically higher on modern motors, which means that while the slug may fit the bore, the comp ratio may end up less than 5:1! Also - pin size and config comes into play. Buick str8's use a pinch bolt pin which floats in the piston, where other motors use full floaters. Betcha the pin dia on the Buick is smaller than a 'modern' motor, as the pin would not see the start/stop stress that it does on an oversquare mill which winds tighter.
If only it were that easy... Modern rods are really short affairs; oldster rods are long willowy things by comparison. It's far easier to spec out a custom piston set than it is to have custom rods made, so the economical ticket is to have pistons (like scotch has done) fabbed up to fit the engine's architecture.
Makes sense. What I don't know about engine building could fill the grand canyon. I've always got lots of ideas though. And I'm learning more everyday... Thanks.
My step-Grandad Jim McMillian, raced one. Here are some pics from a guy that I just found out knew him. http://members.cox.net/sprintguy/Jack_Walker.html http://winfield.50megs.com/Cowley/5Sep55.html
Check out my lakester on my site tour with the Buick 8 with a turbo. It has gone 192mph at Bonneville. Set records in 2001 on gas and fuel at 174... mph. BFL and BGL / XO class. We have a company who has the forged pistons for it ready to go now. BBC valves... 7 pounds of boost, (o ring the block) Looking for the 200mph club this year, hopefully 205mph. I plan on driving this car on the street soon too. wil www.sakowskimotors.com
hey, ive got a 48 buick, special model 46s (coupe) (its flat black with flames of course)with a 248 with 2 carbs off a 41 motor. ran it from western maine to the nsra northeast nats last sept. in burlington vermont about 225 miles and got 19.9 miles per gallon!!!!! that motor has unbelievable low end torque,and runs sooooo smooth its hard to hear it running. my buddy and i are building a 41 conv.with a 248 hooked to a 700r4 and a nova 3:55 rear --should go even better than my stock rear with 4.10 gears.id show ya some picts but my computer at home fried ...a old guy at a local garage said the weak spot in them is the cam. they are so long that they snap if you over rev it ,but he had never had to rebuild a bottom end of one...
Sankowski, Any details on your Buick turbo engine? What engine did you start with and what mods have you made? What RPM level are you turning it? I love all this straight 8 talk!
if you dig buick straight eights go to buicks.net and click on the webboard then go to buick straight eight board those dudes are into straight 8s couple of them built some very cool engines
I have more info at the shop. It has Arias pistons, they have them for the Buick 8 ( I think b/c this engine ). It has big block chevy valves.. 7 pounds of boost with the turbo , I will post at the shop with the build sheet. I am hoping to get more time to work on it, then get it on the dyno before El Mirage and Bonneville. Wil www.sakowskimotors.com
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